Outrageous prices for specialty cookware

[andiesenji]

In today's email, a missive from Williams-Sonoma with this "new" egg poacher.

$99.95 for this on SALE with the regular price $200.00???

Now I do like Calphalon and have several pieces but this is just a bit over the top for me. And it only makes 4 poached eggs.

It's a bit cheaper than the Le Creuset one ($120.00) But considering you can get a Norpro for less than $20.00, I think this falls into the "outrageous" division.

I have an ancient Farberware poaching pan that holds 6 cups and which I think I paid about $20.00 back in the mid-to-late '80s.

And then there is this one which is similar to my old Farberware model and looks to me as if it would work as well and for half the price of the Calphalon.

Any comments?? Anyone else have an example of an overpriced item touted as being "new and improved" or ??

[andiesenji]

Just found this. How many would consider paying $7.99 for a plastic lid?

I just checked and while the jelly jars will fit into the cup holders in my van, neither the pint or quart jars will.

Holding on to a hot jar is not all that easy.

Turn your sound down if you click on the video, the music is loud and (to me) annoying.

My neighbor (visiting and borrowing something) just reminded me of these canning jar mugs. Which her husband likes for beer drinking in the summer.

Oddly, he rarely uses them except when out in the yard...

[HungryC]

I am constantly amazed by the crazy prices in the W-S catalog (and in stores). It's like the entire product selection is being shifted toward wedding/gift registry items, packaged mixes, and wildly overpriced spices...very little left in the WS stores or catalogs for a "real" cook. Sur La Table seems to have a much better selection of "real" cooking items, and frequently at better prices. Still, a place like Fantes or any halfway decent restaurant supply house blows 'em both out of the water.

[gdenby]

I hear a T.V. sales promo: "What do you think this miracle poaching pan is worth? $200? $150? No, if you buy now, you can get the pan, and the 4 ultimate poaching cups (a $50 value by themselves!) for just the low, low price of just $99.95..."

I must admit to a rather pricey purchase. A few years ago, after first seeing Julia Child flip an omelette, I tried to do it several times in my $7 bargain skillet. I noticed her talking about her pan, and searched on line for the maker. When I found them, the price immediately cancelled my desire. The $80 I paid for an All-Clad seemed quite reasonable.

The All Clad did work a lot better than the bargain pan, but I spent several hours buffing it to a mirror finish and it really did work better.

[janeer]

The prices are aimed at the insecure, who need the assurance of a name brand and a high price to tell them that it is "OK" to buy this. It's just like clothing and high-priced brands. Manufacturers know this. And they know that people in the know will buy what is good and well-made, even if it is low-priced (and, if it deserved, if it is high-priced). Think about it: I imagine you have paid top dollar for certain things, and gotten other equally useful/good things for less--because you know what you need/want in cooking equipment, and aren't unsure about it. You buy what works.

[Chris Hennes]

While that's true of the stuff at WS, it's certainly not true of things like Andie's plastic lid: you might be surprised by how much it costs to start up a company and produce a product: there is a LOT of overhead. $7.99 is expensive for a lid, but I bet the company owner's profit margins are slim indeed, after he's paid for manufacturing, storage, shipping, packaging and website design, legal fees, incorporation fees, etc. etc.

[Blues_Cookin]

Over the last 20 years I have spent a small fortune on brand name pans, but a few years ago my brother convinced me to try a few of the Lodge Pole cast iron skillets. Today, 90% of what I cook I do with a cast iron pan that cost about $25. I have a few thousand dollars of other brand name pans getting very bored in the drawer.

[Mjx]

Overhead and prestige may be part of the equation, but I have a hunch the big determining factor is what the target market will bear.

I no longer do conversions from kroner to dollars when I buy cookware in Denmark that I know can be had reasonably priced in the US, it's just too frustrating. For example, in Denmark you pay DKK230, or about USD41 for the Microplane gourmet series (prices include sales tax in DK; if you subtract the 25% sales tax, we're still talking just shy of USD33), while in the US, before tax, the identical grater is USD17. The base cost of Lodge cookware runs about 2.5 what it does in the US. On the other hand, in Denmark, minimum wage for adults is equivalent to about USD18, and most people make more than that, so there are simply a lot more people (percentage-wise) who can take the hit in the wallet.

Not surprisingly, I mule a lot of stuff back from the US every time I go back.

[CaliPoutine]

Overhead and prestige may be part of the equation, but I have a hunch the big determining factor is what the target market will bear.

I no longer do conversions from kroner to dollars when I buy cookware in Denmark that I know can be had reasonably priced in the US, it's just too frustrating. For example, in Denmark you pay DKK230, or about USD41 for the Microplane gourmet series (prices include sales tax in DK; if you subtract the 25% sales tax, we're still talking just shy of USD33), while in the US, before tax, the identical grater is USD17. The base cost of Lodge cookware runs about 2.5 what it does in the US. On the other hand, in Denmark, minimum wage for adults is equivalent to about USD18, and most people make more than that, so there are simply a lot more people (percentage-wise) who can take the hit in the wallet.

Not surprisingly, I mule a lot of stuff back from the US every time I go back.

How much is the cookware that is made in Denmark? I think its scanpan? Also, how much is an ebelskiver pan?

[Mjx]

How much is the cookware that is made in Denmark? I think its scanpan? Also, how much is an ebelskiver pan?

Danish cookware isn't particularly cheap here, either. Pots and pans at Inspiration, a major Danish housewares chain, start at DKK250 (described as a 'god pris' or 'good price') for a chintzy 3.9L enamelled pot by Raadvad, a popular Danish brand, and go up to DKK1000 for the not-exactly-robustly-constructed 15L Raadvad stock pot (as I mentioned, prices in DK, as elsewhere in the the EU, include sales tax: 25% in DK). At the moment, conversion is about DKK5.6/USD1.

Scanpan (despite the name, I don't know whether it's actually a Scandinavian brand) runs

about DKK500 for an 8" frying pan, so the base cost is DKK400. Æbleskive pans aren't specialty items here, so they're available at pretty much all price points, from merely 'Wow, that's a bit spendy for this piece of crap' to 'Well, I might need both kidneys some day.' I believe I've seen the Scanpan one for DKK450, and Inspiration has a Le Creuset one (yeh, I know, don't ask) for DKK800. However, since a lot of people just buy frozen æbleskiver by the bag, and heat them in the oven, the pans can be had for a song, secondhand

ETA: I realize these links are going to be dead in no time, since that's the way retail goes, but the names should still make it fairly easy to find the items/prices (e.g. Raadvad, inspiration.dk), if you're curious.

[Edward J]

While that's true of the stuff at WS, it's certainly not true of things like Andie's plastic lid: you might be surprised by how much it costs to start up a company and produce a product: there is a LOT of overhead. $7.99 is expensive for a lid, but I bet the company owner's profit margins are slim indeed, after he's paid for manufacturing, storage, shipping, packaging and website design, legal fees, incorporation fees, etc. etc.

Ehhh....No.

I 0/0 a small chocoalte store. If I try to sell my chocolates at a higher price than the drugstroe chocolates, I need a pretty good reason for doing so--like higher quality chocolate or higher quality ingredients. If I don't have a good reason for doing so, I'd be bankrupt.

[Chris Hennes]

And if you sold your chocolates at less than your operating cost, you'd be bankrupt then, too. If the market can't bear that minimum price, you're screwed.

[Edward J]

Absolutely!

However, I am the only one who markets and distributes my products-- no one else is taking my stuff and adding on 355-50% before passing it on to the next distributer or retailer.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I believe in very few specialty pieces, preferring multipurpose pieces. Does anyone really have space for a different piece of equipment for every process?

I can't overstate my preference for scavenging the second hand market, from thrift stores to garage and estate sales. Much of the time the quality of the old stuff is better than new products; this is certainly true of cast iron. The grain, or texture of the iron, is vastly superior in dutch ovens and pans from the early to mid-1900s, and they can be resurrected and will last forever.

What really amuses me with the WS catalog is the seasonality of colors. Did I know that I need a green or orange or blue stand mixer? or set of silicon spatulas? I am so out of the loop!

[Chris Hennes]

Absolutely!

However, I am the only one who markets and distributes my products-- no one else is taking my stuff and adding on 355-50% before passing it on to the next distributer or retailer.

Right: and my point is that while that applies to the stuff being sold at Williams Sonoma, it doesn't apply to stuff like the plastic lid that Andie linked to above: it's a product that they had to develop, manufacture, market, etc. etc. (I'm not arguing the merit of the product, just rationalizing its price!) It's a totally different beast from a $200 egg poacher sold by WS, and I think their $7.99 price tag is not at all "outrageous." I wouldn't pay it, but I think it's completely reasonable.

[andiesenji]

I do see your point Chris. However, I would expect to get two for that price, which would prompt me to buy.

I've seen a fair number of start-up businesses that produce somewhat similar accessories and while they work at a loss in the beginning, offering a better buy increases their gross sales and gives them a greater profit later.

[jrshaul]

I think Cutco pretty much wins the blue ribbon for overpriced knives. I've had very good luck with my el-cheapo Victorinox, which probably would sell for more money had they not branded it the same as a keychain gadget.

Over the last 20 years I have spent a small fortune on brand name pans, but a few years ago my brother convinced me to try a few of the Lodge Pole cast iron skillets. Today, 90% of what I cook I do with a cast iron pan that cost about $25. I have a few thousand dollars of other brand name pans getting very bored in the drawer.

I have one of those. It's really good. I'd buy a T-shirt, except that then I'd have to ask awkward questions about the name.

Anyone know where I can get a "Hobart" shirt?

Edited March 7, 2012 by jrshaul (log)

[slkinsey]

For the most part, certain brands (ahem, All-Clad) have gigantic advertising budgets and swanky detail design in order to convince people that they are "the best." So they charge extra-high prices for them, which ironically reinforces the belief in certain buyers that they are getting "the best," which in turn promotes brand loyalty. Some, or perhaps even many of the most notoriously overpriced brands are actually very, very good products. But of course still ridiculously overpriced. Why on earth would someone need a $100 egg poacher made out of anodized aluminum when a crappy stainless steel pan and a few cheap egg poaching baskets do the job equally well (or better!) for ten bucks? Or just use your own pan and only buy the poaching baskets! Oh, I see... this one is made by Calphalon and costs a zillion dollars because its "the best." So, from what I can tell, the outrageously high prices for specialty cookware come when already overpriced manufacturers make these items. All-Clad and Calphalon (et al.) are hardly going to start charging less for their wares just because their egg poachers can't possibly work any better than ones costing 10% as much.

This is exactly the reason I wrote my paper on cookware physics, so that people might have some basis of knowing what they're getting and some basis to decide whether it makes sense to spend $100 bucks on that All-Clad pan or $60 bucks on that other pan with effectively the same composition. This also lets us understand that certain pans are just going to be more expensive. Stainless lined heavy copper will always be more expensive than a stainless pan with an aluminum disk bottom. It's up to you to decide whether the big difference in price is worth the smaller difference in performance, It's also true that some materials such as cast iron will always be inexpensive, and this can be a good solution if you're willing to take the tradeoffs in performance that come along with them. Cast iron, for example, is great but never as nonstick or even-heating as its proponents claim. But one of the things that's nice is that you can often get specialty pans made of these materials quite inexpensively. I have a cast iron ebelskiver pan that was quite cheap, and I also have any number of inexpensive specialty pans (fish, omelette, crepe, etc.) made of thick carbon steel.

[gfweb]

I think Cutco pretty much wins the blue ribbon for overpriced knives. I've had very good luck with my el-cheapo Victorinox, which probably would sell for more money had they not branded it the same as a keychain gadget.

Cutco! Those guys have the most evil marketing plan on Earth. It goes like this. Recruit HS grads on the way to college with the prospect of a scholarship. They tend to be the less financially-advantaged kids. Have them visit every friend of their parents and try to score a sale or two. They never sell much, but Cutco makes a bundle on their wildly overpriced stuff. The only benefit to the kids is they learn to stay away from this kind of scam in the future without having lost too much money.

[msiferllc]

That's the fine line with kitchen items. It's always a battle of "get what you pay for" against "overpriced item". I have a $20 dollar coffee maker that works better than or old $200 coffee maker. Conversely, we have a $10 waffle maker that's junk. Should have splurged on the $50 dollar unit.

[Special K]

I can't overstate my preference for scavenging the second hand market, from thrift stores to garage and estate sales. Much of the time the quality of the old stuff is better than new products; this is certainly true of cast iron. The grain, or texture of the iron, is vastly superior in dutch ovens and pans from the early to mid-1900s, and they can be resurrected and will last forever.

I agree! Since I decided to buy everything I could at second-hand stores several years ago I have saved a bunch of money, and I now find it almost impossible to buy anything at retail. I had to shell out real money for a silpat the other day (somebody used the one I had as a cutting board - again) and it nearly kilt me!

I find wonderfully seasoned cast iron pans, as well as all the pricy brand name stuff, good as new. I have a very small kitchen, so I only buy to upgrade; then the replaced item gets donated.

[andiesenji]

I agree! Since I decided to buy everything I could at second-hand stores several years ago I have saved a bunch of money, and I now find it almost impossible to buy anything at retail. I had to shell out real money for a silpat the other day (somebody used the one I had as a cutting board - again) and it nearly kilt me!

For your information, Amazon has this Silicone baking mat for a very reasonable price.

I reviewed it two months ago and have bought 3 additional since then.

It's essentially the same price as the Silpat one that is half the size.

[Shalmanese]

That's the fine line with kitchen items. It's always a battle of "get what you pay for" against "overpriced item". I have a $20 dollar coffee maker that works better than or old $200 coffee maker. Conversely, we have a $10 waffle maker that's junk. Should have splurged on the $50 dollar unit.

The Cooks Illustrated equipment reviews really help out with this.

[Shel_B]

That's the fine line with kitchen items. It's always a battle of "get what you pay for" against "overpriced item". I have a $20 dollar coffee maker that works better than or old $200 coffee maker. Conversely, we have a $10 waffle maker that's junk. Should have splurged on the $50 dollar unit.

The Cooks Illustrated equipment reviews really help out with this.

Are you suggesting that the CI reviews are sxomehow favoring the All Clad products?

If you trust CI, and many people seem to, then there might be something to their favorable reviews. Maybe All Clad pans really are better.

FWIW, I bought three All Clad pans in 1979, and they are still going strong. Every other pan that I bought between then and 1990 or so, has found the trash heap. I now have a couple of smaller Calphalon pans, and they seem to be doing well.

[tikidoc]

I look at the Cooks Illustrated reviews but take them with a grain of salt and do research elsewhere as well, especially when it comes to kitchen machinery (rather than pans or gadgets). They make some pretty poor recommendations at times. They have highly recommended the Kitchen Aid mixers for bread baking, and if you either have experience with one of these mixers (post-Hobart years) or if you read any BBs for bakers, you will see they are not a good mixer for bread. Even doughs with fairly high levels of hydration can easily kill a KA. Ask me how I know this (2 mixers including a "Pro" 600 in 5 years, the Pro based on CI's recommendation). They panned the Electrolux DLX without giving it much of a chance - there is a steep learning curve to the mixer but once you get used to it, it is a great mixer, and will likely outlast a dozen KA mixers.