High-end Cookware - What you get for the money

[boilsover]

On 5/9/2018 at 8:41 AM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

The asparagus pot is too small for the back burner on my stove.  The Fissler is not at all too big but it is heavy.  I don't think I ever said too heavy.

 

OK, good luck.

[Porthos]

My DW and I will be celebrating a significant anniversary next month. She suggested that giving me a new knife or a nice pan would bring her pleasure. I've looked at knives and nothing zinged my strings. So I have started looking at pans.

 

Pan one:

 

Demeyere Silver7 Covered Sauté Pan 5 qt  https://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO-2756047/Demeyere+Silver7+Covered+Saute+Pan?cat=TCA-257761_Saute+Pans

 

Pan 2:

 

All-Clad Copper Core Saucepan 4 qt   https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/all-clad-copper-core-saucepan/?pkey=call-clad-copper-core&isx=0.0.1254

 

 

I hope to add a couple of additional choices but for now this is what I have.

 

Thoughts on either of these pans?

 

ETA things in my kitchen MUST be dishwasher safe. This is an absolute. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Porthos (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

4 hours ago, Porthos said:

My DW and I will be celebrating a significant anniversary next month. She suggested that giving me a new knife or a nice pan would bring her pleasure. I've looked at knives and nothing zinged my strings. So I have started looking at pans.

 

Pan one:

 

Demeyere Silver7 Covered Sauté Pan 5 qt  https://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO-2756047/Demeyere+Silver7+Covered+Saute+Pan?cat=TCA-257761_Saute+Pans

 

Pan 2:

 

All-Clad Copper Core Saucepan 4 qt   https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/all-clad-copper-core-saucepan/?pkey=call-clad-copper-core&isx=0.0.1254

 

 

I hope to add a couple of additional choices but for now this is what I have.

 

Thoughts on either of these pans?

 

ETA things in my kitchen MUST be dishwasher safe. This is an absolute. 

 

 

I would not put that All-Clad in the dishwasher.

 

(And yes I see that WS says it is dishwasher safe.)

 

[Porthos]

@JoNorvelleWalker Not challenging you, would just like to know your reason(s) why not.

[boilsover]

On 5/15/2018 at 6:16 PM, Porthos said:

My DW and I will be celebrating a significant anniversary next month. She suggested that giving me a new knife or a nice pan would bring her pleasure. I've looked at knives and nothing zinged my strings. So I have started looking at pans.

 

Pan one:

 

Demeyere Silver7 Covered Sauté Pan 5 qt  https://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO-2756047/Demeyere+Silver7+Covered+Saute+Pan?cat=TCA-257761_Saute+Pans

 

Pan 2:

 

All-Clad Copper Core Saucepan 4 qt   https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/all-clad-copper-core-saucepan/?pkey=call-clad-copper-core&isx=0.0.1254

 

 

I hope to add a couple of additional choices but for now this is what I have.

 

Thoughts on either of these pans?

 

ETA things in my kitchen MUST be dishwasher safe. This is an absolute. 

 

IMO, the Demeyere wins by a mile.  You might also consider a Demeyere Proline 5* skillet.  The newest ones are completely sealed for dishwasher use.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

10 hours ago, Porthos said:

@JoNorvelleWalker Not challenging you, would just like to know your reason(s) why not.

 

Because of the exposed copper.

 

[Porthos]

1 hour ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Because of the exposed copper.

 

Thank you. It's off the list.  I've substituted the d5.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Porthos (log)

[weedy]

I don't think anyone ever goes wrong with the D5s

[boilsover]

On 5/17/2018 at 9:10 PM, weedy said:

I don't think anyone ever goes wrong with the D5s

 

They're not the best, and the handles gripe me, but they're OK.  The basic A-C Stainless triply is IMO the best of the A-C clad lines.

[weedy]

We disagree. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 11:55 AM, boilsover said:

OK, good luck.

 

I may have to enjoy humble pie.  And I may have to act my age.  The Fissler is a beautiful pot.  How could such a tiny vessel be so heavy?  Admittedly at the moment my back is out.

 

[boilsover]

On 5/23/2018 at 4:54 PM, weedy said:

We disagree. 

 

I agree we disagree. 

 

I and others have tested these A-C lines.  See, https://www.centurylife.org/what-is-the-difference-between-tri-ply-and-5-ply-and-7-ply-how-many-plies-do-i-need/ and https://www.centurylife.org/cookware-even-heating-rankings-butane-propane-natural-gas-etc/ The interleaving of more steel between conductive layers doesn't seem to actually accomplish much except increase the weight of the pan, and decrease the total thickness of aluminum.  Yet make d5 less responsive.  All-Clad seemed to acknowledge their Start-Stop-Start-Stop theory about this is wrong when they switched to touting d7 as "just like cast iron except up to 30% lighter." 

 

Given all the other good possible choices, d5 is far down my list.

[paulraphael]

I've never compared the actual performance of the two lines, but I really don't want to reward companies like all-clad for the 5-ply and 7-ply marketing nonsense. 

 

It's not too hard to imagine that the 5-ply pans could perform reasonably well. If the steel layers are thin enough, these pans would act a bit more like disk-bottom pans with thicker aluminum. Which is to say they'd be better at some things, worse at others.

 

What I like about the AC triply is that they're thin and fast, so I'm not really looking for changes here. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by paulraphael (log)

[boilsover]

14 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I may have to enjoy humble pie.  And I may have to act my age.  The Fissler is a beautiful pot.  How could such a tiny vessel be so heavy?  Admittedly at the moment my back is out.

 

 

Don't apologize, even if "heavy" is a relative term.  Fisslers tend to have slightly thicker walls than most disk-based pans, and they are mondo thick where it counts--the bottoms.  I think your pot has a 6mm core of aluminum, bonded to the 1.2mm pan body, plus whatever "Cook-Star" sheet they put on the bottom for induction.  It's probably near 8mm total bottom thickness.  The good news for you may be that the larger sizes have even thicker cores.

[Porthos]

My DW chose other things for my anniversary gifts. However, I was given 2 gift cards as a thank you for my years in the Southern ren faire kitchen with the instruction to buy something I wouldn't normally buy for myself. Tomorrow morning I will be picking up a Demeyere 3 quart Silver 7 sautee pan. Definitely not something I would buy for myself.

[boilsover]

8 hours ago, Porthos said:

Tomorrow morning I will be picking up a Demeyere 3 quart Silver 7 sautee pan.

 

Conratulations.  The combination of features (2mm copper core, TriplInduc, Silvinox) make or a great pan.  Please post a review!

[Porthos]

@boilsover

First use observations. I made a simple weeknight meal, coined sausage in caramelized onion and half & Half over penne ragate pasta.

 

There will be a learning curve for regulating the heat. I almost burned the onions, However, reducing the half and half was very easy to keep control of.

 

Two things did impress me.  First, the 2-layer lid really does stay cool. Being able to grab the lid handle without a pot holder was nice. Second, it cleaned up very easily, needing a little bar keepers friend because of the long caramelization time and me getting used to regulating the heat.

 

eta Besides the lid handle being cool, the design of the pan handle keeps it much cooler than most pan handles.

 

I think I'm going to enjoy this pan.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Porthos (log)

[boilsover]

12 hours ago, Porthos said:

Second, it cleaned up very easily, needing a little bar keepers friend because of the long caramelization time and me getting used to regulating the heat.

 

Good report.  FYI, the Silvinox treatment is quite durable, and does generally clean up easily.  Strangely, however, it hangs onto fully polymerized fats more tenaciously than do most of my other pans.  Nothing BKF or Carbon-Off can't fix, though.

 

If you like this pan, may I suggest you also consider the Demeyere double plancha, also with Silvinox?  It was >$500 ( and practically unavailable in USA) forever, and then Zwilling offered it at <$100.  It puts the fun back in griddling on a home hob, and is probably the most even heat of anything else on the market.

[tikidoc]

Has anyone tried the new Misen cookware? I got a set of their knives, which are very nice quality at a very reasonable price. That recently came out with cookware.

[boilsover]

I have not tried it, but we can deduce that there isn't a lot of aluminum in it.  If it is indeed 3mm total thickness, the steel layers comprise ± 1.2mm of that.  The remaining ± 1.8mm would be two flanking layers of aluminum, each ≤ 1mm.

 

Compare with the good disk-based designs, which contains 6-8mm aluminum cores.

[Porthos]

My comments below are not meant to bash other's opinions, just express my viewpoint.

 

After having the Demeyere pan for over a year and a half I've come to the conclusion that for the way I cook it wasn't a good investment. I rarely use it. It's significantly heavier than my go-to pans and with my health issues that figures into to it. It does clean up with relative ease and I like that. They recommend against putting it in the dishwasher because eventually it won't be as pretty.  It goes in anyway. There are 2 knives in my kitchen that don't go into the dishwasher. Everything else does.

 

I was expecting a noticeable difference in evenness of heat distribution and I didn't see that. That was the main "selling point" to me.

 

I'm not saying that it's a bad pan. It just isn't worth the expense to me. I'm happy for those who like theirs.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

My one Demeyere was a disappointment.  Not that it is a horrible pan by any means.  Now that a have a Paragon (OK, three Paragons) I am thankful the Demeyere works with induction.  But the Demeyere is seldom the pan I grab for anything except a can of soup.

 

By coincidence I've been wanting an induction capable larger sauce pan that would go in the dishwasher.  Last night I ordered a small Fissler pressure cooker with a separate lid that should fill the bill.  So far Fissler is the brand of cookware that's worked best for me.  Except for Falk, of course.

 

[Robenco15]

Interesting. I’m using a GE induction range and absolutely love all of my Demeyere stuff. The 2.3qt saucepan is perfect and I made a wonderful bechamel with it tonight. The 9.4” and 12.6” Proline fry pans are workhorses more than capable of anything I throw at it. The 4.2qt (actually 5qt) saute pan may be my most favorite pan that I own and I’ve only had it for a few months (stupid even heating all they way to the edge, and that’s with induction which is not an even heating source), and the 21”x13” Teppanyaki is just incredible. Really awesome piece of steel. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

The last couple nights I've been using my Demeyere on the Paragon to prepare my Rancho Gordo Moro beans.  In my hands all the Rancho Gordo bean varieties from Mexico I've tried require inordinate amounts of cooking time.  But with the Paragon and a good induction pan one can just set the temperature and walk away.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Last night I tested my new Demeyere searing pan on the Paragon.  I was disappointed the Paragon could heat the pan to only 250C, no matter how long I preheated.  My first thought was the Paragon is underpowered.

 

Now I'm wondering about the pan.  On some frying pans Demeyere uses an alloy that intentionally becomes non-ferric as the pan is heated.  This limits the maximum pan temperature on induction to 250C.  Methinks this is much of a coincidence.

 

Anyone have any thoughts?  I also took readings at the pan edge that were only about 20 degrees cooler than the center.  This speaks well of Demeyere considering I was using an inexpensive induction unit with an undoubtedly small coil.