Baking with Myhrvold's "Modernist Bread: The Art and Science"

[Shelby]

4 minutes ago, Anna N said:

Thank you. You are always in my corner. 

 

 

I'm your corner woman (like in boxing).  I'll wipe your brow, cheer you on, dust off the flour.......

[Chris Hennes]

With the company holiday potluck coming up I figured the Chocolate Cherry sourdough would be well-received, so I made three more loaves...

 

[Chris Hennes]

Apparently I need to work on my reading comprehension. Or maybe just, you know, actually read the instructions completely before plowing ahead. When you don't, things like this happen:

 

Let me go back to the beginning. Obviously, what I'm making here is one of their canned breads: in this case, pizza dough that is canned along with sauce and cheese. Now, the instructions here are clear (in retrospect): they want you to proof the dough in the jars for a specific amount of time, then bake. Well, I made the Neapolitan pizza dough and let it bulk ferment as usual. Then I divided it between the jars:

 

So far so good. Now, the actual pizza dough recipe calls for a 1-2 day cold proof. I'm a fan of flavorful pizza dough, so without paying any attention to the canning instructions (remember: divide, shape, place in the jars, proof for a short time, bake), I went ahead and did a 24-hour proof in the refrigerator. They came out looking like this:

 

Hmm. Not much headroom there. Well, OK, but it's getting punched down a bit when you add the sauce, so here goes:

 

(The sauce is delicious, by the way). Looking OK so far:

 

But the cheese tends to make things look... less OK:

 

And when they were all sealed up:

 

Yeah, headroom is definitely a problem there. And sure enough, this did not work at all.

 

 

De-jarred:

 

So please, learn from my foolish mistake: follow the proofing instructions they give! (As an aside, the dough was delicious.)

[Anna N]

Oh Chris.  I am laughing with you, not at you, because I’m sure you were laughing at yourself as I would be. 

 

 Pizza is on my calendar for tomorrow but I won’t be canning it just yet. First up will be same day pizza. 

 

[Anna N]

@Chris Hennes is right.  The fresh pizza sauce is delicious. There is a batch waiting in the fridge now for my first pizza which is not going quite as well as I hoped due to the vagaries of life.  Hoping I am back on track now and things will proceed smoothly. 

[Anna N]

 Over here, Chris remarks how forgiving dough can be. And that is so true.  Because the recipes are so precise I find myself overthinking all too often.

 

I mentioned that life got in the way this morning and my carefully planned baking schedule went to hell in a banneton.  What to do? What to do? 

 

Well I have pre-shaped four (250g) portions of (same day)

pizza dough. The day still remains dicey in terms of meeting any sort of schedule. But I am going to slip these boules of pizza dough Into plastic bags and into the refrigerator.  I figure one and a half hours before I want to put the pizza in the oven I will take the dough out of the refrigerator and let it warm up on the counter. I will then shape it, top it and bake it.  Could happen today. Might happen tomorrow. Probably could go as long as Wednesday and still be good.  That’s my theory anyway. 

 

 

[Chris Hennes]

Considering that their non-same-day pizza dough calls for a 1-2 day cold proof, I think you're probably pretty safe here.

[Kerry Beal]

Pain de mie (Or as autocorrect calls it - pain de Mike)

 

[Chris Hennes]

@Kerry Beal, that looks excellent. Is that a 1kg loaf, or did you scale it? 4x4x13?

[Kerry Beal]

Just now, Chris Hennes said:

@Kerry Beal, that looks excellent. Is that a 1kg loaf, or did you scale it? 4x4x13?

1 kg - 13 x 4 x 4

 

 

[Anna N]

Well not all experiments are one hundred percent successful. But if they teach you even one thing then you can’t consider them a failure either. 

 

The Same Day Pizza — take one

 

 

 The cheese is over cooked. 

 

 

 The crust is under cooked. 

 

 

There is very minimal leoparding. 

 

 So here are a few details.

 

The tomato sauce is good and is the one in the books.  Even without the specifically recommended brands of tomatoes and tomato paste this is a lively and interesting fresh tomato sauce. 

 

 I pre-sautéed the mushrooms and the leeks.

 

The cheese is the abominable skim milk “pizza” mozzarella. 

 

The dough was extremely elastic and a bit challenging to shape. I did let it rest for 5 to 10 minutes between attempts to stretch it out. Circles are not my forte.  I managed something around 10 inches.  That would likely have had an effect on the doneness of the dough. 

 

 Now to the oven set up:

 

 

There was little likelihood that I would move the lower pizza stone which someone had especially made for me and is simply too heavy to be manipulated unless you are young, strong and healthy (or foolhardy).  I can guarantee you I am none of the first three and I try not to be the fourth.    And so I had a smaller ordinary commercial pizza stone which I put on the upper shelf.

 

The directions were clear:

 

to preheat the oven at 500°F for at least an hour — check.

 

to switch the oven to the high broil function five minutes before you plan on placing the pizza in the oven — check

 

to place the baking stone 8 inches from the broiler element — hmmm

 

This presented a problem and it’s one I am sure will face others. Home oven shelves are not infinitely adjustable. I chose a position that most nearly matched the one recommended but in fact my pizza stone is closer to 7 inches than to the recommended 8 inches. 

 

My bake time was exactly 7 minutes. 

 

 I find it very difficult even with my oven light on to see what is happening in there. I have smoked glass oven doors which hide the mess but also make it difficult to see what things are doing in there. 

 

 My next attempt will be with the shelf one step lower — that is a further away from the broiler — in the hope that the crust will have more of an opportunity to bake while the cheese doesn’t get quite so brown. I know some people who put cheese on halfway through the baking but you would lose so much doing that in this situation. 

 

 

 

 

[Kerry Beal]

Crumb shot 

 

[Chris Hennes]

23 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

Crumb shot 

How's the flavor? I don't recall the method for making that one. Is there a preferment?

[Kerry Beal]

9 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

How's the flavor? I don't recall the method for making that one. Is there a preferment?

Quite nice. It's a direct dough. 1.5 hour bulk ferment and a further 1.5 or so in the pan. 

 

I'm working on a cherry chocolate sourdough - needed something for today.

[Anna N]

Same day pizza — take 2

 

 I rearranged my oven and  the (relevant) pizza stone could hardly be any closer than 8 inches away from the broiler element. 

 

 What changed? 

 Not very much. The cheese is still way overcooked. The crust is getting closer to where I think it should be but there is zero leoparding despite that there was not even parchment paper between the crust and the stone this time (as there was last time). 

 

 Baking time was exactly 8 minutes. Still think The crust would benefit from a long a baking time but then the cheese  would turn to charcoal. 

 

 

 

 

 

It was at least edible this time but only barely. The last one I picked off a few toppings and then threw it into the bin.  Perhaps this time I’m extra hungry. 

 

 Not willing to give up but not sure where to go from here. 

 

 Tomorrow I will buy some fresh mozzarella and dry it out as they suggest. Beyond that I don’t know what steps I could take but I’m wide open to any suggestions that don’t include building a brick pizza oven in my below zero and very small postage stamp sized backyard. 

 

[Chris Hennes]

9 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

I'm working on a cherry chocolate sourdough - needed something for today.

What chocolate inclusion are you using? I've tried a couple, and really loved the one with the Albert Uster Orchid 74% coins.Bonus points for the coins being smaller than normal so they functioned more like normal chocolate chips.

[Chris Hennes]

Just now, Anna N said:

Tomorrow I will buy some fresh mozzarella and dry it out as they suggest. Beyond that I don’t know what steps I could take but I’m wide open to any suggestions that don’t include building a brick pizza oven in my below zero and very small postage stamp sized backyard. 

Well, I know it's not a great solution for you because it's so heavy, but a baking steel works wonders for pizza and in my opinion gives a much better crust than a stone.

[Kerry Beal]

8 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

What chocolate inclusion are you using? I've tried a couple, and really loved the one with the Albert Uster Orchid 74% coins.Bonus points for the coins being smaller than normal so they functioned more like normal chocolate chips.

Using this one. Cacao Barry gave me some for the demos I was doing at the Christmas Chocolate and Pastry Show yesterday. As is the Orchid - it's a little bigger than chip sized. 

[Anna N]

20 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

So please, learn from my foolish mistake: follow the proofing instructions they give! (As an aside, the dough was delicious.)

Chris, 

 

This  review suggests that there is something basically wrong with the recipe for canned pizza:

 

“(Future editions of the book will be changed to reflect the proper temperature, and corrections will be noted on the Modernist website.)”

 

[Chris Hennes]

5 minutes ago, Anna N said:

This  review suggests that there is something basically wrong with the recipe for canned pizza:

 

“(Future editions of the book will be changed to reflect the proper temperature, and corrections will be noted on the Modernist website.)”

Aha! So maybe my inability to follow simple instructions is not (entirely) to blame! It also sounds like even when it works it's still a questionable idea. I really wanted to make the cinnamon rolls, but I didn't have the right jars on hand. I'm still thinking about whether to order them or not.

[Duvel]

6 hours ago, Anna N said:

 

 What changed? 

 Not very much. The cheese is still way overcooked. The crust is getting closer to where I think it should be but there is zero leoparding despite that there was not even parchment paper between the crust and the stone this time (as there was last time). 

 

 Baking time was exactly 8 minutes. Still think The crust would benefit from a long a baking time but then the cheese  would turn to charcoal. 

 

...

 

 Not willing to give up but not sure where to go from here. 

 

I feel your frustration as I strongly dislike overcooked cheese on a pizza myself. After doctueingnaround with pizza stones and positions the only satisfying solution I found for me isnto cook the pizza without cheese on full blast (like you describe) to nearly 80% done (lowest shelf or bottom, preheated to max). Then take it out for a sec, put the cheese on (together with no-cook items) and back in for the last minute or so. Works with any cheese (especially semi-dried mozz with some tasty additions). No burning.

Bit of work, but I also found that the minute or so the pizza is out of the oven it releases a bit of moisture and at least in my view comes out a bit more crispy.

Please keep us posted on your solution

[JoNorvelleWalker]

My beautiful 0.85 kg boule came out of the CSO well after midnight, so dinner was pizza from several day old leftover lean French dough.  Quite satisfying.  I've been cooking pizza on my DeLonghi griddle.  Delayed addition of cheese is easy.

 

I figure it will  take a good five hours for the bread to cool.

 

[Anna N]

5 hours ago, Duvel said:

Please keep us posted on your solution

My thought, as I fell asleep last night, was that my next attempt will not put the cheese on at all.  I will find out first what the cook time is to bring my crust to where I want it.  Once I determine that then I will make a decision as to when I might be prepared to open the door and toss some cheese on.  I will certainly report back. 

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Anna N (log)

[Shelby]

2 hours ago, Anna N said:

My thought, as I fell asleep last night, was that my next attempt will not put the cheese on at all.  I will find out first what the cook time is to bring my crust to where I want it.  Once I determine that then I will make a decision as to when I might be prepared to open the door and toss some cheese on.  I will certainly report back. 

 

 

I wonder if frozen cheese would make a difference?

[teonzo]

On 25/11/2017 at 9:40 PM, Anna N said:

 I have a question about the chocolate brioche — perhaps about all brioches. It is not a bread I am very familiar with at all. But I did get a text from my granddaughter which was not a complaint but just a comment that it is very crumbly. She said, “It’s still good but I have to be careful where I eat it,”.  I asked if it was equally crumbly yesterday when it was fresh and she said that it was. Is this the nature of the beast or is it a defect? Thanks. 

 

If a standard brioche is crumbly then usually it's due to overmixing.

This has cocoa (at least I suppose so, I don't have the recipe / books), so it's a normal effect. When you add cocoa to a dough it becomes crumbly. You notice the effect from 2% (baker percentage) and rising, the higher the % the crumblier the final dough.

 

 

 

Teo