Why remove from vacuum pac?

[heidih]

I know this has come up before but I do not recall the answer. I tend to buy frozen fish fillets that are individually vacuum packaged. They all say to remove from pack before thawing. Why?

[lindag]

I buy frozen fillets from Schwan's and, unless I missed it, there's no mention of that.

[rotuts]

I don't think the ones from Tj's say that.

 

I was of course wrong :  I have one packet of wild salmon.

 

it says ' remove all packaging '  as the first thing

 

it seems reasonable that the plastic is ' food safe '

 

Im wondering if they just want to make sure you don't cook the fish

 

' in the bag '

[KennethT]

I've bought frozen fish that said that on the vacuum pack.  The reason the company gave is that the fish is first flash frozen without the packaging, and then sealed under a hard vacuum once frozen solid.  The company said to remove from the packaging first because they thought that the pressure would damage the fish once the fish was soft and have a bad texture when cooked.

[blue_dolphin]

Once the vacuum package warms up, you would have a situation where anaerobic bacteria, like Clostridium botulinum can produce toxin.

See here: Open your vacuum packed fish before thawing

[heidih]

Thank you all - makes more sense now

Edited April 14, 2018 by heidih (log)

[rotuts]

learn something every day here

 

Kudos to

 

@blue_dolphin

[pastrygirl]

22 minutes ago, blue_dolphin said:

Once the vacuum package warms up, you would have a situation where anaerobic bacteria, like Clostridium botulinum can produce toxin.

See here: Open your vacuum packed fish before thawing

 

Are botulism and listeria common in fish, or would it have to be a case of contamination?

[blue_dolphin]

1 minute ago, pastrygirl said:

 

Are botulism and listeria common in fish, or would it have to be a case of contamination?

According to Bulletin #3107, Reduced Oxygen Packaging (ROP): Requirements and Guidelines in Maine for Food Service:

Quote

...

C. botulinum is present everywhere, and any food can be contaminated with it and should be treated to prevent or control growth and toxin formation.

There are several strains of C. botulinum. C. Bot type E and non-proteolytic types B and F are associated with fish and fishery products and can grow and produce toxin in temperatures as low as 38°F (3.3°C)...

 

[ElsieD]

48 minutes ago, blue_dolphin said:

Once the vacuum package warms up, you would have a situation where anaerobic bacteria, like Clostridium botulinum can produce toxin.

See here: Open your vacuum packed fish before thawing

 

Egads!  Is that also true of meat products?  

[blue_dolphin]

26 minutes ago, ElsieD said:

Egads!  Is that also true of meat products?  

 

I am no expert, but since C. botulinum spores are ubiquitous in the environment, most food safety guidance that I've seen recommends using appropriate controls for all vacuum-packed, chilled foods in order to minimize the chances of the bacteria growing and producing toxin. 

The controls can be pretty simple like temperature control and monitoring.   Foods vary in their risk depending on factors like salt, acidity and moisture level.

 

I think concern comes in because some of those vacuum packages look like something that's going to be very stable and some users may be careless with keeping them properly chilled.  In that anaerobic environment where C. botulinum can grow and produce toxins, many spoilage bacteria can't grow so the food ends up looking and smelling fine, so they use it.   It's fairly rare that someone gets sick but because the illness is so devastating, it's worth taking care.

Edited April 14, 2018 by blue_dolphin
to finish a sentence (log)

[Martin Fisher]

5 hours ago, blue_dolphin said:

Once the vacuum package warms up, you would have a situation where anaerobic bacteria, like Clostridium botulinum can produce toxin.

See here: Open your vacuum packed fish before thawing

 

Yes, they don't mention that, among the food-borne pathogenic Clostridium botulinum types A, B and E.

Type E, which is specifically associated with fish products, is capable of multiplying at the lowest temperature of any type—the 38 degrees F, noted in the MSU bulletin.

Edited April 14, 2018 by DiggingDogFarm (log)