High-end Cookware - What you get for the money

[gfweb]

6 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Last night I tested my new Demeyere searing pan on the Paragon.  I was disappointed the Paragon could heat the pan to only 250C, no matter how long I preheated.  My first thought was the Paragon is underpowered.

 

Now I'm wondering about the pan.  On some frying pans Demeyere uses an alloy that intentionally becomes non-ferric as the pan is heated.  This limits the maximum pan temperature on induction to 250C.  Methinks this is much of a coincidence.

 

Anyone have any thoughts?  I also took readings at the pan edge that were only about 20 degrees cooler than the center.  This speaks well of Demeyere considering I was using an inexpensive induction unit with an undoubtedly small coil.

 

Maybe try a non fancy ferric pan and see how it does

[JoNorvelleWalker]

29 minutes ago, gfweb said:

Maybe try a non fancy ferric pan and see how it does

 

I did the experiment.  The pan quickly heated to above 250C.  Then there were some clicking sounds and the temperature dropped to about 220C.  This was somewhat disconcerting.  I don't recall such clicking sounds when testing the Demeyere last night.  I'm glad I have two spare Paragons in the living room.

 

[btbyrd]

The Paragon spec sheet lists the max temp for the cooktop at 500F/260C. Portable induction units typically top out around this range to avoid overheating. For portable/outdoor searing, I highly recommend the Iwatani 35FW butane burner.

Edited March 8, 2021 by btbyrd (log)

[TicTac]

Noticed this thread and as I am on the look-out for a few new pots, I was curious to your thoughts...

 

I have a number of All Clad copper core pans, but want to upgrade my pot selection.  Stick with AC or perhaps Sitram or Fissler? (or another high quality brand?)

 

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

52 minutes ago, TicTac said:

Noticed this thread and as I am on the look-out for a few new pots, I was curious to your thoughts...

 

I have a number of All Clad copper core pans, but want to upgrade my pot selection.  Stick with AC or perhaps Sitram or Fissler? (or another high quality brand?)

 

 

 

What type of pot are you looking for?  For what use?

 

I assume you have read

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/25717-understanding-stovetop-cookware/?tab=comments#comment-349424

 

My approach is to figure out a potential application for a pan that is not well met by a pan I have.  Then search for a pan that meets the qualifications.  Then there are considerations about heat source, rivets or welds (and yes, there is a thread on that), all sorts of things.

 

For example:  I bought the Demeyere searing pan because I wanted a pan for smash burgers (seriously).  I only have two frying pans that are not non-stick, and they are copper Falk.  Most Falk does not work on induction and my glass top stove instructions say not to use copper cookware on high heat.  Also the sides of the Falk are too high to work a spatula.  The Demeyere searing pan ticked all the boxes, plus it was on sale.  The Falk is great for actually frying something.

 

As to brands, I have been most pleased by Falk and Fissler.  Mixed feelings about Demeyere and Sitram.  My non-stick is Scanpan and Berndes -- both high quality.  Less thrilled with AC and Cuisinart.  The only time I have had welds fail was Cuisinart.  In Cuisinart's defense they are not at the same price point as some of these other brands.  I've never had good results from carbon steel or cast iron (except for Le Creuset).

 

Speaking of price, Fissler is a relative bargain.

 

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

5 hours ago, btbyrd said:

The Paragon spec sheet lists the max temp for the cooktop at 500F/260C. Portable induction units typically top out around this range to avoid overheating. For portable/outdoor searing, I highly recommend the Iwatani 35FW butane burner.

 

Still it's interesting the Demeyere cruised along at constant 250C, while the $30 pan caused the Paragon to make scary noises and shut the temperature down to 220C.

 

[weinoo]

On 3/8/2021 at 7:10 PM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I have been most pleased by Falk

 

Love Falk stuff (as well as Mauviel via DeHellerin), using these 2 as much as any saucepans in the batterie...

 

 

Like daily. Like today for oatmeal. The smaller of these is 1.4 qts., and is pretty much always on sale - as it's the gateway drug. I have their 3 quart rondeau, and it's another perfect pan say, for chicken scarpariello. Or any of those braises where you don't need a 4-qt. or larger Dutch oven. Gorgeous, too, if I do say so myself.

 

All-Clad has been discussed here for a long time. Both @gfweb and I agree (I think) that if you own or can acquire any/some of the original, first generation MC stuff, it's unbeatable. That's a 2 quart behind Falk cousins. 

 

Staub - I wouldn't be without my 4 quart (#24) cocotte. This was on sale for $99, which also happens regularly as it's their gateway drug, in my opinion.

 

I have and use various carbon steel, cast iron, stainless steel, etc. etc. frying pans and sauté pans for, well, sauté and stovetop shit. Undersearing scallops is my specialty. I think these pans (and that includes their nonstick brethren) are much more personal, in that what type of range/stove/oven they're gonna be used on may be more important than say, for a cocotte.  But even more importantly, I think how they feel in the hand is of utmost importance. If the handle isn't comfortable to hold, it's not going to be a fun item to cook with. They're like knives in that regard, and I certainly get more physical with them than with a big Dutch oven.

 

All that being said, I am mildly surprised at a pan or two I was able to buy because a friend worked at the parent company, which annually ran giant sales of this stuff for friends and family - Calphalon. One of their hard-anodized aluminum in a 3 qt. saucepan and a stainless 8 qt. stockpot with strainer lid are 2 acquired this way. They're nice cookware at the price.

Edited March 10, 2021 by weinoo
Because plural of knife isn't knifes. (log)

[gfweb]

@weinoo
is correct about my AllClad feelings. The newer ones aren't as good as Calphalon and a shitload more expensive.

 

But the original master chef made in Canonsburg PA are great.  Im buying them on ebay

[weinoo]

2 hours ago, gfweb said:

@weinoo
is correct about my AllClad feelings. The newer ones aren't as good as Calphalon and a shitload more expensive.

 

But the original master chef made in Canonsburg PA are great.  Im buying them on ebay

Those - the OG MC were very much used in restaurants back in their day. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

5 hours ago, weinoo said:

 

Love Falk stuff (as well as Mauviel via DeHellerin), using these 2 as much as any saucepans in the batterie...

 

 

Like daily. Like today for oatmeal. The smaller of these is 1.4 qts., and is pretty much always on sale - as it's the gateway drug. I have their 3 quart rondeau, and it's another perfect pan say, for chicken scarpariello. Or any of those braises where you don't need a 4-qt. or larger Dutch oven. Gorgeous, too, if I do say so myself.

 

All-Clad has been discussed here for a long time. Both @gfweb and I agree (I think) that if you own or can acquire any/some of the original, first generation MC stuff, it's unbeatable. That's a 2 quart behind Falk cousins. 

 

Staub - I wouldn't be without my 4 quart (#24) cocotte. This was on sale for $99, which also happens regularly as it's their gateway drug, in my opinion.

 

I have and use various carbon steel, cast iron, stainless steel, etc. etc. frying pans and sauté pans for, well, sauté and stovetop shit. Undersearing scallops is my specialty. I think these pans (and that includes their nonstick brethren) are much more personal, in that what type of range/stove/oven they're gonna be used on may be more important than say, for a cocotte.  But even more importantly, I think how they feel in the hand is of utmost importance. If the handle isn't comfortable to hold, it's not going to be a fun item to cook with. They're like knifes in that regard, and I certainly get more physical with them than with a big Dutch oven.

 

All that being said, I am mildly surprised at a pan or two I was able to buy because a friend worked at the parent company, which annually ran giant sales of this stuff for friends and family - Calphalon. One of their hard-anodized aluminum in a 3 qt. saucepan and a stainless 8 qt. stockpot with strainer lid are 2 acquired this way. They're nice cookware at the price.

 

I'm running out of Falk pieces to collect but that rondeau sure looks pretty.  If I'm not mistaken it is the same vessel as their saute pan with different handles.  However I note the rondeau/saute pan is rather shallow.  Do you really find it deep enough for braising?  What Falk (or other) pot or pan would you recommend for risotto?  For most single person purposes my battery of Le Creuset are overkill.

 

Last couple braises I've done in my newish 18cm disc bottom Demeyere.  Also used successfully for my freshly flocked Ankarsrum oats this morning afternoon.

 

 

[weinoo]

8 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I'm running out of Falk pieces to collect but that rondeau sure looks pretty.  If I'm not mistaken it is the same vessel as their saute pan with different handles.  However I note the rondeau/saute pan is rather shallow.  Do you really find it deep enough for braising?  What Falk (or other) pot or pan would you recommend for risotto?  For most single person purposes my battery of Le Creuset are overkill.

 

Last couple braises I've done in my newish 18cm disc bottom Demeyere.  Also used successfully for my freshly flocked Ankarsrum oats this morning afternoon.

 

I do find it deep enough (almost 3") for braising - a whole chicken for scarpariello, for instance. The chicken cut into pieces, that is. When I want to braise a whole 3 or 4 lb. chicken, it's time for the 4 qt. Dutch oven.

 

And indeed - it appears to be their sauté with different handles.

 

For risotto, I really like the saucier shape - it's so nice to have that curved (?) bottom with nowhere for the rice to get stuck. Don't tell anyone, but I'll also use that Calphalon hard-anodized aluminum for risotto - it's nonstick properties make the risotto practically foolproof, but it's a much lighter pan, so more care has to be taken when stirring.

 

P.S. @JoNorvelleWalker - that Rondeau might even fit in your APO?

Edited March 10, 2021 by weinoo (log)

[Porthos]

3 hours ago, weinoo said:

For risotto, I really like the saucier shape - it's so nice to have that curved (?) bottom with nowhere for the rice to get stuck.

Our best friends were visiting a few years ago. Mike is an incredible cook, and married into an Italian family who know how how to cook. I made risotto in my 3 qt Vollrath saucier. He decided he needed to add a saucier to his batterie. So far he's still trying to decide which one he wants. He does a LOT of research. And I don't make recommendations.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I was amazed/appalled yesterday to see All-Clad selling sets of two non-stick pans for $49.99.    A new direction?

[EMichels]

1 hour ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

I was amazed/appalled yesterday to see All-Clad selling sets of two non-stick pans for $49.99.    A new direction?

 

All-Clad have released multiple lines of cheap stuff in past couple of years. The strategy really puzzles me. In most cases it is a playbook move to start high quality/low volume and use that brand value and recognition to expand to high volume/low quality to maximize profit. However, All Clad have had such a lock on the high-end market for so long that it seems folly to burn so much of that brand equity in order to move a few more $30 non-stick anodized aluminum skillets. I suspect that there is a large portion of the current All-Clad consumer base that buys for the name. It does not take long for that market to move on when All-Clad becomes just as known for cheap skillets at HomeGoods as for the original high-quality fully clad cookware. I suspect that this is a reaction to the rapid disappearance of their traditional retail channels (Macy's, Sur la Table, etc.) and growth of the discount channel (TJ Maxx/Marshalls/HomeGoods) but this direction strikes me as more likely to kill the brand than to offer a way through the retail transition.

Edited March 10, 2021 by EMichels (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

5 hours ago, weinoo said:

 

I do find it deep enough (almost 3") for braising - a whole chicken for scarpariello, for instance. The chicken cut into pieces, that is. When I want to braise a whole 3 or 4 lb. chicken, it's time for the 4 qt. Dutch oven.

 

And indeed - it appears to be their sauté with different handles.

 

For risotto, I really like the saucier shape - it's so nice to have that curved (?) bottom with nowhere for the rice to get stuck. Don't tell anyone, but I'll also use that Calphalon hard-anodized aluminum for risotto - it's nonstick properties make the risotto practically foolproof, but it's a much lighter pan, so more care has to be taken when stirring.

 

P.S. @JoNorvelleWalker - that Rondeau might even fit in your APO?

 

The slightly shallower Falk 24 cm gratin pan fits fine.

 

[gfweb]

5 hours ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

I was amazed/appalled yesterday to see All-Clad selling sets of two non-stick pans for $49.99.    A new direction?

 Trying to get into Target perhaps

[JoNorvelleWalker]

@weinoo I note what the US Falk site calls a stir fry pan is a risotto pan in Europe.

 

[weinoo]

4 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

@weinoo I note what the US Falk site calls a stir fry pan is a risotto pan in Europe.

 

 

This one?  Wow, it's so rounded...

 

 

do you own any of the Copper Coeur Line?

 

Quote

The Copper Coeur Line is a three layer pan: it has the same 0.2mm stainless steel lining of the other pans fused with a 1.9mm copper core. The difference is the exterior, Copper Coeur has a 0.4mm ferritic stainless steel exterior that makes it compatible with induction ranges. The handles are the same stainelss steel as the Signature Line.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, weinoo said:

 

This one?  Wow, it's so rounded...

 

 

do you own any of the Copper Coeur Line?

 

 

 

In Copper Coeur I have the 24 cm Gratin Pan and 24 cm Saucier.  I thought I had a third piece but wandering around I don't see any others.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I misspoke.  My Copper Coeur gratin pan is 28 cm, not 24 cm.

 

[Nauticus]

Over the years, I've owned cookware from well known companies (All Clad) and some pretty low quality stuff.

 

Now, I use three probably lesser known brands almost exclusively, that aren't over the top expensive, but they seem high quality, and I really enjoy the design.

 

Abbio

Sardel

Soy

 

I'd recommend all three, though Abbio and Sardel are probably the ones I use most commonly. Soy makes a really great saucepan.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I can report I'm liking my Demeyere disc bottom more and more.  It is now my go to pot for flocked oats.

 

[TicTac]

16 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I can report I'm liking my Demeyere disc bottom more and more.  It is now my go to pot for flocked oats.

 

Is that in the Atlantis series?  Expensive pots!

 

I am looking for a 4qt and 2qt pot - the Fissler line really appeals though I have yet been able to determine the difference between their Original-Profi and Pure-Profi collections.

 

Alternatively, I am talking to a guy online who has a 8 piece All Clad MC2 collection and is asking $650 for them - don't need all the pieces in that set...but its a decent price...

[JoNorvelleWalker]

6 hours ago, TicTac said:

Is that in the Atlantis series?  Expensive pots!

 

I am looking for a 4qt and 2qt pot - the Fissler line really appeals though I have yet been able to determine the difference between their Original-Profi and Pure-Profi collections.

 

Alternatively, I am talking to a guy online who has a 8 piece All Clad MC2 collection and is asking $650 for them - don't need all the pieces in that set...but its a decent price...

 

Yes, Atlantis.  I got the lower cost 18 cm one.

 

[TicTac]

Ended up pulling the trigger on the All Clad MasterChef set - it's the old school set and in perfect condition, looking forward to putting them to work!