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ronnie_suburban

Curing and Cooking with Ruhlman & Polcyn's "Charcuterie" (Part 2)

594 posts in this topic

Ok kiddies -- need some advice here...

Below is an 8 lb boned out leg of lamb that I have in the fridge using Jason's method..

How long should I fridge such a large piece - Jason has 14 + 7...

Also how long do you think this thing will need to hang for?

Thanks.

Mark

gallery_33268_2905_941544.jpg

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Got my Chirizo done yesterday too... here are the photos...

gallery_33268_2905_735577.jpg

gallery_33268_2905_331153.jpg

gallery_33268_2905_724326.jpg

I am hoping -- please no mold... had success with my tuscan - no mold... so hopefully....

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I can't help with the science, I'm afraid, Abra, but I do know the alchemy: here's the cocktaildb.com link for the CR #2.

Chris, I'm not understanding the oil part of the smoked salt.  You made a slurry with oil?  Or did you mean you just oiled the bowl?

Having read that earlier attempts to smoke salt didn't work, I thought I needed to create some sort of pellicle and just tossed the salt with 1 t of peanut oil, so that it wasn't greasy but had a little tack.

Looking good, mdbasile! No thoughts about the lamb, but I'm watching with great interest.


Chris Amirault

camirault@eGstaff.org

eG Ethics Signatory

Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

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Actually, I went back and read that part of the book as soon as I read that post.  For fuzzy green mold Michael says take no chance and throw it out.

I don't recall that i was so absolute. maybe just very cautionary. you can wipe down a moldy sausage with vinegar or brine. the danger is that some of those evil molds can penetrate the skin and get into the sausage, in which case throwing it out is prudent. but after washing them down, examine the casing to ensure it's intact and you've got all the mold. but once the mold has started, it's tough battle.

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Ok kiddies -- need some advice here...

Below is an 8 lb boned out leg of lamb that I have in the fridge using Jason's method..

How long should I fridge such a large piece - Jason has 14 + 7...

Also how long do you think this thing will need to hang for?

Thanks.

Mark

Mark, I just checked my notes. I had a 5.5 lb bone in leg and cured it in the refrigerator for 14 days. Not sure about hang time for a boneless. Maybe Abra can give you her time. Mine was in for about 60 days.


Dave Valentin

Retired Explosive Detection K9 Handler

"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son.

"Got what backwards?" I ask.

"What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

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Actually, I went back and read that part of the book as soon as I read that post.  For fuzzy green mold Michael says take no chance and throw it out.

I don't recall that i was so absolute. maybe just very cautionary. you can wipe down a moldy sausage with vinegar or brine. the danger is that some of those evil molds can penetrate the skin and get into the sausage, in which case throwing it out is prudent. but after washing them down, examine the casing to ensure it's intact and you've got all the mold. but once the mold has started, it's tough battle.

Sorry about that. It does say "to be cautious" not take no chance.


Dave Valentin

Retired Explosive Detection K9 Handler

"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son.

"Got what backwards?" I ask.

"What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

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Also, the greenish jowl bacon has been smoked to near perfection.  Other than than that bizarre color, it turned out wonderfully.

Is the green due to nitrite burn (oxymyoglobin) or from hydrogen peroxide accumulation? Lactic acid in the meat reacting with excessive nitrites can cause oxymyoglobin or lactics reacting with oxygen to produce hydrogen peroxide turning the meat green. So, maybe the cure or cleanliness and temperature issues?

I'm no expert though. Maybe someone can make a more educated guess :cool:


Edited by pounce (log)

My soup looked like an above ground pool in a bad neighborhood.

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Mark - I started with only a 3.5 lb boneless leg of lamb piece. I did the 14+7 cure in the fridge, then after just a little over 2 weeks hanging it had already lost 50% of its weight coming out of the cure. Your bigger piece will take longer, I'm guessing. You might consider cutting it in half. The piece I have makes slices that are just the right size for serving, and I'm thinking that a shorter hang time lessens the likelihood of Evil Molds.

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Also, the greenish jowl bacon has been smoked to near perfection.  Other than than that bizarre color, it turned out wonderfully.

Is the green due to nitrite burn (oxymyoglobin) or from hydrogen peroxide accumulation? Lactic acid in the meat reacting with excessive nitrites can cause oxymyoglobin or lactics reacting with oxygen to produce hydrogen peroxide turning the meat green. So, maybe the cure or cleanliness and temperature issues?

I'm no expert though. Maybe someone can make a more educated guess :cool:

I wish I knew. :sad:

I've used the same method and equipment set-up many times and only produced this result this one time. The only variable here (that I can think of) was that I was using jowls instead of belly. All my equipment was fresh out of the dishwasher, my hands were washed and I actually used cure from a larger batch which I've been working through. I never recycle cure, either. What remains in the vessel after dredging gets tossed, not returned to the bag. I never let anything sit out of refrigeration for more than a few moments at time.

In my mind, I'm going back to that information from UVA's web site, seeing it now with the added perspective of the information you've provided here and wondering if maybe this was an instance of over-curing caused, at least in part, by excessively soft jowl tissue. But, considering that I only dredged the jowls, I'm not sure that over-curing was really a possibility. Perhaps I let the jowls cure too long. I hope to post some pictures later today.

=R=


"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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Tuscan Salami..

Why I need a sausage stuffer....

See the photo below and you can see how the KA tends to mash and grind the fat - loosing the definition. This has happened before and my Tuscan was good, but the definition of the fat is not what I like!!!

gallery_33268_2905_184542.jpg

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Seems like we're all cranking out the good stuff today. I currently have 13 lbs or so of pork belly, spiced with the pancetta recipe, smoking away over apple. If past experiences hold, it should be out in another two hours or so. I can hardly wait, 'cause this is my first shot at savory bacon :raz::biggrin:.

This coming week I'm going to make a new batch of andouille to smoke next weekend. I will get this right, dammit!! New recipe is almost identical to Ron's posted up thread, both based on variations of Folse's. Then we'll try another batch of jambalaya, hopefully with dramatically improved results :wacko:.


"My only regret in life is that I did not drink more Champagne." John Maynard Keynes

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See the photo below and you can see how the KA tends to mash and grind the fat - loosing the definition. This has happened before and my Tuscan was good, but the definition of the fat is not what I like!!!

Mark, not sure whether this is your problem or not, but I had very uneven results trying to use the fat that comes on the meat. Unless you get rid of virtually all of the soft, elastic connective tissue, it will clog up your grinder and begin to smear. My solution was to trim the butts free of almost all fat and go to 100% fatback for the fat. I also have the fatback almost frozen when I grind it. Works like a charm, and I'm also using the KA to grind (but not to stuff). FWIW.


"My only regret in life is that I did not drink more Champagne." John Maynard Keynes

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I have to report a little guanciale thrill I had yesterday.

We met a friend for appetizers and drinks at a nice Italian place in Seattle, and we ordered the cured meat platter.  I had brought a chunk of my guanciale for our friend, and thought to open the package and give him a slice to try with the restaurant's house-cured meat.  Just then the server happened along.  Busted!  Would there be a corkage fee for guanciale?

I quickly sliced a piece for her and one to send to the chef.  Later she reported to me that the chef had given his slice a quick sear, eaten it, and said "I'd be happy to sell this here."  Woohoo.  I actually thought it was brave of him to eat meat cured by some anonymous customer, but that raised my esteem for him several notches.

Very cool!! You should be very proud!

Is this a very nice Italian place on a corner..downtown?

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See the photo below and you can see how the KA tends to mash and grind the fat - loosing the definition. This has happened before and my Tuscan was good, but the definition of the fat is not what I like!!!

Mark, not sure whether this is your problem or not, but I had very uneven results trying to use the fat that comes on the meat. Unless you get rid of virtually all of the soft, elastic connective tissue, it will clog up your grinder and begin to smear. My solution was to trim the butts free of almost all fat and go to 100% fatback for the fat. I also have the fatback almost frozen when I grind it. Works like a charm, and I'm also using the KA to grind (but not to stuff). FWIW.

Thanks. I will try using only the backfat.

I have had absolutely no problem grinding and my meat/fat is almost frozen when I grind. This only seems to happen when I us the KA for stuffing. I think it is the way it works that helps create the smear.

Actually I have really only had the smear problem with the Brats(I think because of all that protein) and the Tuscan. I do, however keep and use as much fat as possible -- maybe even more than called for.

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Does anyone know about how safe it is to taste a mix with DC #2 in it?  I cooked up a bit of the saucisson sec mix, just to test the seasoning, but I thought I could taste the nitrate, so I spit after getting the flavor.  Now, should I make a joke about spitting instead of swallowing, or a joke about needing corpse reviver #2 after tasting DC #2?  I was worried, though, so any science on the subject would be appreciated.

I have eaten mine everytime.. and I am still alive ... well... never thought about it - I hope it is ok.... as for spitting vs swallonwing... I gave a piece of my Tuscan salami for my wife to try... and no she didn't spit it out either... ohhh this could get funny...

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For our charcuterie author ....

To our charcuterie chef....

Just celebrated a nice victory with some serious sausage !!!

Go Pistons !!!!!

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After much frustration with the KA stuffer, I just ordered a 5 lb crank stuffer (per the sausage stuffer thread -- thanks again egulleters!). I have already ground and mixed the spices, Cure #2 and bactoferm for air dried spanish chorizo, but not yet stuffed it. I'd like to use the new stuffer, but it won't be here for a couple days. Can I hold the mix in my fridge for a few days before stuffing? (It's currently in a bowl on ice.) Or can I freeze it? Will that kill the bactoferm? Any suggestions? Am I forced to again use the KA stuffer?

Thanks!

-Melissa

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Once you add salt and spices and grind the meat leaving it in the fridge pretty much turns it to concrete. You'll have to add some water to it to soften it back up, but it should be fine.

jason

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Melissa - I am with Jason -- seems the stuff starts getting hard fast....

BTW here are my Choriz(yesterday) and Tuscan(today)... very fast drying after 24 hrs...

gallery_33268_2905_1135564.jpg

FWIW my Tuscan looks 100% better after sitting "warm" for the 12 hr warm sitting time...

gallery_33268_2905_36087.jpg

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Once you add salt and spices and grind the meat leaving it in the fridge pretty much turns it to concrete. You'll have to add some water to it to soften it back up, but it should be fine.

jason

Yeah, and/or remix it for a few moments with the KA, using the paddle. And make sure you store it in a non-reactive container while you wait for the stuffer to arrive.

=R=


"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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Mark, yes, it was at Tulio, which is a very nice place on the corner, downtown. How did you ever guess that? Your sausages are really looking good!

For the saucisson sec I started yesterday I hand-diced the back fat, to see if the added definition would be nice.

Welcome back, Jason. Thanks so much for that lamb prosciutto recipe - it's a winner.

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Here are a few more images from my 'green' jowl bacon run . . .

gallery_3085_2460_154785.jpg

Greenish jowls, before smoking.

gallery_3085_2460_310438.jpg

Looking much better after smoking for about 3 hours over apple and cherry but the discoloration is still visible in certain areas.

gallery_3085_2460_56158.jpg

A closer look . . . almost good enough to eat. :wink:

gallery_3085_2460_215338.jpg

On the inside, it looks damned near normal.

In my haste, I ate all the pieces I'd cooked before I got a shot of them, but they looked totally normal at that point and they tasted fantastic. I'll try to upload a pic next time I cook some.

=R=


"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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I should add that the worst part about this whole Green Bacon Affair is that I really don't feel like I can share it with anyone -- and I have a lot of the stuff.

I mean, I've eaten it a few times, it's quite delicious and I really doubt that it's unsafe but I just couldn't give it to anyone else without knowing with absolutely certainty that it really isn't harmful. And I just cannot find enough information to get me past that point.

=R=


"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

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