Mixing ground meats w mixer's paddle blade

[rotuts]

somewhere I saw a method for making Meatloaf or meatballs using the paddle blade of a stand mixer until the ground meat is very 'smooth'

 

this was said to offer a superior final texture.

 

I looked this up as best I could in the Test Kitchen TV show cookbook, but did not find it in that book as Id like to see the video Im

 

thinking of, unless Im wrong about this.

 

does anyone do this or has seen this done ?   its not a 'quick-mix', its mixed for longer than just to incorporate a couple of ingredients.

 

indeed the meat is initially mixed alone until a new texture is developed.

 

any help with this technique is appreciated.     it possible im mistaken about this.

[Alex]

I do this not for a meatloaf, but for Joan Nathan's Gefilte Fish Pâté. I "grind" the fish in a food processor (very carefully), then mix it for 15 minutes in the KA with sautéed onions, eggs, matzo meal, etc. Works beautifully. I have no reason to think it wouldn't also work for a meatloaf.

[Anna N]

8 minutes ago, rotuts said:

somewhere I saw a method for making Meatloaf or meatballs using the paddle blade of a stand mixer until the ground meat is very 'smooth'

 

this was said to offer a superior final texture.

 

I looked this up as best I could in the Test Kitchen TV show cookbook, but did not find it in that book as Id like to see the video Im

 

thinking of, unless Im wrong about this.

 

does anyone do this or has seen this done ?   its not a 'quick-mix', its mixed for longer than just to incorporate a couple of ingredients.

 

indeed the meat is initially mixed alone until a new texture is developed.

 

any help with this technique is appreciated.     it possible im mistaken about this.

 I am no expert on this but when I made frikadellar Danish meat balls) using a recipe that calls for ingredients to beaten I would sometimes use the kitchen aid if my husband was not up to the task.  The ingredients included ground beef and pork, eggs, breadcrumbs, cream  and seasonings. The texture is definitely smoother than one would expect to find in a meatball but not like an emulsified sausage.  Perhaps someone else can offer something more scientific but if not you may have to experiment a bit.  

[Deryn]

I can't find the video you may be referring to (at least quickly), rotuts, but the texture has to be more like a pate than a 'homemade by hand' mixed meatloaf.

 

I guess it comes down to personal preference as to what texture you want. I found all sorts of comments on the web about mixing by hand, mixing for a short time with a stand mixer, and the fact that institutions preparing large batches of meatloaf do use a machine (probably a Hobart though) to mix their meatloaf, but few to none saying they would mix a long time in a stand mixer and most saying they use a stand mixer do it because of the 'freezing hands' part (often because they have arthritis).

 

I mix by hand as my mother and grandmother and everyone else I have seen do it does/did it. If I wanted a pate, I guess I might try the mixer if my food processor was out of service or too much of a nuisance to haul out.

[cyalexa]

That technique is used in this recipe:

 

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/swedish-meatballs-recipe.html

[Lisa Shock]

When I was studying up for my entry into a meatball contest years ago (I took best flavor!) I researched mainly Chinese and Vietnamese meatballs, which are generally served in soups. The instructions for many of the pork recipes called for stirring ingredients in a bowl, in just one direction. It was often stated that the texture would be improved by such mixing. I know they were implying doing this by hand, but a mixer, with a cold bowl and paddle, could do it as well.

[JohnT]

The mixing of ground meat in a stand mixer with a paddle is basically to develop the myosin which acts as a binder to keep the meat from breaking apart when cooked. It is a process used in sausage making.

 

There are a few things that need to be followed to ensure you are left with the correct or wanted texture. Firstly, the mixing of up to a couple kilos of meat should take only a few minutes - not more than 5 minutes. Secondly, make sure the meat is kept well chilled during the whole process - 0-5ºC (32-40ºF). This ensures that the fats do not smear as you really want them to not be melted in the mixture.

 

The whole process can easily be done by hand but a person needs to be careful that the meat temperature remains cold. Adding a little iced water makes the process easier, with the water cooking out of the meat quite quickly.

 

Do a Google search for developing myosin - it should dig up better info than what I have posted above.

[Deryn]

rotuts - just as an aside: What kind of texture do YOU like in your meatloaves and/or meatballs? Is this a technique that would produce the kind of texture you like?

 

How does one judge what someone else says is 'superior texture'?

 

What I am imagining (and it may be incorrect) is that the texture that this technique aims to achieve is somewhat akin to that of those (to me) horrid little meatballs in a Chefboyardee can. Are there any other virtues (than being able to mix large quantities or keep one's hands from freezing and, one presumes, a very smooth texture) to this method?

[rotuts]

thanks for all the responses.  One think about eG  :  if you as a reasonable question, you get a lot of help finding the answer.

 

the reason this came up in my mind is that my last several  3 - 4 Turkey meat loafs were no longer award winning Grand Champions as they usually are

 

I don't have a Rx written down, and Im fairly sure they are made in a close enough manner, that I started thinking about MeatLoaf set texture.  my flavor was not the 

 

real problem.   I added a little white wine, a serious mistake  etc.  the the paddle idea came up.

 

indeed  @JohnT  ideas was what I remember from the Vid.  I had a HD over the air capture program and have most of the zillion PBS cooking shows, the better ones

 

I tried to find a TestKitchen vid w a paddle mix, and didn't find one.  it may or may not exist on that show.

 

they did use a cuisinart on several 'mixes' and a recent show  ( this season # 1606  --  pork sausage meatballs ) used this technique.  they also added

 

baking soda to 1/2 of the ground pork for a few minutes and made the panade in the Cuisinart first.

 

So Ill try out some of those ideas later today with 20 oz of 93 % ground turkey   my usual ingredient  and report back.

 

no idea why Ive lost my way a bit with this Rx.  it goes to show you that from time to time, look over your technique and find out info on eG and the web and

 

start again.    so the panade will be made in the Cuisinart, the ground turkey will get a little baking soda  and the rest will be more or less the same.

 

many thanks again to all for your ideas.  The Paddle Video of course will haunt me for a few days  .....  and it was about developing myosin

 

and must have come from a PBS show, TestKitchen/Cook'sCountry are the most likely candidates as there are a lot more of them than way

 

SimplyMing.

[kayb]

One of my quirks is I like a heavy, dense texture in my meatloaf, instead of the barely-hanging-together texture many chefs recommend. I want something that'll hold up for a sandwich the next day. I generally do mine by hand, but the mixer isn't a bad idea.

 

I'm not sure how I lived before I got my KA.

 

 

[scubadoo97]

On May 7, 2016 at 9:19 AM, Alex said:

I do this not for a meatloaf, but for Joan Nathan's Gefilte Fish Pâté. I "grind" the fish in a food processor (very carefully), then mix it for 15 minutes in the KA with sautéed onions, eggs, matzo meal, etc. Works beautifully. I have no reason to think it wouldn't also work for a meatloaf.

 

I didn't use this recipe but when I recently made baked gefilte fish I ground my fish frozen in my meat grinder but used the KA with the flat paddle to blend the mixture together.  I've also used the KA for making chicken salad as well as rillettes 

[Franci]

I use the paddle to make the filling for chinese dumpling and I add as much iced water the meat can take.

 

Talking about fish and paddle...a lot of people use it to make baccala' mantecato alla veneziana

[rotuts]

I thought Id let you know what I ended up doing here.

 

i took the jist of theTestkitchens sausage/pork meatballs and adapt it to the turkey ML. episode 1606.

 

they use a cuisinart, and start with the panade with other flavors and process that until smooth.   they add BiBarb to the ground pork + some water and mix that up 

 

by hand and rest it for 10 minutes.  the BiCarb is said to keep moisture in the meat or some such thing.  1/4 tsp for 9 oz ground pork.

 

in their panade they used only egg yolks  ( 2 ) and not the white.   I use I whole egg.  I use finely ground rolled oats as I always have those on hand 

 

not always fresh bread.  they used fresh bread and cream.   i never keep cream as i rarely use it.   I do use Cream Cheese, a large 'nob' which i mix with cold

 

water until it has the consistency of heavy cream, and use that when i want some creaminess with a pasta dish.  this mixture seems to have a high enough fat 

 

content that is does not curdle in reduced wine.  I used fresh bread crumbs here  

 

I processed the panade with finely copped bacon fat from the Brenton's bacon i was using for the top.  I froze it, then added it to the bread / seasonings

 

and processed.   then added 2/3's of the ground turkey ( w BiCarb ) and processed.  plopped that on top of the remaining BiCarb's grturky :

 

 

note the color difference   then shaped in the pan :

 

 

I mixed this with a spatula in my usual manner  note the sl color difference, above.  w bacon on top, ready to go into the CSB:

 

 

this took 35 minutes at 275 steam bake internal temp  140

 

 

then torched:

 

 

 

here is what the New TML looked like the next day.  Bacon rarely survives to the next day :

 

 

what I learned :

 

this TML was excellent.  its texture was different from my Usual, more moving from American Rustic to Continental 'Thinking about Pate'

 

the texture was fine.  while hot I thought I detected a Bicarb taste.  not while cold.

 

note that even though i thought i mixed the two meats well with the spatula, as ive done in the past, I did not.

 

note the pink sections in the final pic.

 

Ill do this again, without the BiCarb  it was plenty tender to my tastes.

 

i have no idea if 2 egg yolks result in a more tender loaf than one whole egg.

 

Ill see if my cuisinart  ( 11 Cup Prep + ) can handle all the meat  ( 20 oz ) + panade next time.  I don't think it needed dairy as I ground up bacon fat in the

 

panade.  can't say for sure

 

Soo   the take home lesson for me :  when an old tried and true and award wining Rx doesn't turn out as it usually used to

 

think about  it and do a little research.

 

Ill do my TML's this way from now on, if 20 oz seems to make the Cuisinart  ' full '  Ill use the paddle on the KA for the final mix.

 

Ill use the Cuisi for the panade for sure.  can't say if 'cream' in the panade would be better than bacon fat.

 

I do wonder about the 2 yolks  vs the one egg.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2016 by rotuts (log)