Home Made Ice Cream (2015– )

paulraphael · April 22, 2022

On 4/18/2022 at 2:09 PM, AAQuesada said:

-sugar (raises the temperature for coagulation)

https://www.incredibleegg.org/professionals/manufacturers/real-egg-functionality/coagulation-thickening

Don't know if this helps, but it seems there are several scientific papers on the subject as well

It doesn't explain it, because what's at issue here is when the sugar is added. There's the same amount of sugar in the solution whether you add it first to the eggs or to the milk and cream.

We'd need a hypothesis that a high concentration of sugar added directly to the yolks causes some kind of change that later makes them coagulate at a higher temperature, even at the same final sugar concentration.

I can't find anything in the scientific literature that talks about this.

Edited to add: it would make sense that this would help if you're adding eggs to hot liquid. But if it helps when you add them to cold liquid and then bring the whole mix up to temperature, I don't know what would be going on. I'm a bit skeptical.

Edited April 22, 2022 by paulraphael (log)

Tri2Cook · June 22, 2022

I tried several search variations with no luck, wondering if anybody's come up with a good grape ice cream.

Edit: to get the ball rolling, I considered just using Welch's frozen grape juice concentrate and adding some glucose powder to increase the solids a bit plus milk/cream to get the sugar level into the ice cream range and maybe some stabilizer. I'd prefer to keep egg out of this one.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Tri2Cook (log)

**Smithy** · June 22, 2022

3 hours ago, Tri2Cook said:

I tried several search variations with no luck, wondering if anybody's come up with a good grape ice cream.

Edit: to get the ball rolling, I considered just using Welch's frozen grape juice concentrate and adding some glucose powder to increase the solids a bit plus milk/cream to get the sugar level into the ice cream range and maybe some stabilizer. I'd prefer to keep egg out of this one.

I have not made (or even thought of) grape ice cream, but I wonder whether sorbet would be a better way to go? I can imagine even a little milk overwhelming the flavor.

Tri2Cook · June 24, 2022

On 6/22/2022 at 11:00 AM, Smithy said:

I have not made (or even thought of) grape ice cream, but I wonder whether sorbet would be a better way to go? I can imagine even a little milk overwhelming the flavor.

Sorbet would absolutely be a better (or at least easier) way to go but my daughter had grape ice cream while she was away on a trip and liked it so she asked me if I could make some. I think I'm gonna give my first idea a try. The grape juice concentrate just eliminates me having to concentrate juice myself and avoids muddling the flavor from the extended cooking to reduce the water content.

mgaretz · June 24, 2022

21 minutes ago, Tri2Cook said:

Sorbet would absolutely be a better (or at least easier) way to go but my daughter had grape ice cream while she was away on a trip and liked it so she asked me if I could make some. I think I'm gonna give my first idea a try. The grape juice concentrate just eliminates me having to concentrate juice myself and avoids muddling the flavor from the extended cooking to reduce the water content.

You might even consider a plain ice cream base and add grape flavoring extract, like this: https://amzn.to/39SvFRR

Don't know if it's any good. I have also had success with snow cone syrup like: https://amzn.to/3QKxot9

Never used that brand or flavor either. If you live near a Smart and Final, I like their First Street house brand, at least for cherry.

Tri2Cook · June 24, 2022

10 hours ago, mgaretz said:

You might even consider a plain ice cream base and add grape flavoring extract, like this: https://amzn.to/39SvFRR

Don't know if it's any good. I have also had success with snow cone syrup like: https://amzn.to/3QKxot9

Never used that brand or flavor either. If you live near a Smart and Final, I like their First Street house brand, at least for cherry.

That might be a good way to go with it. I don't live near anything that would carry any of that stuff but (almost) everything's within reach via online shopping.

streem26 · June 24, 2022

My favorite that I’ve made so far has been a banana custard with vanilla fluff swirl and graham cracker crunch.
recipe Banana Ice Cream with Caramel & Cookie Swirls
I only use 2 eggs in my custards as a find you get the benefits of the eggs as an emulsifier but don’t have to worry about the change of flavor.

Edited June 25, 2022 by streem26 (log)

Yam · June 25, 2022

Hello folks,

This is a bit of an odd one, but I don't have a readily available source of non-stabilized heavy cream. However, I do have access to quality butter. As long as I adjust the proportions to control for fat and use a good blender to homogenize, does anyone see anything wrong with using milk/butter instead of milk/cream?

Edited June 25, 2022 by Yam
added blender info (log)

JoNorvelleWalker · June 25, 2022

55 minutes ago, Yam said:

Hello folks,

This is a bit of an odd one, but I don't have a readily available source of non-stabilized heavy cream. However, I do have access to quality butter. As long as I adjust the proportions to control for fat and use a good blender to homogenize, does anyone see anything wrong with using milk/butter instead of milk/cream?

If you can homogenize the mix well enough you should be OK.

paulraphael · June 28, 2022

On 6/25/2022 at 12:03 AM, Yam said:

Hello folks,

This is a bit of an odd one, but I don't have a readily available source of non-stabilized heavy cream. However, I do have access to quality butter. As long as I adjust the proportions to control for fat and use a good blender to homogenize, does anyone see anything wrong with using milk/butter instead of milk/cream?

Some industrial ice creams are made this way (I'm not sure why exactly). They have to use powerful homogenizers, and still they sometimes have texture problems. I suspect that with home equipment you'd be disappointed in the results. You would probably need some kind of emulsifying ingredient (yolks would work).

blue_dolphin · July 23, 2022

On 6/23/2022 at 8:59 PM, Tri2Cook said:

Sorbet would absolutely be a better (or at least easier) way to go but my daughter had grape ice cream while she was away on a trip and liked it so she asked me if I could make some. I think I'm gonna give my first idea a try. The grape juice concentrate just eliminates me having to concentrate juice myself and avoids muddling the flavor from the extended cooking to reduce the water content.

I was browsing through Dana Cree's Hello, My Name is Ice Cream, spied a recipe for Concord grape sherbet and wondered if you had tried making the grape ice cream yet?

She starts with a Concord grape purée and suggests reducing 100% Concord grape juice as an alternative so it sounds like your use of grape juice concentrate would work well. Her sherbet base has buttermilk, milk, cream, sugar, glucose and a little bit of malic or citric acid plus your choice of texture agent. She also adds rosemary, which appeals to me but could certainly be omitted for straight up grape. Let me know if you want the recipe.

We don't get Concord grapes locally but I'll probably try it with Thomcords when they show up at the farmers market

JoNorvelleWalker · July 24, 2022

Concord grapes have not shown up in the markets here for many years. I do love them. (Concord grapes, not necessarily the local markets.) I purchased Concord grape plants that grew beautifully on my balcony but they never fruited, and my landlord made me abandon my erstwhile horticultural attempts.

However -- the compound that flavors concord grapes is available as pesticide. Cross label, it has been used in commercial food products such as grape flavored apples. I am being serious. I have about a gallon left.

paulraphael · September 29, 2022

If anyone's interested in vegan / dairy-free / plant-based / whatever you want to call it ice cream, I've just come back from a rabbit hole I thought I'd never go down. New article, including gripes, theory, practice, and a sample base recipe.

Key takeaways:

-Vegan ice cream usually has a greasy mouthfeel or an insubstantial texture

-The problem is that vegetable fats don't match the lipid profile of dairy fat. And you also don't get the benefit of the dairy sugars and proteins.

-The solution is to start with a sorbet approach, not an ice cream approach. Add some plant-based fat, but the right kinds, and very little.

-Use cashews. They're effective, easy, and if they're raw, they can be almost completely bland. They don't interfere with subtle flavors.

-Get your richness from inulin. It suffers none of the problems of plant-based fat.

-Get your added solids, if needed, from big sugar molecules (atomized glucose, low-DE glucose syrup, tapioca syrup, etc.)

-Use an emulsifier. You're getting no help from milk proteins or egg proteins.

-Use a really good, cold-soluble stabilizer blend.

Mars · December 5, 2022

Awesome to see you here Underbelly!

I'm looking for insight into atomised glucose after reading through and trialing a recipe from Corvitto's 'The Secrets of Ice Cream' and I looked around the site a bit but couldn't find a clear answer. The book notes that 21 DE Atomised Glucose would be a 21% dextrose and 79% 'starch' composition, which I inferred would be corn starch as they're both derivatives of corn. However, just below the explanation of atomised glucose is the section on corn starch that states that 'it is rarely used due to it's tendecy to form lumps, especially during the freezing phase'. I'm under the impression that there is a underlying process to create atomised glucose above just mixing the two components in a bowl; and I can confirm the texture of my sorbet is grainy when I attempted it. The product is prohibitively expensive here in Australia as far as I know ($14.85 for 130g???) so I was hoping it'd be simple to create at home. I thought I'd ask here, but I'm guessing it isn't.

The recipe I based it off the 'mandarin sherbet with cava' recipe on page 390 of Corvitto's 'The Secrets of Ice Cream' (recipe attached) was using it to create a Asian Pear & Makgeoli sorbet (also attached).

Due to the antifreeze power of alcohol he opts to add solids atomised glucose because dextrose would create too much AFP, and sucrose would be too sweet. So I think if atomised glucose isn't an accessible ingredient then I'll just have to boil off the alcohol content to retain it's flavour and go with dextrose and/or maltodextrin. Unless anyone has other ideas?

Also, I'm new here. I do use a Google Sheets document to track my ideas and attempts if anyone is interested in flavour, component or execution ideas it's on my profile.

Thanks!

JoNorvelleWalker · December 5, 2022

12 hours ago, Mars said:

Awesome to see you here Underbelly!

I'm looking for insight into atomised glucose after reading through and trialing a recipe from Corvitto's 'The Secrets of Ice Cream' and I looked around the site a bit but couldn't find a clear answer. The book notes that 21 DE Atomised Glucose would be a 21% dextrose and 79% 'starch' composition, which I inferred would be corn starch as they're both derivatives of corn. However, just below the explanation of atomised glucose is the section on corn starch that states that 'it is rarely used due to it's tendecy to form lumps, especially during the freezing phase'. I'm under the impression that there is a underlying process to create atomised glucose above just mixing the two components in a bowl; and I can confirm the texture of my sorbet is grainy when I attempted it. The product is prohibitively expensive here in Australia as far as I know ($14.85 for 130g???) so I was hoping it'd be simple to create at home. I thought I'd ask here, but I'm guessing it isn't.

The recipe I based it off the 'mandarin sherbet with cava' recipe on page 390 of Corvitto's 'The Secrets of Ice Cream' (recipe attached) was using it to create a Asian Pear & Makgeoli sorbet (also attached).

Due to the antifreeze power of alcohol he opts to add solids atomised glucose because dextrose would create too much AFP, and sucrose would be too sweet. So I think if atomised glucose isn't an accessible ingredient then I'll just have to boil off the alcohol content to retain it's flavour and go with dextrose and/or maltodextrin. Unless anyone has other ideas?

Also, I'm new here. I do use a Google Sheets document to track my ideas and attempts if anyone is interested in flavour, component or execution ideas it's on my profile.

Thanks!

I use:

https://modernistpantry.com/products/glucose-de-42-powder.html

Modernist Pantry ships worldwide.

mgaretz · December 5, 2022

I am not an expert but it would appear that 21 DE atomized glucose is not glucose "diluted" to 21% by the addition of starch. Rather the process of turning the starch into glucose is stopped at 21% of the value of pure dextrose. What is leftover is not cornstarch but rather dextrins (and likely mostly maltodextrin).

Mars · December 6, 2022

18 hours ago, mgaretz said:

I am not an expert but it would appear that 21 DE atomized glucose is not glucose "diluted" to 21% by the addition of starch. Rather the process of turning the starch into glucose is stopped at 21% of the value of pure dextrose. What is leftover is not cornstarch but rather dextrins (and likely mostly maltodextrin).

I see! I might try mixing dextrose with maltodextrin then, which I now realise I was doing anyway with Messina recipes and other sources prior to learning and trialing Corvitto's recipes. Also, if maltodextrin is a product 20DE and below anyway it's probably an easy substitution for 21DE. Then I can go with Jo's option for 42DE as a middle-value to tinker with.

Thanks, I'm feeling better now and less disoriented.

18 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I use:

https://modernistpantry.com/products/glucose-de-42-powder.html

Modernist Pantry ships worldwide.

Thanks for the link! This is a much more reasonable price; assuming shipping to Australian isn't egregious.
Edit: it is

Edited December 6, 2022 by Mars (log)

Mars · December 6, 2022

I've spent the last few hours reading through all the posts in the 2013- thread and I'm so excited to begin going through this one as well! I felt like I'd been alone in my experiments and struggles this past year or so since my gelato passion emerged and with all your posts and some new found resources I feel rejuvenated again after being on the verge of shelving it for a while.

JoNorvelleWalker · December 6, 2022

3 hours ago, Mars said:

I see! I might try mixing dextrose with maltodextrin then, which I now realise I was doing anyway with Messina recipes and other sources prior to learning and trialing Corvitto's recipes. Also, if maltodextrin is a product 20DE and below anyway it's probably an easy substitution for 21DE. Then I can go with Jo's option for 42DE as a middle-value to tinker with.

Thanks, I'm feeling better now and less disoriented.

Thanks for the link! This is a much more reasonable price; assuming shipping to Australian isn't egregious.
Edit: it is

You could order a whole bunch of other stuff for the same shipping charge!

Mars · December 9, 2022

On 4/15/2022 at 1:35 PM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

@BooBear I make homemade ice cream because I enjoy the challenge, and to hear my grandson say "This is better than [Highly regarded local ice cream shop]."

I'm not much into unusual ice cream flavors. For me ice cream is all about texture. Some while ago I made blueberry omani lime ice cream from Nik Sharma's "The Flavor Equation". For which I had to track down and purchase omani limes. The flavor was exquisite, though the grainy texture was off putting. I doubt the recipe will be made again. Sadly in my bedroom I now have an abundant bag of omani limes.

If you are serious about homemade ice cream, consider a Ninja CREAMi.

After reading through all the comments from this one and the 2013 thread I'm definitely amused - and bemused - by your bedroom storage references Jo! And thanks for being around so long on here and sharing your experiences

On 8/13/2021 at 8:51 AM, ccp900 said:

for those who use an immersion cooker to cook your base. how would the temps/times change when you use a mason jar to cook instead of a zip lock bag. im tired of throwing these things out. such a waste!

im going to go use a 1L ball mason jar just to limit the waste but need the insights of those who have shifted. depending on the flavor and my mood i use 3 temps/times. 65c for 1 hour / 75c for 30 mins / 85c for 5 mins. these are all usinf zip lock bags though, i am wondering how it will change going to mason jars

Hey CCP, sorry to dig from so long ago but did you end up adopting this method? I'm worried about the ziplocks letting water in with an improper seal (dread from poor sous vide vacuum sealers)

paulraphael · December 13, 2022

On 12/5/2022 at 2:22 AM, Mars said:

Awesome to see you here Underbelly!

I'm looking for insight into atomised glucose after reading through and trialing a recipe from Corvitto's 'The Secrets of Ice Cream' and I looked around the site a bit but couldn't find a clear answer. The book notes that 21 DE Atomised Glucose would be a 21% dextrose and 79% 'starch' composition, which I inferred would be corn starch as they're both derivatives of corn. However, just below the explanation of atomised glucose is the section on corn starch that states that 'it is rarely used due to it's tendecy to form lumps, especially during the freezing phase'. I'm under the impression that there is a underlying process to create atomised glucose above just mixing the two components in a bowl; and I can confirm the texture of my sorbet is grainy when I attempted it. The product is prohibitively expensive here in Australia as far as I know ($14.85 for 130g???) so I was hoping it'd be simple to create at home. I thought I'd ask here, but I'm guessing it isn't.

Hi, sorry for the late reply. Just saw your post.

You've gotten the right answers on making your own. It would not be a cornstarch blend, but rather an enzymatic process that I've never heard of anyone doing at home.

I feel your pain on the cost. Atomized glucose is supposed to be cheap. The crazy prices are because of global supply chain woes. I don't have a clue about the details of this, but it was confirmed by a food scientist I spoke to at a national ice cream brand. They're scrambling to find more affordable alternatives.

I find it baffling that prices would be high even in the US, where we have a permanent corn glut. But maybe most of the glucose powders are produced in China? Who knows.

Mars · December 13, 2022

8 hours ago, paulraphael said:

Hi, sorry for the late reply. Just saw your post.

You've gotten the right answers on making your own. It would not be a cornstarch blend, but rather an enzymatic process that I've never heard of anyone doing at home.

I feel your pain on the cost. Atomized glucose is supposed to be cheap. The crazy prices are because of global supply chain woes. I don't have a clue about the details of this, but it was confirmed by a food scientist I spoke to at a national ice cream brand. They're scrambling to find more affordable alternatives.

I find it baffling that prices would be high even in the US, where we have a permanent corn glut. But maybe most of the glucose powders are produced in China? Who knows.

Hey @paulraphael,

No worries! I'll find ways around using it for now, which is usually a mix of maltodextrin and dextrose. I also picked up some trimoline so can experiment there too. Also those prices are to Australia so it probably isn't nearly as bad in the US, I'm finding costs to here from everywhere to be really high recently.

On another note, I've ordered the components for your stabliser mixes to arrive sometime later this week I hope, my sous vide came yesterday and I'm excited to trial your methods and recipes. My girlfriend is a Q Arabica Grader so when I saw how you came to develop your coffee ice cream method to faithfully align with how baristas make filter coffee I was super excited. She taught me to brew at home with 94C water and a 30 second bloom then brew with the rest of the water, and you're just doing that in a ziplock with the milk and cream instead then rapid cooling it to prevent over brewing. That's genius! I'm pumped to experiment and combine knowledge bases with my GF and perhaps run with that. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes, and will post it on the blog too.

I gotta make a batch first of course...

Mars · December 18, 2022

On 12/14/2022 at 1:09 AM, Mars said:

On another note, I've ordered the components for your stabliser mixes to arrive sometime later this week I hope, my sous vide came yesterday and I'm excited to trial your methods and recipes. My girlfriend is a Q Arabica Grader so when I saw how you came to develop your coffee ice cream method to faithfully align with how baristas make filter coffee I was super excited. She taught me to brew at home with 94C water and a 30 second bloom then brew with the rest of the water, and you're just doing that in a ziplock with the milk and cream instead then rapid cooling it to prevent over brewing. That's genius! I'm pumped to experiment and combine knowledge bases with my GF and perhaps run with that. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes, and will post it on the blog too.

I gotta make a batch first of course...

Discovering this recipe a few weeks ago I appreciated the way you replicated pour-over brewing complete with a low volume bloom, appropriate temperatures, and consideration for over-brewing by shock cooling the mix after the brew duration transpired.

I finally got my shipment of stablisers and approached this recipe and I tell you that although I understood the steps individually I certainly underestimated the time and effort to execute all of them in succession, it's intensive for sure! I didn't have Pedro Ximenez so opted to add 0.3g of citric acid and was terrified I'd ruined the batch once I tasted it pre-pasteurising. However, it tempered down by the end although it did push the acidity a little too far but I like my filter coffee on that end anyway.

The aromatics of the beans are faithfully captured in the result as I'd hoped! I'll definitely be making a few batches with different beans. My GF is a Q Arabica Grader so I'm really excited to learn on her knowledge and experience so that I'll be able to push the boat out with high quality and more obscure beans now that I understand the process here. It definitely pays off!

I'll probably approach a cold-brew sorbet at some point and trial your stabliser ratio for those as well. I'll let you know

Thank you so much, @paulraphael!

Lieuwe · January 22, 2023

First post of the new year!

A while… well… two years ago I got my hands on a Nemox 3000 and shared some pictures of the ice cream I was making, in this forum.

Just a few days ago I was able to attain a different way of icemaking. You’d probably think Paco. But no, also this time a Nemox. And more specifically, a Frixair frx 180.

So, I’ll be making icecream the other way around and will share some pictures, when interested.

You can certainly do more things with it, but this is the icecream department and I’ll stick to that.

Lieuwe · January 22, 2023

Ok, I think I can sell my other machine 😀

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