Need some direct advice on knives, cookware, and utensils.

[Eyeage]

Hello Everyone!

Please forgive me, as I really haven't started digging through the site yet. I have a few questions and google hasn't been able to solve my issues (at least not directly, it did lead me here). So, here's a little background and I'll dive right into it.

I'm a novice cook. I do like cooking, and I do it fairly okay (people eat my food and say yum). That said, I couldn't tell you what "cuts" are what, and I couldn't tell you when to use them. I can't really tell you what types of pans you're supposed to use when, etc. As you can see I need a LOT of help. However, I am working to improve myself, and have tossed around the idea of taking some classes.

So, on to the issue at hand. My wife and I just got married 2 weeks ago. We have pretty much crap in our kitchen. We have some old T-fal pots and pans (wal-mart style), Farberware knife set (wal-mart), cheap plates (wal-mart, seeing a trend?), cheap utensils (yep, you guessed it). The list goes on. Basically everything we have is from wal-mart or target. I have one decent knife: This.

With that said, we have decent amount of money to spend at Bed Bath and Beyond (I understand there are better places to shop, but it's where our "credit" is). We have about $1000 worth of a store credit from our wedding. I would like to see how people think we should spend it. I have a few ideas, but I have no clue as to what I'm doing. I hate being an uneducated consumer, and so I turn to you and ask for your help.

Let me make this even harder for you by saying that we plan to use a "20% off entire purchase" coupon. A few important brands are excluded from the coupon. Wusthof, Zwilling, La Creuset, and Shun. All-clad and Henckels international are not restricted.

So..... Thanks for reading to this point, let me ask the "direct" questions now.

We could use the money on a lot of different things, as BBB is a large store with many items. That said, I thought cookware, knives, plates, and kitchen gadgets would work well. We plan to spend a little on some window treatments, but not sure BBB is the place we want to do that. Here are the items I've been looking at, please give me your opinions, and please include suggestions as well.

Knives:

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=14178520

or

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=18589290

(remember I have a santoku already, just not very high quality)

Cookware:

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=17467808

(this purchase would give me a $50 gift card to BBB, and an additional "everyday pan with lid" )

-

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=132355

This set is pushing the amount we want to spend, and there's no gift card, you do get a "lasagna pan" with it, however.

I won't bore you with china selections. We're looking at noritake and denby, leaning towards noritake.

Also, we plan to buy other stuff with our money as well (gadgets and such), so what are some items that are a "must have" for a newbie in the kitchen.

I need to know what everyone thinks about those selections, and hear any suggestions. I'm a neurotic researcher who is extremely indecisive. My wife probably wants to kill me at this point

I thank you for your time and suggestions/feedback!

[dcarch]

Don't blame your knives, pots and pans and plates. The best of them will not make you a better cook.

If I were you, I would not spend any money now. Keep cooking, Read all the posts in this Forum, watch youtube, take a few classes, Give it another year, then buy.

I am sure there will be some who will disagree.

dcarch

Edited August 26, 2012 by dcarch (log)

[Eyeage]

Don't blame your knives, pots and pans and plates. The best of them will not make you a better cook.

If I were you, I would not spend any money now. Keep cooking, Read all the posts in this Forum, watch youtube, take a few classes, Give it another year, then buy.

I am sure there will be some who will disagree.

dcarch

Waiting a year isn't going to go over too well with the Mrs.... She wants the "presents" we got.. ie the "credit". I never blamed my cooking on anything. I said I'm not sure what I'm doing, and we're going to upgrade some stuff in our kitchen, and asked what people thought of my choices or if they'd recommend something else. Not sure where you're getting the idea I blamed my cooking on our utensils.

[dcarch]

"----Not sure where you're getting the idea I blamed my cooking on our utensils."

Let me put it in another way, which is what I was trying to say: You can be a very good cook with lousy utensils.

I am not sure $1,000 is enough for a very good set up that would make you happy for the next ten, twenty years.

$2,000 may be?

That’s why I think it may be a good idea to delay until you absolutely have a definitive plan.

You have done a very good thing by coming here and ask for ideas, and you will get plenty. There are many people here with better knowledge than me.

dcarch

[chefmd]

Buy one item at a time. There are always 20% off one item coupons around. Buy the best quality of whatever it is that you are buying. Trust me, it is cheaper to buy the best in the first place than to keep upgrading later. Spend your money on chef knife (I think 10 inch is better than 8 inch), paring knife, boning knife, 10 inch skillet (regular and non stick), Dutch oven. Get everything else on Craig's list. China is very personal so no advice on that. I have white plates in multiple shapes and sizes.

[Dakki]

What dcarch said.

Also:

Kitchen "sets" in general are only a good buy if you get a fantastic price (talking woot, not BB&B, prices) where you're basically paying for one or two pieces that are exactly what you want and getting the rest for free. If you're going for "best," you're going to have to mix and match cast iron, enameled CI, aluminum, stainless, carbon steel, copper, etc. No one material (or brand) does everything right.

I'm not enamored of Global knives. There are (much) better choices out there for the price. And, a dollar store knife + whetstone are going to be much better in the long run than the world's fanciest knife and no way to sharpen it.

Don't despair, I think $1K is a very generous starter budget if you're willing to do some legwork. Cast iron for example is pretty cheap new and practically free for the taking if you're willing to fix up a rusty, grungy old skillet or dutch oven. Of course, it's not going to cover you for 20 years, particularly if you include appliances or acquire a taste for status brands.

[gfweb]

A restaurant supply store has very functional pans and knives at really cheap prices. Hardware stores have cast iron pans cheap. Amazon has cheap victorinox knives which are highly rated. I'd spend cash for this stuff.

I'd use BBB credit for stuff you can't buy at a restaurant store eg dishes... a Dutch oven... appliances like a food processor or a mixer.

[dcarch]

Half of the $1,000 should go to a Blendtec blender.

The other half should almost be enough for a couple of knives and a sharpening system.

dcarch

[Dakki]

It occurs to me we don't know how/what the OP cooks. I interpret the first post as saying they already have a functional if maybe lackluster kitchen from Target/Wal-Mart; that being the case, they could spend the money on some really nice things that apply directly to their interest. For example, if the were doing a lot of Mexican they'd want a nice heavy griddle, molcajete, tortilla press, a skillet or two, etc. And so on.

[pyrguy]

Second the Victorinox knives. Best bang for the buck out there. Hang on to the gift cards as long as you can. Find out what you like to cook the most and plan gear around those things.

I agree sets are a gamble sometimes. A couple of great pieces and some not so great.

[nibor]

As noted above, we don't know what you like to cook. But for what it is worth, my lousy cooking skills benefited greatly from the purchase of a Le Creuset dutch oven, a Lodge cast iron frying pan, a Victorinox boning knife and an immersion blender. I have never owned a "real" blender, much less a $500 one. I have multiple plastic cutting boards so I can I throw them in the dishwasher after making dinner. If you bake or like to grind your own meat, a standing mixer, like a KitchenAid, with some attachments will eat up some of that BBB money.

[janeer]

I'm not sure some of the advice is the best for what seems to be people literally starting out. Get a Cusinart of at least 7 c capacity; 10" chef's knife, a serrated bread knife, and a paring knife; Victorinox, Henckels, or Chicago Cutlery will be fine for now. A 9" and 12" saute pan; a 3-qt saucepan or "chef's" pan and Dutch oven (Lodge enameled cast iron can sub for Le Cruset for the latter); set of heavy, nested mixing bowls; a 13 x 9 baking dish (pyrex ok); a 9" pie plate which can be used also as a gratin; a good salad bowl. Have the following utensils: good wooden spoons; rubber/silicone spatulas; Microplane; 12" strainer and small strainer; garlic press; sturdy tongs; slotted spoon; large cutting boards (polypropelene); pastry brush; set of non-terry cotton towels. You can pretty much make anything if you have these things.

[Pierogi]

A Blendtec/Vitamix is lovely if you a) make smoothies a lot (A LOT), do modernist things, or think you might need a lot of very smooth sauces/purees/etc. I personally, since I do none of the above, have found the need for one, and at that, I barely use my Oster blender. My immersion blender, however, you would have to rip from my cold, dead hands. Same with my food processor(s) (I have a big Cuiz and a mini-KA). Also my KA stand mixer, although I covet a more powerful one.

Totally agree about not buying sets of anything. Except maybe china and flatware. Kitchen knives, a big chef's, a boning, a paring, a serrated bread knife and maybe a gratoned carver. Pots and pans depend on what you cook, but the Le Crueset French oven of a size that works for your family is a must. Same with a Lodge cast iron skillet. Make sure whatever you buy is heavy for its size. Same for bakeware (sheet pans, 8x8 pans, loaf pans, etc.) Comals are nice for cooking Mexican food, but you can do the same thing in a cast iron skillet or griddle. Molacajetes can be mimicked by a food processor. Don't get too hung up on specialized tools initially. You can add those in as you explore which cuisines you like, and what techniques you feel comfortable with.

Don't waste too much money on non-stick. One skillet will be sufficient, or maybe one large one for delicate things like fish, and a smaller one for eggs & omlettes. Everything else should be either clad stainless steel, copper (if you can afford it) or anondized aluminum.

EDIT----Ummm, that should be I, personally, have NEVER found the need for one, and at that, I barely use my Oster....

My fingers got ahead of my brain. Carry on.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Pierogi (log)

[mgaretz]

BBB has All-clad, Shun and Breville. I'd get a couple of good Shun Classic knives (chef's, nakiri and paring). a couple of All-clad pans (large saute pan (4qt) and a non-stick pan) and spend the rest on the Breville Smart oven.

[mgaretz]

BBB has All-clad, Shun and Breville. I'd get a couple of good Shun Classic knives (chef's, nakiri and paring), a couple of All-clad pans (large saute pan (4qt) and a non-stick pan) and spend the rest on the Breville Smart oven.

[liuzhou]

Again, it depends what you want to cook.

The best cook I know, my sister-in-law, has one wok, one cleaver, one rice cooker and one chopping board. No oven. Her food is heavenly. She cooks Chinese.

She thinks I'm ridiculous for having two knives!

I'd suggest taking things one step at a time.

For example, if you wake up tomorrow and fancy an omelette and think this may be a recurring thought, then go buy an omelette pan. If you never eat omelettes, or only eat them once a year, then don't.

Edited August 26, 2012 by liuzhou (log)

[Lisa Shock]

I think you'd be surprised by the cheap stuff used in most commercial kitchens -$11 knives and bare aluminum pans.

I have lived without a food processor for years, I don't think you need one if you have a good blender and a good knife. As much as I love my Braun stick blender, it takes second place to my Oster classic beehive blender.

I'd get a good, end-grain cutting board, a small cast iron skillet, a large cast iron skillet, and a dutch oven. I would get one non-stick pan for eggs, a slope-sided saucier, maybe a straight sided saucier, and three sizes of steel pans for things that involve boiling water. A wok is very useful (the best popcorn popper made) for a lot of things including deep frying.

For the oven, a pie pan is essential, as are a couple of high-sided ceramic rectangular pans. You'll need a sheet pan and a muffin tin and maybe 2 loaf pans.

Utensil-wise, some silicon spatulas are essential. I'd also get a colander, a ladle, tongs, a big spoon, a ceramic peeler, and a microplane grater (fine).

Knives, you really just need a chef's knife, a paring knife and a bread slicer.

Honestly, I'd seriously consider using some of your credit to get a Dyson vacuum -something I am really glad that I bought at BBB.

[Dakki]

The best cook I know, my sister-in-law, has one wok, one cleaver, one rice cooker and one chopping board. No oven. Her food is heavenly. She cooks Chinese.

She thinks I'm ridiculous for having two knives!

I have a Chinese-Canadian friend on another forum. She claims her mother does a whole comedy skit every time she sees a kitchen knife set in the store. "What do you need so many knives for? One for peeling the onion, one for chopping the onion? God forbid you cut an onion with the CARROT knife!"

She also says Canadian knives are not as good as the ones she used to get in Taiwan. I offered to get her one of these, but apparently gifting knives is a no-no in Chinese culture. Ah well.

[Mjx]

I'm with those who recommend building your selection carefully, and based on what you actually cook.

There are few more annoying things than kitchen packed with items that are never used, but take up space and used the money you could have applied to things you really want and need. For example, I don't have a mixer and doubt I'll be getting one anytime soon, even though I 'Ooh' and 'Aah' over them when I see them in shops; I bake a lot of bread, but my hands and a handheld mixer do everything I need in that department. Egg whites? Same thing. On the other hand, I could think of a number of uses to which i might put a food processor, marble slab, or cleaver (for breaking up chickens and so on, for stock).

Take your time. Think about the things you want and need, and look at the topics discussing them (e.g. there is at least one knife thread that has masses of useful information).

Cook's Illustrated magazine also has product reviews that are particularly helpful when you don't have a lot of experience (e.g. they advise against knife sets, which are often bloated and undersized, and recommend building your own, choosing knives you will actually use), and can start feeling overwhelmed by tsunami of hyper-detailed information from experienced enthusiasts; I don't always agree with CI's conclusions, but the do make for an excellent starting point, and since their discussions are very specific and clear, you can easily identify points that may be meaningless to you (e.g. a pan might be downgraded for being very heavy for its size, but you're over 6 feet all and regularly carry whole trees home as firewood).

If you get dishes, make sure you also get a decent selection of usefully-sized serving pieces; it's the sort of thing you can otherwise discover you need at the most aggravating time.

[SylviaLovegren]

For basic information, I'd pick up an older copy of Joy of Cooking. It has a wonderful large reference section that explains cuts of meats, different styles of cooking (braising, boiling, baking, etc.), different types of sugar, flours, spices and herbs, fats, etc. The recipes tend to be a bit old-fashioned or at least not flashy, but they also tend to be foolproof -- it is an excellent resource for basic information about food and cooking with easy to follow recipes.

[gfweb]

A Blendtec/Vitamix is lovely if you a) make smoothies a lot (A LOT), do modernist things, or think you might need a lot of very smooth sauces/purees/etc. I personally, since I do none of the above, have found the need for one, and at that, I barely use my Oster blender. My immersion blender, however, you would have to rip from my cold, dead hands. Same with my food processor(s) (I have a big Cuiz and a mini-KA). Also my KA stand mixer, although I covet a more powerful one.

Totally agree about not buying sets of anything. Except maybe china and flatware. Kitchen knives, a big chef's, a boning, a paring, a serrated bread knife and maybe a gratoned carver. Pots and pans depend on what you cook, but the Le Crueset French oven of a size that works for your family is a must. Same with a Lodge cast iron skillet. Make sure whatever you buy is heavy for its size. Same for bakeware (sheet pans, 8x8 pans, loaf pans, etc.) Comals are nice for cooking Mexican food, but you can do the same thing in a cast iron skillet or griddle. Molacajetes can be mimicked by a food processor. Don't get too hung up on specialized tools initially. You can add those in as you explore which cuisines you like, and what techniques you feel comfortable with.

Don't waste too much money on non-stick. One skillet will be sufficient, or maybe one large one for delicate things like fish, and a smaller one for eggs & omlettes. Everything else should be either clad stainless steel, copper (if you can afford it) or anondized aluminum.

EDIT----Ummm, that should be I, personally, have NEVER found the need for one, and at that, I barely use my Oster....

My fingers got ahead of my brain. Carry on.

Exactly right.

I'd add a copy of Bittman's How to Cook Everything. It is readable and an excellent first cookbook.

[Eyeage]

Honestly, I'd seriously consider using some of your credit to get a Dyson vacuum -something I am really glad that I bought at BBB.

No carpet in my house, only area rugs, and not spending $500 on a vacuum for those

BBB has All-clad, Shun and Breville. I'd get a couple of good Shun Classic knives.

Shun restricted on coupon

Second the Victorinox knives..

Restricted on coupon

Thanks for the information thus far. Some of the posters really got what I was asking. Janeer especially got it, I think. I'm looking for bare bones "what does a newbie need to have when buying quality items". Thanks for the information thus far. I will also look into some of the books/websites suggested. Also, in reference to the knives, I latched on to global because they seem to be the highest quality that is not restricted by the coupon. Maybe you're saying "forget the $50 savings", but hard for us to do. It's also not a "set" of knives as I would describe them. They're 3 knives, and seemingly ones that people say I need. Good chef, pairing, etc.

The cookware set was an idea because none of my pans are very good, and I'd get the set for approximately $300 and a free pan. So, 15 pieces of cookware for $300 seems like a really good deal to me. Even if I don't use every one of them all the time.

Also, let me add another question. I have a smooth top electric oven. I know it's not optimal, but converting to a gas stove isn't an option for us at this time (though will be a point when we build our next house). That said, I've been reading a lot about the dutch ovens/cast iron cookware being too heavy and cracking, or scratching the surface. Can anyone chime in about this? I know the coated seems to decrease the likelihood of scratching, but what about the weight? Thanks in advance.

Edited August 26, 2012 by Eyeage (log)

[liuzhou]

It seems to me that you are actually more interested in maximising your coupons than actually equipping your kitchen to your needs.

While I recognise your budget may be limited, please remember that these coupons, offers and sets are designed to benefit the retailer - never the customer. You'll just end up with a load of stuff you never use, but which the store is happy to get rid of. It's usually always a false saving.

Edited August 26, 2012 by liuzhou (log)

[gfweb]

Sets of pans often appear to be a good deal, but how good a deal is it if you don't use half of them? And you still have to store them somewhere. That $300 spent at a restaurant supply store will go a much longer way.

[Mjx]

. . . .

Also, in reference to the knives, I latched on to global because they seem to be the highest quality that is not restricted by the coupon. Maybe you're saying "forget the $50 savings", but hard for us to do. It's also not a "set" of knives as I would describe them. They're 3 knives, and seemingly ones that people say I need. Good chef, pairing, etc.

If you get a set, make certain that the knives are full size, or that their being less than full size is not a problem for you (e.g. you may not make really wide loaves of bread, or you may seldom use a chef's knife), since one thing that manufacturers often do with sets is to include knives that are a bit shorter than those you get if you buy them separately (this seems to hold true particularly for bread and chef's knives).

Also, let me add another question. I have a smooth top electric oven. I know it's not optimal, but converting to a gas stove isn't an option for us at this time (though will be a point when we build our next house). That said, I've been reading a lot about the dutch ovens/cast iron cookware being too heavy and cracking, or scratching the surface. Can anyone chime in about this? I know the coated seems to decrease the likelihood of scratching, but what about the weight? Thanks in advance.

Glass cooktops (I think that's what you mean..?) are excellent, one of the topics addressed by eG's Dave the Cook in Flameout. I use a big oval Le Creuset Dutch oven on a glass cooktop all the time, and it hasn't scratched yet; I'm just careful to not drag it (or any other pan) over the surface.