Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 9)

[rotuts]

I put cheese in Ck.Breasts that ive trimmed and cut 1/2 way then pounded a little to get them a bit flat.

 

Ive used swiss // mortadella // salami   to good effect.  I have not used meat glue, just tied them back up to keep their shape as i add them to 

 

the bag.  Ive tried to stuff most of the stuffing into the center as I tie them up.   they might be pics up stream on this thread  

 

some of the cheese melts into the bag, but not much.  when I cut the reheated CkBr 'on the plate' there is plenty of cheese

 

left in the center.   this is one of my favorite SV ck breasts.

 

take the time to remove the tendon on the 'tender' and the remaining tendon  I its very thin  on the larger Ck Br

 

makes all the difference "On the Plate"

[jono1885]

Hey everyone!

 

Novice SV'er here. Have a "minute roast" about 1.5 in" thick in my freezer and wanted to prepare SV and finish on the grill. Does anyone have any time and temp recommendations?

 

Thanks in advance for the help!

[gfweb]

I'm not sure what cut a minute roast is, but there are SV times for everything at  http://forums.egullet.org/topic/136274-sous-vide-index/

 

I think that I'd probably sear it on a screaming hot cast iron pan rather than a grill so as to get the fastest sear while minimizing further cooking of the interior.  Grill marks could be added at the last moment if desired.

[Anna N]

Hey everyone!

 

Novice SV'er here. Have a "minute roast" about 1.5 in" thick in my freezer and wanted to prepare SV and finish on the grill. Does anyone have any time and temp recommendations?

 

Thanks in advance for the help!

My research suggests this is from the top of the foreleg of beef or perhaps elsewhere in the front end. If true it is probably tough and it's going to need many hours. It seems to be largely a kosher product. I'm very curious so if anyone knows can they please chip in.

[agent00F]

Hi, just wondering if anyone's got experience with various types/brands of bags at higher temperatures. The issue I'm running into now is that Ziploc freezers start leaking at the corners/edges once the temp edges towards and past 70deg C. Perhaps there's a better/sturdier brand? I prefer using water displacement for most things to vaccum bags which tend to crush food and get messy with liquids. Maybe those hold up better since they do seem "thicker", but the plastic itself seems fine so it's the specific construction that's the issue

 

I searched and wasn't able to find much on the topic. Thanks.

[paulraphael]

Hi, just wondering if anyone's got experience with various types/brands of bags at higher temperatures. The issue I'm running into now is that Ziploc freezers start leaking at the corners/edges once the temp edges towards and past 70deg C. Perhaps there's a better/sturdier brand? I prefer using water displacement for most things to vaccum bags which tend to crush food and get messy with liquids. Maybe those hold up better since they do seem "thicker", but the plastic itself seems fine so it's the specific construction that's the issue

 

I searched and wasn't able to find much on the topic. Thanks.

Interesting. I use the ziplock freezer bags regularly at 85C, and once at 90. Never had a leak. Maybe there are conisistency issues from one batch to the next?

 

One possibility is to to use the open bag method. Let the water seal the bag, and secure the tops of the bags to the edge of the container or to some kind of rack with a bulldog clip.

Edited May 23, 2014 by paulraphael (log)

[paulraphael]

What are people's favorite temperatures for wild salmon?

 

And has anyone found a good way to cook SV with the skin on, for crisping up afterwards? I notice the approaches in MC all advocate removing the skin and cooking separately.

[agent00F]

Interesting. I use the ziplock freezer bags regularly at 85C, and once at 90. Never had a leak. Maybe there are conisistency issues from one batch to the next?

 It's usually not too bad until it goes a few hours near 80 or so, which is necessary for stuff like tendon or oxtail. The "leak" is slow and almost like a diffusion where you see some flavor in the water.

I'm mostly concerned because I just got an immersion circulator so the liquid comes in contact w/ the machine whereas I've been using a controlled slow-cooker before.

 

[weedy]

What are people's favorite temperatures for wild salmon?

 

And has anyone found a good way to cook SV with the skin on, for crisping up afterwards? I notice the approaches in MC all advocate removing the skin and cooking separately.

the skin acts as an insulator on that side, so longer cooking times become necessary, and that way lies 

'mushy', when it comes to fish

 

I'd do salmon at about 110F

[rotuts]

re: salmon

 

i love salmon  I used to get stunningly fresh salmon from Cook's Seafood in Menlo Park CA

 

the fish came in that AM, and always passed the sniff test  :  sniffed of the Sea  Not the Shore !

 

(everything did there .  after a few hours, it went into their small Fish and CHips restaurant.  right there it

 

was !

 

consider that your salmon is actually two Fishes in One

 

the Tail Area that works for a living  and the part just below the head:  it goes along for the Ride.

 

say 50 : 50

 

the tasty part is closest to the Head.  it has a lot of fat

 

not so fatty is the tail

 

Id cook them differently  :

 

a good tranche from the head area, filleted  Id start with a hot thick pan, skin side down, until you get  a bit of color on the skin

 

flip   finish in an oven  where the temp of that oven determines how long it stays in there.

 

you want the flesh to be 'warm' in the middle of these puppies.

 

the tail ( 50 % ) Id do as weedy suggests SV w fresh herbs and a bit of really good olive oil  ( Dill ? thinly sliced garlic ? )

 

just to the salmon getting to 110

 

Just for Me  :  I used to eat a lot of "sashimi" from the head area from Cook's Seafood.

 

a bit of a No No as Salmon is both a sea water and fresh water fish.

 

Id give a lot for some of that Cook's Seafood home make sashimi right now 

 

Edited May 23, 2014 by rotuts (log)

[KennethT]

What are people's favorite temperatures for wild salmon?

 

And has anyone found a good way to cook SV with the skin on, for crisping up afterwards? I notice the approaches in MC all advocate removing the skin and cooking separately.

I do salmon usually once a week - I set the circulator to 115, and use SVDash to calculate when to remove from the bath when the core hits 100.  I then let it sit out for a minute or two, then torch the top.  This yields a texture that many people like - slightly more cooked on the outside, but very moist and just flaking on the inside, consistently.  This is skin-off though... I haven't played with skin-on.

[rotuts]

P.S.:

 

if you are not buying whole fish

 

get the cut's that closest to the Head.

 

look at those pieces and the tail end pieces :  the head area is usually a bit lighter indicating more fat.

 

[paulraphael]

I do salmon usually once a week - I set the circulator to 115, and use SVDash to calculate when to remove from the bath when the core hits 100.  I then let it sit out for a minute or two, then torch the top.  This yields a texture that many people like - slightly more cooked on the outside, but very moist and just flaking on the inside, consistently.  This is skin-off though... I haven't played with skin-on.

 

What are your experiences with SV Dash? I just downloaded it. The concept is great, but I can't explain the gigantic discrepancies between its recommended times and the tables in Modernist Cuisine.

 

For example, for a 1" thick steak brought to 54C in a 55C bath, starting at 5C, the MC table predicts 34 minutes and SV Dash predicts 55 minutes. Over 60% off. 

[KennethT]

I find it very reliable and have been a big fan since I started using it. One thing that is not good is its doneness descriptions - so I put in manual mode and set the temps myself. Also, it will change times based on whether you want pasteurization or not, and also the shape is an important variable. To tell the truth, I never use the tables in MC - I used to use the EG tables nathanm posted years ago before the SV dash - but ever since I got it, I haven't used them.

I don't have my ipad here with me right now - I'll be able to check out my results with my settings in about an hour or so, and then I'll report back with my findings.

[paulraphael]

Do you not use Nathan's tables because you found them unreliable, or because they're harder to use?

 

According to my comparison, if the MC tables are accurate then the SV Dash times will work. They'll just be overkill, by a lot. But if the SV Dash times are accurate, the MC tables have serious problems. Which I'd think we would have heard people screaming about by now, right?

Edited May 24, 2014 by paulraphael (log)

[paulraphael]

Some more cooking time puzzles. I picked up some Berkshire pork chops for a lunch tomorrow. I'm used to loin chops, but they had some beautifully marbled shoulder/butt steaks. The butcher told me I had to try those ... that the flavor was even better than the loin.

 

I'm used to butt as a brazing cut, and assumed they'd require a long cook. But she said she cooks them up fast on the grill and they're as tender as you could ever hope for. I remain skeptical. And she didn't know much about sous-vide.

 

I've got them in a 59°C bath right now, and plan to try them after 2 hours. If still tough I'll go for 6, or go overnight.

 

Has anyone tried this cut before? The only thing I've SV'd is a similar quality kurobuta chop from the short loin, which was predictably tender as soon as it came to temp.

 

I noticed that Doug Baldwin gives times of 7 hours for chops from the rib end, and 10 hours for chops from the sirloin end. I find this curious, since with conventional cooking I don't treat these cuts so differently.

 

Thoughts?

Edited May 25, 2014 by paulraphael (log)

[dunham]

What are your experiences with SV Dash? I just downloaded it. The concept is great, but I can't explain the gigantic discrepancies between its recommended times and the tables in Modernist Cuisine.

 

For example, for a 1" thick steak brought to 54C in a 55C bath, starting at 5C, the MC table predicts 34 minutes and SV Dash predicts 55 minutes. Over 60% off. 

 

 

My copy of MC@Home has a recipe for a 1" strip steak that says it takes 50 minutes to reach 54C in a 55C bath.  This seems consistent with Sous Vide Dash. (I think this is around p.194 - I'm working out of the ebook, so I'm not 100% sure.)

 

Unfortunately I don't have a copy of MC, but I'm curious why there is a discrepancy between MC and MC@Home.  Do they say how they derived those tables?

 

Sous Vide Dash is based on the models given in Baldwin's guide. I recently implemented Baldwin's models myself, and I get numbers consistent with Sous Vide Dash, so I believe it's an accurate implementation those models.  Baldwin has done experiments to verify that his model works, so it shouldn't be too inaccurate.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I've been very pleased with Baldwin's tables for chicken, beef, and pork.

 

 

I was going to do chicken breasts tonight,

But I have leftovers to eat,

And daiquiris to try before I sleep.

And daiquiris to try before I sleep.

[KennethT]

Do you not use Nathan's tables because you found them unreliable, or because they're harder to use?

 

According to my comparison, if the MC tables are accurate then the SV Dash times will work. They'll just be overkill, by a lot. But if the SV Dash times are accurate, the MC tables have serious problems. Which I'd think we would have heard people screaming about by now, right?

I stopped using the tables just because the dash app is just so convenient.

I checked using my settings, and I, too, got 55 minutes versus MCs 34 minutes. I don't know why there is such a discrepancy. I do know that when I do salmon on a routine basis, using the temps discussed above, it comes out extremely accurately, consistently, regardless of the thickness which varies from week to week when using the app.

[rotuts]

""    I do know that when I do salmon on a routine basis, using the temps discussed above, it comes out extremely accurately, consistently, regardless of the thickness which varies from week to week when using the app. ""

 

Salmon, and soft flake fish are an exception to the various rle.

 

you can after all enjoy it w No Minutes in the bath, at room temp or cooler. sliced thin as sashimi.

• Like This

 

[paulraphael]

Dave Arnold and Co. at cookingissues.com made some remarks about SV salmon that I haven't seen elsewhere. In their chart they found different ranges where they liked the texture, separated by ranges that had flaws.

 

I don't know how much of this is quirks of their tasting panel, or of the variety / sample of fish they used. I'm looking at other people's recommendations and they're all over the place.

 

No comment yet from me because I've yet to try it. I'm hoping to get really close on the first try, because the only salmon I really like (culinarily and ecologically) costs a bunch.

[rotuts]

very nice chart

 

thanks

 

salmon does indeed cost a bunch.  even the stuff that smells of the Shore.  

 

the stuff that smells of the Fresh Sea, not the Shore, no matter what it costs is very difficult to find.  where I live, fresh salmon costs 

 

between 15 and 20 and lbs, and Sniff Testing is discouraged.  havent had it in quite a while.

[paulraphael]

It's a nice chart, and I'm wondering how well it corresponds with other people's experience with salmon ... like the "too toothy" range of temperatures. I haven't heard that elsewhere.

[KennethT]

hmm.. I don't know about that chart.  I won't reiterate what I said before, but I'll add a caveat: I remove the skin and blood line prior to cooking as I think they can be fishy.  Also, since I'm using the 'gradient' method, I don't  know what the exact core temp is by the time it hits the plate/table.  Once it hits 100, I'll take it out of the bath, but it will typically sit on a plate (in the sealed bag) for a minute or two while I'm getting the sides and rest of the plate ready.  Then, I'll take it out of the bags and torch - so it may be possible that the core increased a couple degrees in that time.

 

I'll add something else with the gradient method - it works great when I do it for 2 people - but I'd have to modify it if doing it for a group - since the timing of getting all the pieces out of the bags, plating, etc. would probably be longer for say 8 people than for 2, which will change the core temp.

 

One more thing - an anecdote... many years ago, I read Eric Ripert's "A Return to Cooking" - I was a huge fan of it in my pre-SV days...  when cooking fish, he always recommended using a thin metal skewer - inserting into the center of the fish, and then touching it to your lip.  The fish is done when it feels slightly warm to your lip - which makes sense with the 100 degree range (just above body temp)

[basquecook]

ok, so assume someone has the ability to cook a proper burger, what portion of the burger does physic say will be "medium to beyond well done" compared to what portion of a deep fried, grilled, boiled burger will be.   Obviously, there is a number because it's science and physics involved. And you said significant.. So what are the numbers. 

 

To be honest, it sounds very much like those infomercials where the woman is having trouble cracking an egg without her fancy, plastic egg cracker selling for $19.99..  . 

Edited May 30, 2014 by basquecook (log)