Possibly stupid question about ice, shaking, dilution, and volume of liquid

[lesliec]

Brilliant - thanks, FP, PV and Chris.

I've only acquired a nice mixing glass in the last week or two and I'm giving it a good workout. Just to complicate matters, my Hawthorn fits it perfectly!

Edited October 23, 2013 by lesliec (log)

[Plantes Vertes]

Unless you feel it's important for the world to know about your Julep strainer you can probably just go with that then!

[lesliec]

Ah, but having both available confers a certain je ne sais quoi, don't you think?

[Hassouni]

I find a hawthorne a necessity but a julep strainer a luxury. Straining out of a shaker tin with a julep strainer just makes a mess.

As for fine-straining, I usually don't do it, especially for summery, overly citrusy drinks.

[Plantes Vertes]

In days before shopoholism compelled me to acquire All Bar Gadgets, I found a tea strainer could do the job of all of these things...

[Hassouni]

In days before shopoholism compelled me to acquire All Bar Gadgets, I found a tea strainer could do the job of all of these things...

That's exactly what I use.

PS: experiment with a Holland Razor Blade (2 gin .75 SS and lemon each, so 3.5 oz) proved inconclusive. I used the Tavolo cubes, but they were rather warm and wet (since I had just put more trays in with boiling water. However, the 3.5 oz came to an acceptable level in the V glass, so I imagine when I have some properly cold cubes, it'll be even better

[haresfur]

I think the problem is the conical glass. It's really a terrible shape for a number of reasons, not the least of which is how easy it is to slosh and spill. But as you found out, you are close to the rim with only 2/3 of the stated content, and 5/6 is too close. If you had a cylindrical glass you would have nearly 6 oz before the level got too close to the rim. It's like the classic 16 oz beer glass that only contains 12 oz when filled to 1/2 inch from the rim. Good for bar owners, not so good for patrons.

[weinoo]

Making your freezer a little warmer. Boiling the water before freezing it also helps.

I used the Tavolo cubes, but they were rather warm and wet (since I had just put more trays in with boiling water.

Hasn't the whole boiling the water to make ice thing been disproved?

Here's a good article on making clear ice.

I think Chris A. also has experimented successfully with the cooler method.

[Rafa]

I should have known to go straight to Kevin Liu.

[Adam George]

I would wager that adding warm to hot water to a nice cube tray would produce clearer ice than cool tap water as it will take longer to freeze.

[dcarch]

Made a block of clear ice. I tried to wash away the frost on the surface and ended up with a crack inside.

dcarch

[Hassouni]

How'd you do that?

Also, I pulled the trigger on these:

http://www.fishseddy.com/browse.cfm/4,2071.html

I finally got fed up with drinks sloshing out of the martini glasses.

[Rafa]

Those are the ones I use at home. Nice and sturdy. By the way, since I believe you live in NYC, Fishs Eddy has a storefront in the Flatiron district.

[Hassouni]

Those are the ones I use at home. Nice and sturdy. By the way, since I believe you live in NYC, Fishs Eddy has a storefront in the Flatiron district.

I wished I lived in NYC. I live in DC, but go to NY a few times a year (hence my knowledge of the bars there). DC has NO decent resto/bar supply shops.

[choux]

Only somewhat related but can't think of anywhere else to ask:

Looking at the website of a new local-ish distillery, for their gin cocktails they say to keep the gin in the freezer so you don't need to add ice. Recipe simply states to put ingredients into shaker, shake, strain and serve. No ice. Now i know I'm still new to cocktails, but I thought the water dilution was also considered an 'ingredient'. I am very disinclined to buy their products after reading this on their site.

[KD1191]

Only somewhat related but can't think of anywhere else to ask:

Looking at the website of a new local-ish distillery, for their gin cocktails they say to keep the gin in the freezer so you don't need to add ice. Recipe simply states to put ingredients into shaker, shake, strain and serve. No ice. Now i know I'm still new to cocktails, but I thought the water dilution was also considered an 'ingredient'. I am very disinclined to buy their products after reading this on their site.

 

Well, I might observe that the distiller has likely pre-diluted the product in the bottle, as more than a few put out 80 proof gin, compared to the 90+ of most traditional London Dry.

[Shalmanese]

Only somewhat related but can't think of anywhere else to ask:

Looking at the website of a new local-ish distillery, for their gin cocktails they say to keep the gin in the freezer so you don't need to add ice. Recipe simply states to put ingredients into shaker, shake, strain and serve. No ice. Now i know I'm still new to cocktails, but I thought the water dilution was also considered an 'ingredient'. I am very disinclined to buy their products after reading this on their site.

You need to add chilled water to reach the appropriate dilution. I did some experiments in another thread

[Kohai]

To throw a log on the fire: the conventional 25% dilution tastes way too hot/sour/sweet to my palate these days. At Marvel we usually dilute 50% minimum; some shaken drinks are diluted as much as 80-90%. In other words a 90ml cocktail would measure just shy of 170ml after shaking.

 

Most things benefit from the addition of water. Exactly how much is personal preference. 

[Rafa]

More and more bartenders I talk to seem to agree with you. At my bar we still aim for 25% but I vary it by drink and try to by palate.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Through a tragic oversight tonight's white mai tai was lacking a full ounce of rum.  I over compensated with a generous pour a lot of l'Espirit.  And then, umm, some other things.  It wasn't until much of the ice had melted that the beverage bloomed and everything was in balance.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Actually, no, my original white mai tai was spot on.  For some reason I got confused.  Anyhow it all worked out in the end.

[EvergreenDan]

More and more bartenders I talk to seem to agree with you. At my bar we still aim for 25% but I vary it by drink and try to by palate.

I'm not in sync with this trend. I like the "bite" of a high-alcohol drink.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I'm not in sync with this trend. I like the "bite" of a high-alcohol drink.

 

You might have liked my mai tai...does one measure dilution by weight or volume?

[Shalmanese]

To throw a log on the fire: the conventional 25% dilution tastes way too hot/sour/sweet to my palate these days. At Marvel we usually dilute 50% minimum; some shaken drinks are diluted as much as 80-90%. In other words a 90ml cocktail would measure just shy of 170ml after shaking.

 

Most things benefit from the addition of water. Exactly how much is personal preference.

You can easily test this by just letting a rocks drink sit for a while. Most drinks I've tried, there's maybe a slight improvement 30s to 1 minute after it's served, but it definitely starts to go downhill after 2 minutes. I can't think of many drinks I find improved at 50 - 90% dilution. Can you give an example of a cocktail you prepare at 90% dilution?

Edited December 31, 2014 by Shalmanese (log)

[Craig E]

Are people are using (at least) two ways of talking about dilution in percentages here?

When the 25% figure is thrown around, does that mean that a quarter of the finished drink is added water? Or is it a percentage of the initial mix (as is clearly intended when people are talking about 90% etc.)?