Home Made Ice Cream (2015– )

[ccp900]

Another question. When you make inclusions like cakes and cookies. Do you do anything special to make them ice cream friendly?  I don’t think a normal cake recipe can be just folded in right?  The consistency and bite ability of that cake would change if frozen

 

also I haven’t used inclusions but does cake freeze in ice cream? How do you formulate to fix that?

Edited July 15, 2020 by ccp900 (log)

[paulraphael]

8 hours ago, ccp900 said:

Paul. What do you use as a container to heat the mix in your sous vide circulator? And temp and time? Do you still do what’s in your blog - ziploc at 75C for 45 mins?
 

I bought a new circulator but I’m afraid the 1 gallon freezer bag from ziplock might break its seams while heating at 72C for 45 mins. I don’t plan to open the bag since I am not looking to evaporate the mix. Have you had this happen to you before?

 

 

I've been doing 77°C for 45 minutes. I do this to get the mix closer to 75°C. Sous-vide is an imperfect solution ... it takes a really long time for a bag of goo to get hot. I've almost never had a problem with the bag leaking. For chocolate ice cream I do 85°C (if I remember right). For this I double bag it, just in case. If all goes well, the outer bag stays clean and be reused. 

 

Recently I made 2 quarts at once, and since my supermarket was out of the gallon freezer bags, I used a 2-gallon bag. I gave it an extra 15 minutes just on the assumption that it would take longer to heat. It all worked fine.

[paulraphael]

8 hours ago, ccp900 said:

Another question. When you make inclusions like cakes and cookies. Do you do anything special to make them ice cream friendly?  I don’t think a normal cake recipe can be just folded in right?  The consistency and bite ability of that cake would change if frozen

 

also I haven’t used inclusions but does cake freeze in ice cream? How do you formulate to fix that?

 

 

I haven't played much with inclusions since I worked at an ice cream shop way back in the 20th century. We just experimented to find what worked and what didn't. I can't remember what we did for things like strawberry shortcake. Some kind of pastry-like thing got thrown in halfway through the cycle. It must have have been pretty firm stuff to not completely disintegrate. Cookies and candy bar pieces worked fine. M&Ms were a disaster ... the food coloring would melt off, the primary colors would mix together, and the ice cream would turn rat-gray.

[ccp900]

8 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

I haven't played much with inclusions since I worked at an ice cream shop way back in the 20th century. We just experimented to find what worked and what didn't. I can't remember what we did for things like strawberry shortcake. Some kind of pastry-like thing got thrown in halfway through the cycle. It must have have been pretty firm stuff to not completely disintegrate. Cookies and candy bar pieces worked fine. M&Ms were a disaster ... the food coloring would melt off, the primary colors would mix together, and the ice cream would turn rat-gray.

That would look disgusting hahaha

[ccp900]

8 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

I haven't played much with inclusions since I worked at an ice cream shop way back in the 20th century. We just experimented to find what worked and what didn't. I can't remember what we did for things like strawberry shortcake. Some kind of pastry-like thing got thrown in halfway through the cycle. It must have have been pretty firm stuff to not completely disintegrate. Cookies and candy bar pieces worked fine. M&Ms were a disaster ... the food coloring would melt off, the primary colors would mix together, and the ice cream would turn rat-gray.

 

8 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

I've been doing 77°C for 45 minutes. I do this to get the mix closer to 75°C. Sous-vide is an imperfect solution ... it takes a really long time for a bag of goo to get hot. I've almost never had a problem with the bag leaking. For chocolate ice cream I do 85°C (if I remember right). For this I double bag it, just in case. If all goes well, the outer bag stays clean and be reused. 

 

Recently I made 2 quarts at once, and since my supermarket was out of the gallon freezer bags, I used a 2-gallon bag. I gave it an extra 15 minutes just on the assumption that it would take longer to heat. It all worked fine.

Thanks Paul. Very helpful!!

[weinoo]

 

This old workhorse I bought in June of 2004, for under $200. So when I (all by myself, I might add) hauled it out of the pantry yesterday for the first time since at least last summer, I was worried. And when I plugged it in and turned it on, there was a bit of wheezing. But it got nice and cold, so...

 

 

I spun some.  And this is my first attempt at a "Sicilian-style" gelato - cornstarch as the thickener. Double Madagascar vanilla bourbon. Tastes (pre-hardening) great. Less filling!

Edited July 20, 2020 by weinoo (log)

[paulraphael]

On 7/4/2020 at 6:08 PM, weinoo said:

While I'm not gonna argue with @paulraphael, I've made some pretty darn good sorbets following the old Cook's Illustrated method published years and years ago - July/August 1995, as a matter of fact. Basic recipe is:

 

2 cups fruit puree or juice

3/4 - 1 1/4 cup sugar

0 - 2 T lemon juice

1 T appropriate booze

 

No need to make a simple syrup or heat anything - just blend it up. Chill and then freeze in your ice cream maker.

There's a chart that accompanies the recipe with different fruits and their sugar content. 

 

Never had any complaints, nor has anyone missed any of the other additional ingredients.

 

My only problem with the Cook's Illustrated recipe (and practically all sorbet recipes) is that they're way too sweet for me. I mean, instant tooth-ache sweet. I think we've all just learned to accept this over the last 10 million years of sorbet-eating. 

 

Typical sorbets are around 30% sugar by weight. Most fruits are 8-15%. Most ice cream is 20% (which I think is already so sweet that it mutes our ability to taste the other flavors). 

 

Sorbet's gob-smacking sweetness level exists just for practical levels. Pastry chefs aren't saying "let's blow people's heads off with sugar!" ... they're only trying to make something that doesn't freeze into a brick.

 

So my goal has simply been to tame the sweetness, and maximize the fruit, without any hardness or texture compromises. In fact, along the way, I decided to try to get a creamier texture than the usual short/icy sorbet texture.

 

My approach is similar to CI's but more extreme. I use 75% fruit by weight. The remainder is a blend of sugars and other ingredients that work very hard to suppress freezing point, get the sweetness right, and keep the ice crystals small. The method I think is the same as theirs: blend it all together, chill, spin.

[paulraphael]

On 7/5/2020 at 3:15 PM, Katie Meadow said:

Not meaning to be a downer, since in fact I don't believe I have ever eaten ice cream made with lots of chemical additives.

 

What you're calling chemical additives are just ingredients with unfamiliar names.  

 

Inulin is an extract from chicory root. Dextrose is just glucose (if it weren't flowing through your veins right now, you'd be dead). Sorbet stabilizers are blends of gums, which are just flours made from plants like carob tree seeds, guar beans, or Irish moss seaweed. 

 

These ingredients are expensive and take up room on my shelf. I wouldn't bother if thought there was another way to make ice cream or sorbet that's as good. 

[weinoo]

I use booze and lemon or lime to cut the sweetness and prevent over-hardening. Seems to work, as we don't like super sweet either. I always err on the side of less is more. Amazing what a tablespoonful or two of rum or bourbon does for the product.

The recipes I looked at for the gelato I made yesterday called for 3 cups of liquid (I used 2 milk, 1 heavy cream) and 1/2 - 3/4 cup sugar, so I used 1/2. I doubled up the Madagascar vanilla beans (which are potent!), and used about 1.5 T of bourbon. It tasted great right out of the machine and I;m interested to see how it will be later in the day.

 

Also, reading a little more about the starch, something I learned was that if you overheat or overstir it once it has done its thickening magic, it actually gets thinner, so I was quite careful with that aspect. And now I'm wondering about other starches, since I have potato starch handy.

[paulraphael]

31 minutes ago, weinoo said:

Also, reading a little more about the starch, something I learned was that if you overheat or overstir it once it has done its thickening magic, it actually gets thinner, so I was quite careful with that aspect. And now I'm wondering about other starches, since I have potato starch handy.

 

I haven't used starches in a while. My only thoughts are that cornstarch is traditional, tapioca seems to be the darling these days, and arrowroot is nasty (in ice cream ... it's great elsewhere). 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Rose Levy Beranbaum's book Rose's Ice Cream Bliss was recently published.  I'd had my copy on pre-order since last fall.  The first recipe I've now made is chocolate (pp134-136).  To the best of my remembrance I had never assayed chocolate ice cream in my life.  I was in uncharted territory.

 

To the best of my ability I followed the recipe exactly.  I even weighed the yolks (112 g).  There were some departures.  I tried to weigh the correct amount of cream but I overshot by 80 g.  However my cream is not as rich as the 40% butterfat cream she specifies.  Rose suggests adding butter if using less than 40% cream.  I did not bother adding butter.   I left out the espresso powder, of which I had none.  I had some coffee powder but did not feel like using it.

 

The chocolate Rose calls for is dark chocolate, 60% to 62%.  I have no lack of dark chocolate but I decided not to open a fresh 2.5 kg bag in the middle of the summer.  Few would fault me.  I made do with milk chocolate -- Felchlin Maracaibo Creole 49%.

 

The book assumes ultra pasteurized cream and milk.  Mine were not.  Rather than heat the custard with only part of the cream and add the remainder of the cream later I heated the custard with all of the cream and milk.  I don't think any harm was done.  Also I homogenized my mix before blast chilling it.

 

Earlier this afternoon I spun it.  Sorry, no photograph.  Picture inky dark brown ice cream in a dark blue-black bowl.  One of the finest ice creams I have made.  I'd say the best chocolate I have eaten.

 

Rose acknowledges she does not have a blast freezer at home.  I hope with the profits of the book she is able to buy one.

 

 

[ccp900]

1 hour ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Rose Levy Beranbaum's book Rose's Ice Cream Bliss was recently published.  I'd had my copy on pre-order since last fall.  The first recipe I've now made is chocolate (pp134-136).  To the best of my remembrance I had never assayed chocolate ice cream in my life.  I was in uncharted territory.

 

To the best of my ability I followed the recipe exactly.  I even weighed the yolks (112 g).  There were some departures.  I tried to weigh the correct amount of cream but I overshot by 80 g.  However my cream is not as rich as the 40% butterfat cream she specifies.  Rose suggests adding butter if using less than 40% cream.  I did not bother adding butter.   I left out the espresso powder, of which I had none.  I had some coffee powder but did not feel like using it.

 

The chocolate Rose calls for is dark chocolate, 60% to 62%.  I have no lack of dark chocolate but I decided not to open a fresh 2.5 kg bag in the middle of the summer.  Few would fault me.  I made do with milk chocolate -- Felchlin Maracaibo Creole 49%.

 

The book assumes ultra pasteurized cream and milk.  Mine were not.  Rather than heat the custard with only part of the cream and add the remainder of the cream later I heated the custard with all of the cream and milk.  I don't think any harm was done.  Also I homogenized my mix before blast chilling it.

 

Earlier this afternoon I spun it.  Sorry, no photograph.  Picture inky dark brown ice cream in a dark blue-black bowl.  One of the finest ice creams I have made.  I'd say the best chocolate I have eaten.

 

Rose acknowledges she does not have a blast freezer at home.  I hope with the profits of the book she is able to buy one.

 

 

Chocolate texture is hard to nail down. Congrats to your experiment hehe

[JoNorvelleWalker]

32 minutes ago, ccp900 said:

Chocolate texture is hard to nail down. Congrats to your experiment hehe

 

Rose deserves the credit.

 

[ccp900]

On 7/16/2020 at 1:21 AM, paulraphael said:

 

I've been doing 77°C for 45 minutes. I do this to get the mix closer to 75°C. Sous-vide is an imperfect solution ... it takes a really long time for a bag of goo to get hot. I've almost never had a problem with the bag leaking. For chocolate ice cream I do 85°C (if I remember right). For this I double bag it, just in case. If all goes well, the outer bag stays clean and be reused. 

 

Recently I made 2 quarts at once, and since my supermarket was out of the gallon freezer bags, I used a 2-gallon bag. I gave it an extra 15 minutes just on the assumption that it would take longer to heat. It all worked fine.

Paul. When you play around with your sugar and you need more solids, you said that you use skim milk powder to bump up the solids.  Don’t you find your lactose levels too high when you do that? I am using maltodextrin but I am really rethinking that route since I am not a fan of its side effects so if I can use something else I will.  

 

Pure inulin is hard to find here and very expensive so I can’t go that route. I am starting to think maybe I can use psyllium husk for bulking

 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by ccp900 (log)

[paulraphael]

7 hours ago, ccp900 said:

Paul. When you play around with your sugar and you need more solids, you said that you use skim milk powder to bump up the solids.  Don’t you find your lactose levels too high when you do that? I am using maltodextrin but I am really rethinking that route since I am not a fan of its side effects so if I can use something else I will.  

 

Pure inulin is hard to find here and very expensive so I can’t go that route. I am starting to think maybe I can use psyllium husk for bulking

 

 

 

Yeah, skim milk powder is about half lactose by weight. The lactose is a major part of what make it effective. If you're trying to reduce lactose it get a bit tricky. I'm not a huge fan of maltodextrin (except in sport drinks) because the glycemic index is so high. One option is trehalose, which has properties quite similar to lactose. Inulin isn't really something I'd use to bump up the solids. It works like a cross between a sugar, a fat, and a stabilizer. I like it in sorbets up to a few percent, but not in ice cream. People use it in very low fat ice creams, if they want them to seam like high fat ice creams. I just use as much fat as I think is appropriate.

 

You could consider using atomized glucose powder. The catch is that you never know what's in it besides glucose ... and it's often a whole lot of maltodextrin and related dextrins. I end up using a fair amount of this in sorbets. 

[ccp900]

29 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

Yeah, skim milk powder is about half lactose by weight. The lactose is a major part of what make it effective. If you're trying to reduce lactose it get a bit tricky. I'm not a huge fan of maltodextrin (except in sport drinks) because the glycemic index is so high. One option is trehalose, which has properties quite similar to lactose. Inulin isn't really something I'd use to bump up the solids. It works like a cross between a sugar, a fat, and a stabilizer. I like it in sorbets up to a few percent, but not in ice cream. People use it in very low fat ice creams, if they want them to seam like high fat ice creams. I just use as much fat as I think is appropriate.

 

You could consider using atomized glucose powder. The catch is that you never know what's in it besides glucose ... and it's often a whole lot of maltodextrin and related dextrins. I end up using a fair amount of this in sorbets. 

Agreed with your points but have you ever bumped against the boundaries of lactose when you raise your milk powder? I’m afraid that the lactose makes the texture sandy. I don’t know what lactose/water percentage that’s safe

 

i am also avoiding atomized glucose it is just so unpredictable!!

Edited July 21, 2020 by ccp900 (log)

[jandreas]

On 7/21/2020 at 1:00 AM, ccp900 said:

 you use skim milk powder to bump up the solids.  Don’t you find your lactose levels too high when you do that? 

 

The general rule of thumb from Corvitto for calculating the maximum percentage of skim milk powder that you can use before sandiness can become an issue...

 

Add up the percentage of sugar and fat in the mix, subtract that from 100 and divide by 6.9.  

If your ice cream has 16.5% sugar and 8% fat;

 

16.5 + 8 = 24.5

100 - 24.5 = 75.5

75.5 / 6.9  = Use a maximum of 10.94% MSNF.

 

And depending on how much of a control freak you are;  there are all sorts of additional rules that can come into play, ex. your protein levels shouldn't be more than 50% whey.  The degree of polymerization of your solids will affect when things start turning sandy too.  But the Corvitto rule is "safe".

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by jandreas (log)

[paulraphael]

10 hours ago, ccp900 said:

Agreed with your points but have you ever bumped against the boundaries of lactose when you raise your milk powder? I’m afraid that the lactose makes the texture sandy. I don’t know what lactose/water percentage that’s safe

 

i am also avoiding atomized glucose it is just so unpredictable!!

 

 

I've never had a problem with sandy textures. All the guidelines for maximum milk solids content are based on unstabilized ice cream. With stabilizers in the mix, you increase the maximum by 50%, possibly more ... certainly to a level that you'll never be tempted to test. 

[ccp900]

2 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

I've never had a problem with sandy textures. All the guidelines for maximum milk solids content are based on unstabilized ice cream. With stabilizers in the mix, you increase the maximum by 50%, possibly more ... certainly to a level that you'll never be tempted to test. 

Hi Paul. Thanks for that. I’ve been controlling lactose percentage to free water to around 9% but I’ll push it higher given your comment. I’ll move my stab blend to 3% to help there too. I moved it to 2% but i think 3% can help here

[paulraphael]

35 minutes ago, ccp900 said:

Hi Paul. Thanks for that. I’ve been controlling lactose percentage to free water to around 9% but I’ll push it higher given your comment. I’ll move my stab blend to 3% to help there too. I moved it to 2% but i think 3% can help here

 

You shouldn't have to use more stabilizer. If you're using more milk solids, you might even be able to use less. Lactose controls water really well. The presence of any functional amount of stabilizer seems to avert any crystalization problem.  

 

I'd suggest using however much stabilizer gives the texture and other qualities you like. Whatever that is aught to be plenty. 

 

For perspective, my most basic formula (which I like a lot) has 12% nonfat milk solids, including 7% skim milk powder. 

The industry-standard calculation that determine's maximum milk solids for an unstabilized formula (similar to Corvitto's but more sophisticated) says the maximum should be 8.4%.

So the formula contains nearly 143% the milk solids it should be able to get away with. 

I'm using 1.5g stabilizer per 1000g, or 0.15%. Relative to the water in the formula (which is how I like to calculate it) it's 0.25%.

This formula has never had a hint of graininess. 

[ccp900]

10 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

You shouldn't have to use more stabilizer. If you're using more milk solids, you might even be able to use less. Lactose controls water really well. The presence of any functional amount of stabilizer seems to avert any crystalization problem.  

 

I'd suggest using however much stabilizer gives the texture and other qualities you like. Whatever that is aught to be plenty. 

 

For perspective, my most basic formula (which I like a lot) has 12% nonfat milk solids, including 7% skim milk powder. 

The industry-standard calculation that determine's maximum milk solids for an unstabilized formula (similar to Corvitto's but more sophisticated) says the maximum should be 8.4%.

So the formula contains nearly 143% the milk solids it should be able to get away with. 

I'm using 1.5g stabilizer per 1000g, or 0.15%. Relative to the water in the formula (which is how I like to calculate it) it's 0.25%.

This formula has never had a hint of graininess. 

Thanks for this Paul!!!!  I will definitely try this out

[SeanT]

That's insteresting because I feel like I just made some vanilla with a sandy/dry texture after increasing the milk solids.  I'm working on a recipe for softer ice cream straight out of the freezer for my wife so I increased the nonfat milk solids and the dextrose expecting to increase the freezing point and have softer ice cream.  The mix is below.  Interested in anyone's thoughts on why the texture wasn't soft, but sandy/crumbly.  Put the wet ingredients in a blender and mixed thouroughly, mixed the dry ingredients to dispurse the stabilizers and then added to the wet and blended thoroughly.  Put the mix in a gallon bag and dropped into the sous vide bath at 176F for 50 minutes give or take a few.  Chilled in the fridge overnight and then into the ice cream maker.  

 

Maybe I don't have enough overall sugar? 

 

720 grams split between whole milk and heavy cream

70 g nonfat dry milk

40 g egg yolks

50 g sugar

50 g dextrose

20 g invert syrup

.85 g salt

.8 g guar gum

.65 g xanthan gum 

 

[paulraphael]

2 hours ago, SeanT said:

That's insteresting because I feel like I just made some vanilla with a sandy/dry texture after increasing the milk solids.  I'm working on a recipe for softer ice cream straight out of the freezer for my wife so I increased the nonfat milk solids and the dextrose expecting to increase the freezing point and have softer ice cream.  The mix is below.  Interested in anyone's thoughts on why the texture wasn't soft, but sandy/crumbly.  Put the wet ingredients in a blender and mixed thouroughly, mixed the dry ingredients to dispurse the stabilizers and then added to the wet and blended thoroughly.  Put the mix in a gallon bag and dropped into the sous vide bath at 176F for 50 minutes give or take a few.  Chilled in the fridge overnight and then into the ice cream maker.  

 

Maybe I don't have enough overall sugar? 

 

720 grams split between whole milk and heavy cream

70 g nonfat dry milk

40 g egg yolks

50 g sugar

50 g dextrose

20 g invert syrup

.85 g salt

.8 g guar gum

.65 g xanthan gum 

 

 

Intersting. I don't know why you're having texture problems. It looks like a very well-balanced formula. I'd also expect it to be relatively soft at normal serving temperatures. 

 

The "standard" maximum nonfat milk solids level for this would be 8.5%. You're at 12.3%, which shouldn't be a problem, considering the stabilizers. 

 

Here are the other numbers:

 

Total Fat: 14.7%        
Milk Fat: 13.7%        
Total Solids: 40.4%        
Solids Nonfat: 25.8%        
Milk Solids Nonfat: 12.3%        
Acidity: 0.2%        
Alcohol: 0%        
Stabilizer/Water: 0.26%        
Egg Lecithin: 0.34%        
POD: 130 / 1000g        
PAC: 254 / 1000g        
Absolute PAC: 535 / 1000g    (these PAC values don't mean much)    
Rel. Hardness @ -14°C: 72      (normal values are between 70 and 75)

 

My only recommendation would be to add a bit of carrageenan. Like, a really small bit. 0.2g lambda or 0.1g kappa. 

This is a semi-wild guess, based on what you're telling me. I wouldn't have thought this would be necessary, but you're finding that something isn't right. How cold is the freezer?

[ccp900]

4 hours ago, SeanT said:

That's insteresting because I feel like I just made some vanilla with a sandy/dry texture after increasing the milk solids.  I'm working on a recipe for softer ice cream straight out of the freezer for my wife so I increased the nonfat milk solids and the dextrose expecting to increase the freezing point and have softer ice cream.  The mix is below.  Interested in anyone's thoughts on why the texture wasn't soft, but sandy/crumbly.  Put the wet ingredients in a blender and mixed thouroughly, mixed the dry ingredients to dispurse the stabilizers and then added to the wet and blended thoroughly.  Put the mix in a gallon bag and dropped into the sous vide bath at 176F for 50 minutes give or take a few.  Chilled in the fridge overnight and then into the ice cream maker.  

 

Maybe I don't have enough overall sugar? 

 

720 grams split between whole milk and heavy cream

70 g nonfat dry milk

40 g egg yolks

50 g sugar

50 g dextrose

20 g invert syrup

.85 g salt

.8 g guar gum

.65 g xanthan gum 

 

Your milk solids is 11.70%.  Lactose is 9.72%. Water is 564g or 59.22%. Your lactose is 52.5g which means it can absorb 525g of water and you still have the guar and xanthan and dextrose that would also absorb water.  Old thinking says that you should keep lactose in the region of 7 to 9 percent otherwise it will go sandy but like what Paul said that should be relooked at given that the stabilizers that we use now inhibits the seeding and development of lactose crystals.  

 

you may not have enough water hence why it’s sandy.  This is theoretical though and I had to edit my sheet on my teeny tiny phone so it was difficult to see.  Paul uses his proprietary tool for calculations so I hope he jumps in and verifies my numbers.  I had to use glucose syrup though for invert in the calculation and that could have thrown off the water percentage as I think invert syrup would have more water?  I also do not have the breakdown for your cream and milk so I used what’s available here and the brands can have different formulations too. So please take my numbers as rough estimates.

 

i will actually make ice cream tomorrow with almost the same percentages as yours I’ll report back and also provide the breakdown. I’m away from my laptop so I can’t check

 

EDIT Paul got to this before I posted my reply hehe. But I’ll keep it here

 

ill also add the other numbers

milk fat 14.83

milk solids non fat 11.70

other fat 1.37

other solids 1.06

sugar 11.82

total solids 40.78

water 59.22

pod  105 error due to invert sugar and glucose substitution

pac 238 error also due to substitution

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by ccp900 (log)

[ccp900]

Got a chance to check my laptop.  The ice cream I’m making now will have the following numbers.  This is a nut based flavor so I took into account the hardening effect of nut fat

numbers are percentages

milk fat 8.49

milk solids not fat 11.83

other fat 4.00

other solids 5.54

sugar 11.59

total solids 41.44

total water 58.56

lactose 9.77 - 57.64grams

pod 120

pac 176 due to nut fat hardening. I also wanted to have a harder ice cream out of the freezer

 

i will report back in 1 or 2 days to see if there is a gritty sandy texture