Knife sharpening

[JoNorvelleWalker]

44 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

Those Chef's choice machines aren't terrible. The important thing is to only use the coarsest slot when absolutely necessary, like when repairing edge damage. It removes a lot of metal and will greatly shorten the lives of your knives. The machine sets bevels at a pretty stout angle compared to what a Japanese cook would choose. Which is to say, it's about durability, not sharpness. It will do pretty sharp but not very sharp—probably a little better than the factory edge on German knives. 

 

Not all Chef's Choice machines are the same.  I have a couple.  The 1520 mentioned above does not have a coarse slot.  It has a 15 degree slot, a 20 degree slot, and a polishing slot.

 

[Nyleve Baar]

I have a Chefs Choice 1520 and I love it. I have absolutely zero interest in learning the fine art of knife sharpening. I am good at keeping my pots and pans in good shape; I know how to season a cast iron skillet; I can wing a recipe for almost anything from scratch. But knife sharpening is something I can't be bothered learning. The 1520 keeps my knives in good enough shape for most of my needs. I have used one of those sharpeners for well over 40 years (this is my second one) and many of my knives were wedding presents (1977). They're still absolutely fine. The machine has not destroyed them so far.

[Dave the Cook]

Our knife sharpener dude is no longer easily accessible to us. I'm not going to learn how to freehand water stones. I used to have a Chef's Choice, but all that vibrating was nerve-racking to me (and I'm not convinced that even the new models don't take off more metal than is necessary. So I'm thinking Edge Pro -- unless something impressive has come along in the last few months. Anything new on this front?

[Margaret Pilgrim]

If you love Chef Choice, you don't have to put up with plugged in vibrations.    I use their hand held model

 

 

[weinoo]

12 hours ago, Dave the Cook said:

Our knife sharpener dude is no longer easily accessible to us. I'm not going to learn how to freehand water stones. I used to have a Chef's Choice, but all that vibrating was nerve-racking to me (and I'm not convinced that even the new models don't take off more metal than is necessary. So I'm thinking Edge Pro -- unless something impressive has come along in the last few months. Anything new on this front?

 

I think Edge Pro is still the thing Dave. That Chef's Choice above I might use on my Swiss Army knife, or perhaps a knife used to cut worms when fishing, but that would be about it.

 

However, I'm giving this place a try, with some rarely used knives, to see how it goes...

 

Knife Aid

 

I paid via the website, they sent a beautiful package with prepaid mailer, and I'll be dropping 5 knives at the post office today. Will report back.

 

 

[rotuts]

@weinoo 

 

interesterested in how this turns out fo you

 

Ive been using EPro for a long long time.

 

takes a few minutes , after seeing some fine EPro vids , to get the idea

 

and , if you are not hassled when you set up and do several knives at a time

 

very very therapeutic.

Edited September 8, 2020 by rotuts (log)

[KennethT]

1 hour ago, weinoo said:

 

I think Edge Pro is still the thing Dave. That Chef's Choice above I might use on my Swiss Army knife, or perhaps a knife used to cut worms when fishing, but that would be about it.

 

However, I'm giving this place a try, with some rarely used knives, to see how it goes...

 

Knife Aid

 

I paid via the website, they sent a beautiful package with prepaid mailer, and I'll be dropping 5 knives at the post office today. Will report back.

 

 

I'll be eagerly checking back on this to see what you think...

[rotuts]

a friend of mine has the CC manual three stage sharpener.

 

it takes a while to get the new bevel angle from the CC gound into your knives.

 

once yu do that , its easier and quicker to use.

 

its better than some systems , once you realize the initial time investment required.

 

its never going to get you the edge an EPro will

 

but its cheaper and easier to use , and better than nothing.

Edited September 8, 2020 by rotuts (log)

[weinoo]

1 hour ago, rotuts said:

Ive been using EPro for a long long time.

 

very very therapeutic.

 

This is quite true.  It's very nice to be able to decide what kind of bevel and angle you want to put on any specific blade.

 

1 hour ago, KennethT said:

I'll be eagerly checking back on this to see what you think...

 

I'm guessing they come back super sharp. One of the knives sent in is a gyuto, which probably has a different bevel than a German chef's knife. I'm quite interested to see how that one comes back. It was mentioned that I use the knife in my left hand; eager to see if they put that type of bevel on it. Otherwise, I'll have to send it over to @paulraphael to work on in his spare time 🤣 .

 

46 minutes ago, rotuts said:

a friend of mine has the CC manual three stage sharpener.

 

it takes a while to get the new bevel angle from the CC gound into your knives.

 

 

 

And you've only removed an ounce or two of steel from said knife.

[Dave the Cook]

Okay, I'm sold on the Edge Pro. Now, which model? We have a combination of American, European (>10 years old) and Japanese knives, if that matters.

[AlaMoi]

I got the 3.  have not used the coarsest stone all that much - but the 1000 frequently to mirror polish on my slicers (brought down to 18')

get the magnet accessory - very helpful.

 

as I recall, 2011 when I bought the kit I priced some of the stones as extra/separate/'maybe later' and decided to go for the fullest kit and be done with it.  never regretted.

 

what's nice about the DIY thing is being able to put  sturdier angle (22') on the chef's / heavy duty knives, but a sharper angle on the slicers.

I use thickness sticks and a 10" slicer to peel off 3/16" thick beef slices for roulladen - also skins fish like nobody's scales.....

[weinoo]

23 minutes ago, AlaMoi said:

I got the 3.  have not used the coarsest stone all that much - but the 1000 frequently to mirror polish on my slicers (brought down to 18')

get the magnet accessory - very helpful.

 

as I recall, 2011 when I bought the kit I priced some of the stones as extra/separate/'maybe later' and decided to go for the fullest kit and be done with it.  never regretted.

 

what's nice about the DIY thing is being able to put  sturdier angle (22') on the chef's / heavy duty knives, but a sharper angle on the slicers.

I use thickness sticks and a 10" slicer to peel off 3/16" thick beef slices for roulladen - also skins fish like nobody's scales.....

 

An early adopter! This one has probably been here as long.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

10 hours ago, weinoo said:

And you've only removed an ounce or two of steel from said knife.

 

Please pardon, but I used to be a scientist.  Tonight I used my Chef's Choice to sharpen my New West chef's knife, which I sharpen perhaps once or twice a year.  The sharpening procedure was three passes each side in slot one (the 15 degree slot), followed by three passes each side in slot three (the honing slot).

 

Before sharpening the New West chef's knife weighed 205.206 g.  After sharpening it weighed 205.183 g, a difference of 0.023 g.

 

[AlaMoi]

I suspect the weight loss was poetic exaggeration.

altho..... my father came up with a old floor mounted water bath grinding wheel, originally peddle powered, which he adapted an electric motor.

used for axes, etc. - but in short order every pocket knife and kitchen knife resembled a steel toothpick....

[weinoo]

23 hours ago, rotuts said:

a friend of mine has the CC manual three stage sharpener.

 

it takes a while to get the new bevel angle from the CC gound into your knives.

 

 

11 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Please pardon, but I used to be a scientist.  Tonight I used my Chef's Choice to sharpen my New West chef's knife, which I sharpen perhaps once or twice a year.  The sharpening procedure was three passes each side in slot one (the 15 degree slot), followed by three passes each side in slot three (the honing slot).

 

Before sharpening the New West chef's knife weighed 205.206 g.  After sharpening it weighed 205.183 g, a difference of 0.023 g.

 

 

Poetic license indeed!  But - I was referring to @rotuts's post, where he mentions grinding new angles into knives. My guess is your knife is already sharpened and you're just touching it up.

[rotuts]

@Dave the Cook 

 

for starters , the # 2 is fine.    

 

you wont use the 220 very much , and the grit from that will scratch your kknives

 

make sure you use the 'tape over ' when you use the 2120 , if that sort of thing means anythings to you

 

the # 3 has a 120 stone , again , not useful in the kitchen

 

Id go w the #2 and add stones as you get more experience.  

 

you really dont need the 1,000 for the kitchen.

 

unless you have Watanabe style knives.   and watanabe style knives can get very very sharp

 

w the newer very fine stones :  2300 and 4000 diamond stones.

 

Ive had mine for a long time.    I use a second stone of the same grit to keep the stones level

 

rather than the grit system EP suggests.   I had that initially and the grit gets on everything and

 

can scratch a counter surface.

 

 

[paulraphael]

You remove a bunch of metal when you rebevel a knife for sure. Doesn't matter whether you use a machine or edge pro or water stones. 

 

And after you've done enough sharpening to significantly shorten the height of the blade, it's important to thin the blade overall. This also removes a bunch of metal. 

 

I don't know if you can thin a knife on an edge pro or not. You certainly can't use any of the machines like the chef's choice. 

 

Edited to add: a ruler is more useful than a milligram scale to know in practical terms how much metal you've removed. You want to think about thinning when your blade has a couple of mm height.

Edited September 12, 2020 by paulraphael (log)

[Dave the Cook]

2 hours ago, paulraphael said:

And after you've done enough sharpening to significantly shorten the height of the blade,

 

. . . you have an excuse to go knife shopping.

[rotuts]

@paulraphael

 

https://www.edgeproinc.com/manuals/EdgePro_Instruction-Manual_Professional.pdf

 

pp 12  thinning.   diagrams in the manual give non users a good idea

 

of h9w them EP works.

 

 

[paulraphael]

17 hours ago, Dave the Cook said:

 

. . . you have an excuse to go knife shopping.

 

Sure, and some people don't even need an excuse to go knife shopping. But if you like your knife and want to keep it cutting well for its useful life, you'll have to thin it from time to time.

 

If you're old school you'll get to the point where your chef's knife becomes a slicing knife. But you have to be pretty hardcore for that. I've had my current gyuto 11 years and it's only lost about 1-1/2mm. I've only thinned it once, and it was part of reprofiling the thing.

[scubadoo97]

I went deep in when I purchased my first and subsequent Japanese knives.   First an EdgePro and then a set of Shapton glass stones which were the rage at the time.   I recently pull out my gear and sharpened my most used knives.   And found these little angle guides to help keep you at the proper angle when freehand sharpening 

 

[rotuts]

@scubadoo97  

 

nice.   very nice .

 

is that a circular magnifying glass in the box ?

 

what are the two middle knives ?   I dont really want to know that BIW

 

how do the angle guides work ?   I cant quite figure it out.

 

I remember the Shapton stones came out a little after i got my EP

 

I thought of getting a few finer grits , but they are thicker than the Ep stones 

 

so I put off , as it would have been a pain to re-set the EP jig.

 

I did succumb to the newer diamond EP stones that replace the tap.

 

I enjoy them.  not truly needed if you use a fine touch on the 1.000 grit stone

 

but very therapeutic.  Much more therapeutic than Psychotherapy.

 

"":  talk therapy """      ie what do you think about that ?

 

I think the knives are not quite there yet.

Edited September 21, 2020 by rotuts (log)

[scubadoo97]

Rotuts, the 2 middle knives are  cheap Japanese carbon steels.   Forgot what the brand was but they take a wicked edge.   The one on the right is Tojiro.   Here two more Tojiros 

 

[rotuts]

I have two thin cheap chinese cleavers from Chinatown.

 

probably the same sort of steel as the two Japanese knives you have centered

 

they too take on a razors edge.  doesnt last very long  but as sharp as anything 

 

you can chjarpen.

[scubadoo97]

And this big 308mm which I have rarely used