Ducasse stocks & Jus; Chapel - salt?

[paul o' vendange]

1 hour ago, paulraphael said:

 

Similar idea. The coulis from pre-revolutionary France is just taken to exorbitant extremes. Whole joints of meat are discarded in the name of making a final sauce for a banquette. 

 

It puts things in perspective ... how Classical cuisine (especially idea of the mother sauces and demi-glace) is really a kind of fast-food simulation of the old ways, designed to make a-la-carte dining possible at bourgeois restaurants.

 

Yes.  There's a part of me that wars with a part of me that misses the classical coulis that is disgusted by most elements of haute cuisine.  It's one reason I got out.

 

There.

[weinoo]

5 minutes ago, paul o' vendange said:

It's one reason I got out.

It was my back!

[paulraphael]

18 minutes ago, paul o' vendange said:

 

Yes.  There's a part of me that wars with a part of me that misses the classical coulis that is disgusted by most elements of haute cuisine.  It's one reason I got out.

 

 

That's what I think is so cool about some of the new methods! They replicate pre-classical, extravagant ideas (but without cooking for a whole week and slaughtering whole pastures full of veal calves). 

[AAQuesada]

On 1/15/2022 at 7:18 AM, paul o' vendange said:

And you're earlier description of a sort of hybrid-coulis  process sounds like something I seem to recall Peterson describes, in terms of trying to parse out aromatics given multiple wettings.  Is this where you got it?

I seem to remember this posted here years ago:

 

----------------------------

Beef Coulis 

to make approx. 3 quarts 

This is my substitute for classical demiglace; it's useful when the flavor of a meaty, clean, naturally thickened beef jus is appropriate. It  combines the intense flavor of 17th and 18th century meat coulis with the improved science of 21st century jus infusion (made popular by  Ducasse's and others). It also takes advantage of simple, inexpensive bone stock techniques. Time requirements are similar to Escoffier-style  demiglace; food cost is much less. Similar coulis can be made from any type of meat for specific meals. For meats other than beef, start with  pure veal stock. 

This is a substitute for demiglace, not glace de viande. It is based on a reduction to roughly a third the original stock volume. I prefer it more  lightly bound than most demiglace; greater intensity of flavor, but a thinner consistency, bound by gelatin. It can be thickened further at the  end with arrowroot, if you like, or left loose, for individual sauces to be thickend à la minute. 

I haven't included a stock recipe. Any well made bone stock, clear and high in gelatin, will work. Veal stock or a stock with a high percentage  of veal is ideal. Use your favorite recipe or whatever you have on hand; most of the qualities of the coulis are introduced by the meat. 

Requires 7qt or larger saucepan / dutch oven and a sauté pan. 

(total time about 8 hours)

- 9 quarts / 8.5L veal stock 

- 6 lbs / 2.7kg defatted beef trimmings, beef chuck, or beef stew meat 

- 2-1/2 oz. / 70g butter (5TB)  

- 1/2 medium onion 

- 1/2 celery root 

- 2 sprigs thyme 

- 1 bay leaf 

- 1 small bunch parsley 

- 1-1/2 tsp / 7g arrowroot starch 

- 1 TB / 14ml cold water (approx, for arrowroot slurry) 

-divide meat into three equal 2lb portions. meat will be incorporated in three stages; vegetables and garni will be incorporated in the last two  of these. 

-consolodate stock into one container and place near stove 

Stage 1: 

-cut the first portion of the meat into rough 1" cubes 

-sear in a very hot sauté pan in brown butter (pan should be hot enough to brown the butter by the time the meat goes in). be sure to brown  on all sides. it's ok if beef renders juices and starts to steam; let it cook until juices reduce and brown. 

-add 1 to 2 cups stock to meat, and thoroughly scrape bottom to deglaze drippings. keep heat high and reduce stock until it browns again. 

-with tongs, transfer meat to saucepan. cover meat with approx. 3 quarts of the stock. turn up heat. do not wash sauté pan between stages  (any remaining fond on bottom will help brown meat on following stages). 

-pour off fat frome sauté pan. deglaze with a small amount of water and pour into saucepan. 

-when stock starts to simmer, turn heat low to maintain simmer, and slide pot back so flame strikes off center.  -simmer about 2 hours. 

-skim every 5 minutes for the first 20 mintues, and every 20 minutes thereafter. rotate pan 1/4 turn every 20 minutes. -periodically add more stock to maintain the stock level. it's done when you've used all but 3-1/2 quarts of the stock. -turn the heat very low while preparing for stage 2. 

-remove meat from stock; allow to cool and then freeze. stage should take about 2-3/4 hours. 

Stage 2: 

-cut the second portion of the meat into rough 1" cubes 

-sear as before in butter. 

-deglaze as before with 1 to 2 cups stock; reduce and brown; transfer meat to saucepan and immerse in the partially prepared coulis. turn up  heat. 

-defat and deglaze sauté pan as before with a small amount of water and pour into saucepan. 

-add 1/2 of the thyme and bay leaf. 

-coarsely chop 1/2 of the onion (1/4 onion) and 1/2 of the remaining celery root (1/4) celery root).

-reheat sauté pan over medium flame, being careful not to burn any remaining pan drippings. 

-cook onion and celery root until onion is translucent. 

-add a small amount of water to pan with vegetables and deglaze; add contents to saucepan. 

-simmer as before for about 2 hours, skimming often in the beginning and every 20 minutes thereafter. continue to rotate pan and replenish  stock to maintain level. it's done when you've used all but 1/2 quart of the stock. 

-turn the heat very low while preparing for stage 3. 

-remove meat from stock; allow to cool and then freeze. stage should take about 2-3/4 hours. 

Stage 3: 

-add remaining thyme and bay leaf, and parsely (pin parsely under some of the meat so it stays out of the way) -coarsely chop remaining onion and celery root. 

-reheat sauté pan over medium flame, being careful not to burn any remaining pan drippings. 

-cook onion and celery root in butter until onion is translucent. 

-add a small amount of water to pan with vegetables and deglaze; add contents to saucepan. 

-cut the second portion of the meat into rough 1" cubes 

-sear as before in butter. 

-deglaze pan with water (enough to cover the meat halfway). reduce and brown.  

-repeat with another portion of water 

-deglaze pan with half the remaining stock, and any added water needed to cover the meat half way. reduce and brown.  

-transfer meat to the saucepan. defat if necessary, and deglaze the sauté pan with with the last of the stock. pour into saucepan (there will  have been a total of 4 deglazings; 2 with water, 2 with stock). 

-simmer only 20 minutes or so, this time very gently. start checking flavor and consistency after 10 minutes. skim and rotate pan as before. -remove meat as before. freeze this batch of meat separately; it's going to taste better than the more overcooked batches. 

- test thickness of coulis on a cool plate. if you want to thicken it more, make a slurry with 1-1/2 tsp arrowroot powder and some cold water  (1/2 tsp arrowroot per quart of coulis). whisk in and simmer for 3 minutes. strive for a bit less thickness than traditional demi. test thickness by  spooning onto a cool plate. add more arrowroot if needed, the same way, 1/2 /tsp at a time. simmer a few minutes, and check again. 

- strain through fine chinois or strainer lined with 2 thicknesses of cheesecloth 

- cool in stainless bowls in a water bath, as before, and refrigerate overnight. stage should take about 2-1/2 hours.  

Next Day: 

- defat and warm (to liquefy), and distribute in 1 cup and 1/2 cup increments in ziplock bags, and in a couple of ice cube trays. freeze. freeze  ice cube trays covered in plastic wrap. then individually wrap the ice cubes in plastic wrap and store several each in ziplock bags. ice cubes  are a little over a half ounce—1 cup per tray. 

© 2009 Paul Raphaelson / Underbelly 

www.under-belly.org

[paulraphael]

50 minutes ago, AAQuesada said:

I seem to remember this posted here years ago:

 

----------------------------

Beef Coulis 

...

 

Yeah, that was it. I simplified it a bit over the next few years. Then got a PC in 2014 or so.

 

One thing ... I just use celery now, not celery root. I remember the chef who first clued me into the technique said his executive chef had banished celery from the kitchen, because it added an unacceptable bitterness to everything. They used celeriac instead. I went along with this for a minute, but then did some taste tests and couldn't find anything wrong with plain old celery.

 

Since then I've switched to a 10:1 mix of arrowroot and xanthan.

Edited January 16, 2022 by paulraphael (log)

[weinoo]

48 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

banished celery from the kitchen, because it added an unacceptable bitterness to everything

Interesting - I have  bought celery at the farmer's market - it was definitely different than the standard commercial stuff from Ocean Mist - and definitely a bit more bitter.

[heidih]

58 minutes ago, weinoo said:

Interesting - I have  bought celery at the farmer's market - it was definitely different than the standard commercial stuff from Ocean Mist - and definitely a bit more bitter.

When I grew it it was quite different to supermarket but I think big producers do a blanch grow  so less green and less of maybe the bitter.

[paulraphael]

I wonder if it's one of those things that some people are extra sensitive to and others aren't.

[&roid]

On 1/16/2022 at 7:04 PM, paulraphael said:

 

Yeah, that was it. I simplified it a bit over the next few years. Then got a PC in 2014 or so.

 

One thing ... I just use celery now, not celery root. I remember the chef who first clued me into the technique said his executive chef had banished celery from the kitchen, because it added an unacceptable bitterness to everything. They used celeriac instead. I went along with this for a minute, but then did some taste tests and couldn't find anything wrong with plain old celery.

 

Since then I've switched to a 10:1 mix of arrowroot and xanthan.

Paul, I’d be very interested in your PC  coulis method - we’ve been doing pressure cooked stocks exclusively for the last few years. Like you I find them tastier and easier. Care to share the coulis version?

[paulraphael]

On 2/14/2022 at 4:32 AM, &roid said:

Paul, I’d be very interested in your PC  coulis method - we’ve been doing pressure cooked stocks exclusively for the last few years. Like you I find them tastier and easier. Care to share the coulis version?

 

Here's the basic idea. My earlier versions used more water and needed some reduction; this is an attempt to eliminate or mostly eliminate that step.

 

Pressure-cooked meat coulis / jus de viande

 

1250g / 100% Water.

200g / 15% (approx) additional water

800g / 65% Ground Lean Meat Divide in half. (to save time, grind meat coarsely in food processor)

400g / 30% meaty bones, thinly cut on band saw. for beef, ideally use shin

200g / 15% Yellow Onion, thinly sliced

120g / 10% Carrot, thinly sliced

80g / 6% Celery, thinly sliced

10g / 0.8% Parsley leaves and stems

Lambda Carrageenan (final measurement should be based on actual weight of jus after cooking and straining:

     measure to 0.35%

Xanthan Gum (final measurement should be based on actual weight of jus after cooking and straining:

      measure to  0.07% 

 

 

Day 1

 

-brown ingredients / make reduction. preheat oven to 450°F / 230°C.

add bones, half the ground meat, and all vegetables to roasting pan. Cook until well browned (about 45 minutes). It’s ideal to blacken the onions.

-transfer ingredients to pressure cooker. Pour off fat. deglaze pan on stovetop with half of the small portion of water. reduce until it dries and browns. deglaze with the remaining water. reduce to make a light syrup. add to pressure cooker.

 

-pressure cook. add the raw ground meat and main portion of water to PC. seal lid and let pressurize to 1 bar. turn down heat for minimum venting. cook 2.5 hours.

 

-depressurize under running water. let cool. gently strain bones into a temporary container with a coarse chinois. as much as possible, use tongs or skimmer or slotted spoon to place bones and veggies into the chinois; don't dump it all in and don't press; let gravity do the work. It’s also possible to remove all but the last of the stock with a siphon.

 

-strain again with a fine strainer / chinois, or better, with a superbag. chill overnight in fridge.

 

 

Day 2

 

-defat, reduce, thicken

-skim fat off top of container

 

-Reduction: (Is there significantly more than 1L liquid? If not, skip this step). In a saucepan reduce 100ml to a dark brown glaze, then add another 100ml, scrape sides and bottom, reduce until total volume of coulis is about 1L.

-turn off heat

-add cold unreduced coulis to the saucepan

 

-thicken. weigh final coulis; measure and stir together the gums (if you skipped reduction, heat it enough to liquefy the gelatin)

-disperse gums with a stick blender

-optional: heat on stove to deflate any foam that formed.

 

Or (more work, but better for large quantities):

-place coulis in blender. blend at a speed that makes a vortex and doesn’t splash. pour gums into vortex. cover and blend on high for two minutes. mixture will now be a light-colored foam.

-pour into saucepan. heat over low flame to deflate foam.

 

-chill.

 

-package, store: strain again with chinois, measure into ziplock bags. refrigerate or freeze.

[gfweb]

On 1/12/2022 at 11:24 PM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

But in a pressure cooker the stocks aren't boiling.

 

At a higher temp, but still boiling, no?

And with pressure release the super hot liquid ought to boil like crazy

 

 

[paulraphael]

1 hour ago, gfweb said:

At a higher temp, but still boiling, no?

And with pressure release the super hot liquid ought to boil like crazy

 

 

 

If you do it carefully, you should be able to keep it to a low simmer. Easily if you have a more sophisticated pressure cooker, like a Kuhn-Rikon.

[&roid]

1 hour ago, paulraphael said:

 

Here's the basic idea. My earlier versions used more water and needed some reduction; this is an attempt to eliminate or mostly eliminate that step.

 

Pressure-cooked meat coulis / jus de viande

 

1250g / 100% Water.

200g / 15% (approx) additional water

 

perfect Paul, thank you for this - I’ll give it a go 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

9 hours ago, gfweb said:

At a higher temp, but still boiling, no?

And with pressure release the super hot liquid ought to boil like crazy

 

 

 

In a sealed vessel under constant pressure, vapor and liquid water remain in equilibrium.*  Or so I used to once remember.  Hence no boiling.

 

When you pressure release you no longer have a sealed vessel nor a clear stock.  Don't do it.  Tonight's dinner, Rancho Gordo beans pressure cooking at the moment.

 

 

*At least between the triple point and the critical point of water.  That is, under any conditions that pertain to cooking in my apartment.

 

[paulraphael]

11 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

In a sealed vessel under constant pressure, vapor and liquid water remain in equilibrium.*  Or so I used to once remember.  Hence no boiling.

 

When you pressure release you no longer have a sealed vessel nor a clear stock.  Don't do it.  Tonight's dinner, Rancho Gordo beans pressure cooking at the moment.

 

 

*At least between the triple point and the critical point of water.  That is, under any conditions that pertain to cooking in my apartment.

 

 

I think the question is if typical pressure cookers constitute a sealed environment ... they use a relief valve to maintain pressure. It might be more of a hybrid kind of environment. It likely has to do with why Dave and Nils got significantly different blind taste test results with stocks made in different types of cooker (the winner being a type that maintained a true sealed environment). 

 

I'd assumed the difference has to do with aromatics getting out, but it makes more sense if it's about boiling vs. not boiling.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, paulraphael said:

 

I think the question is if typical pressure cookers constitute a sealed environment ... they use a relief valve to maintain pressure. It might be more of a hybrid kind of environment. It likely has to do with why Dave and Nils got significantly different blind taste test results with stocks made in different types of cooker (the winner being a type that maintained a true sealed environment). 

 

I'd assumed the difference has to do with aromatics getting out, but it makes more sense if it's about boiling vs. not boiling.

 

I use Fissler.  My newer one can operate sealed (at least until the safety valve kicks in) or unsealed.