Cooking with Perfumes

[Shalmanese]

I was wondering if anyone's experimented with or heard about people using Perfumes and Fragrances as a part of cooking? I think it's an intriguing idea that could have promise.

I'm idly considering cooking up some Crepe Suzette and adding a whiff of flamed Hermes D'orange Vert tableside right before serving.

[insomniac]

I was wondering if anyone's experimented with or heard about people using Perfumes and Fragrances as a part of cooking? I think it's an intriguing idea that could have promise.

I'm idly considering cooking up some Crepe Suzette and adding a whiff of flamed Hermes D'orange Vert tableside right before serving.

←

el Celler de Can Roca uses a cooking with perfume concept...we had a dessert that was based on the perfume 'Poison'...you could try googling their site for more info....

[rooftop1000]

Sorry perfume doesnt even have a place on my server let alone my food, but I might be a little militant about perfume

Tracey

[CDRFloppingham]

Didn't we learn in TC Season 3 that scented candles (somewhat analogous to perfume) is taboo in the dining room?

[JAZ]

I'm going to vote "no" as well. To me, perfume is simply distracting and unwanted during a meal. I actually stopped wearing perfume when I started cooking seriously -- not that I wore a lot, but I didn't like the interference.

[djyee100]

I've never tried a commercial perfume or fragrance along with a food, but I'm not totally opposed to it. My only concern would be that the fragrance be food-safe.

After all, people drink wines that are valued for their scents of lavender, tobacco, or (what's the French for it) "forest floor." The aroma of those wines are perceived to enhance the food. And what about jasmine tea?

A fragrance based on scents that are normally compatible with foods might work: for example, a rose perfume (similar to rose water); a coconut-y scent; a minty green herbal scent; a lemony scent. Just some ideas.

I once ate coconut cakes that were smoked with a scented candle. The scent was very mild; I think it was floral. Only a whiff of scent when you ate it, nothing very strong at all--strong perfumes are what put people off. Kasma Loha-Unchit prepared the cakes for one of her cooking classes, and some information about using a scented candle may be in one of her cookbooks.

ETCorrect: Oops, sorry if you read my original post about Thai Black Rice Pudding. Scratch that! After a search, I unearthed my notes from the class. Kasma made small coconut cakes that were scented with an incense candle (herbs & flowers scent). The cake batter was smoked with the candle. The bowl of cake batter was placed in an airtight pot or jar. Kasma lit an incense candle until it was good and smoking, blew it out, then dropped the still smoky candle into the pot alongside the batter, and covered the pot up tightly. She smoked the batter for 2 or 3 hrs; overnight is OK too. To make the batter even more smoky, you can relight the candle and repeat the process.

Some details for this recipe on Kasma's website (similar to the coconut cakes that we made; ours were baked). The last 2 paragraphs: http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/recipes/grillcoc.html

If you try any experiments along this line, pls let us know!

Edited July 12, 2008 by djyee100 (log)

[Shalmanese]

Perfumes when they are put on inconsiderately or without regard with the food is obviously going to detract from the experience but I think, when well thought out and in careful synergy with the dish, I don't see why it wouldn't be at least interesting to experiment with. Lots of modern molecular gastronomists like Heston Blumenthal and Grant Achatz are playing around with using aromas as an integral part of a dish. I see perfumes as a logical extension of that.

I don't think food safety is much of a concern seeing as these are products designed to be applied near the face. I'm willing to bet the dose from an intense makeout session would be far greater than what you would potentially get in a dish.

Going for congruent flavors seems like an obvious first step but I think there's room to push it further as well. A nice, leathery smoky scent dusted on a plate right before a steak goes down? A chicken dish built around Chanel No 5 and the images it evokes? A rich chocolate dessert with undertones of earth and sandalwood? These all seem like intriguing possibilities.

[Tri2Cook]

I think it's an interesting idea and look forward to seeing what you come up with. I don't know if it's something I would explore, I usually work hard to downplay the perfuminess when I use flowers for flavoring things. I made rose petal ice cream and lilac ice cream and both were accused of "bleh, it tastes like perfume" so I now make serious effort to accent the floral while bringing out as little of the perfume vibe as possible. Still, it will be very cool to see where you go with it. I was competely blown away by Rob's (gfron1) experiment a while back where he fed people cheesecake in a room aromatized with chocolate and most thought they were eating chocolate cheesecake. Go for it and keep us updated on what you come up with. Maybe you'll show me good reason to embrace the perfuminess... that would be awesome. I love learning new tricks.

Edited July 12, 2008 by Tri2Cook (log)

[Abra]

I have to say that at first blush it sounds icky. But then, I've made those little incense-perfumed cookies, and they were delicious. I also love rose and lavender as flavorings, and here in France, there's a lot of violet-flavored stuff that I find irresistible. I think the key is that it be a natural-smelling scent of something from the garden, as opposed to that musky patchouli heavier end of the spectrum.

[mtigges]

IMO perfume for its intended purpose is vile. I can't imagine fouling up decent food with synthetic aroma. People who wear perfume vary from slightly annoying to completely obnoxious. There is never any benefit to wearing it.

I realize my vehement reaction to perfume is only my opinion and it is not shared by most people, but really, why put synthetic aroma on your body? Why? Do you honestly think it smells good? So, by extension on food? You must be joking.

[Alcuin]

Perfume kind of seems like the easy way out. Grant Achatz coming up with a dish that combines scallop and a tiny orange slice in a bowl that sits in a bigger bowl which is filled with chamomile upon which water is poured to create a subtle "vapor" that works with the scallop/orange is brilliant. Spraying perfume on something strikes me as a cheap imitation of that. Why not work with bringing out natural aromas? I still think there's a lot of untrodden territory there.

This might be me reacting against the whole idea of perfume though. I always find it to be overpowering and artificial so these are the associations I have with it. It just strikes me as somewhat off in a bad way.

[Tri2Cook]

But what if it weren't overpowering? What if he found a way to use it that was background and subtle? Kinda like the woman who dabs a bit behind her ear compared to the woman who showers herself and her clothes in it? I'm not saying it's a good or bad idea but it is an interesting idea. Maybe he'll come up with the dish that reminds people of the one mom/grandmother/whoever used to make right down to the perfume she always wore. I don't know, someone probably thought sticking their brontosaurus mignon in the fire was a silly idea at some point.

[gfron1]

You're talking perfumes which I typically find offensive (perfumes, not you talking about them ), but fragrances (ala Alinea) and "edible perfumes" are a different story. The alcohol in perfumes is what is offensive to my nose. HERE is a brief discussion of edible perfumes in the Pastry & Baking forum.

[Alcuin]

But what if it weren't overpowering? What if he found a way to use it that was background and subtle? Kinda like the woman who dabs a bit behind her ear compared to the woman who showers herself and her clothes in it? I'm not saying it's a good or bad idea but it is an interesting idea. Maybe he'll come up with the dish that reminds people of the one mom/grandmother/whoever used to make right down to the perfume she always wore. I don't know, someone probably thought sticking their brontosaurus mignon in the fire was a silly idea at some point.

←

I'm not saying the idea's not worth trying. I guess I just don't have good associations with perfume. It's not the amount of perfume that I find overpowering, it's the artificiality of it. It seems like it would have an off-taste.

Then again, it might be like using orange flower water or something like that. It's like perfume, but if used properly it can be a good background note. Again, though, it's not something I would want to feature and can easily be overpowering. Orange flower water is very similar to perfume and using perfume like properties in food has been done before. Looking at the traditional use of OFW, you can see it must be handled with care as there are many warnings about overuse. I've overused it in a drink before and 1 or 2 drops too many can ruin the whole thing.

In any case, what's the point of even talking about whether this would be a good idea or not. Shalamanese obviously thinks it will be, so why not just try it and report back? Debating this is not going to accomplish anything. If you grant that OFW is similar to perfume, there are some guidelines looking at the tradition of using it that might give you some insight into how to use it and how not to use it.

[Tri2Cook]

It's not the amount of perfume that I find overpowering, it's the artificiality of it. It seems like it would have an off-taste.

←

Good point. I guess I missed something in the reading, I didn't pick up on the perfume actually being an ingredient. I thought he was going for aroma. I can't imagine perfume tasting particularly good either.

I'm not debating whether or not it's a good idea, that can only be answered by trying it. I'm just kinda thinking out loud (so to speak) about whether or not I can picture it being a good thing. I'm having a tough time putting it together in my head so I want to be as encouraging as I can so I get to read about the results of his effort.

[Alcuin]

It's not the amount of perfume that I find overpowering, it's the artificiality of it. It seems like it would have an off-taste.

←

Good point. I guess I missed something in the reading, I didn't pick up on the perfume actually being an ingredient. I thought he was going for aroma. I can't imagine perfume tasting particularly good either.

I'm not debating whether or not it's a good idea, that can only be answered by trying it. I'm just kinda thinking out loud (so to speak) about whether or not I can picture it being a good thing. I'm having a tough time putting it together in my head so I want to be as encouraging as I can so I get to read about the results of his effort.

←

I agree--I hope he tries it however he imagines doing it. I'm interested to see what happens.

[judiu]

JMHO; my favorite perfume smell a lot like Angoustura (sp?) Bitters taste, so there is a scent-taste interplay going on here. (/my.02)

[Alcuin]

JMHO; my favorite perfume smell a lot like Angoustura (sp?) Bitters taste, so there is a scent-taste interplay going on here. (/my.02)

←

My first thought with this topic was actually cocktails. There is a lot of olfactory manipulation that goes on with garnishes like spraying citrus oil on a drink with a twist as much for smell as for taste or putting a sprig of mint near the imbiber's nose when s/he sips from a straw for the smell.

Bitters, like perfumes I guess, can also be quite unpalatable alone but transform a drink. Maybe this is another way to think about using strong sense elements.

[djyee100]

Shalmanese, I am unclear whether you want to add perfume directly to the food and eat it, or whether you want to have it surround the food to enhance it (like the bowl of chamomile water mentioned in another post). Pls check food-safety issues if you plan to ingest it. Commercial perfumes are not sterile. I once researched the possibility of adding rose geranium water (hydrosol) to a tagine. My research indicated that I would have to pasteurize the hydrosol before adding it to food.

[Alchemist]

JMHO; my favorite perfume smell a lot like Angoustura (sp?) Bitters taste, so there is a scent-taste interplay going on here. (/my.02)

←

My first thought with this topic was actually cocktails. There is a lot of olfactory manipulation that goes on with garnishes like spraying citrus oil on a drink with a twist as much for smell as for taste or putting a sprig of mint near the imbiber's nose when s/he sips from a straw for the smell.

Bitters, like perfumes I guess, can also be quite unpalatable alone but transform a drink. Maybe this is another way to think about using strong sense elements.

←

I think this is a very interesting idea. One way to add perfume to the eating experiance without having to ingest it would be to perfume the fork or spoon between the tines and the handle where neither the mouth or hands touch. This would be like Charles Bakers trick of dashing the straw with bitters out of reach from the lips but below the nose, so the scent would be picked up. Then you get that cool effect of having one flavor on your tongue and another in your inquisitive probiscus. It could be like eating a cookie while sitting on your grandma's lap.

Toby

[Shalmanese]

For those of you who complain about the artificial, synthetic nature of perfume, I'm completely missing where that's coming from. Sure, cheap perfume is going to smell one dimensional and artificial, just like cheap food is. But high end perfume is made by artisan perfumer from a combination of natural and synthetic scents, depending on the desired effect.

I'm perfectly willing to be a guinea pig in this but I'm surprised more people haven't experimented in this area.

gfron: Maybe flaming a perfume would get rid of the objectionable alcoholic note.

Alchemist: I like the idea of scenting the eating utensils.

djyee: I honestly can't see food safety being an issue. This is stuff that's designed to go on skin around the facial region of millions of people. If it weren't safe in at least the minute quantities I was planning on using then putting it in food would be the least of the worries of these companies.

I currently have a cold and a blocked nose but as soon as I get better, here's what I'm going to try:

4 negronis, each glass spritzed with 1 whiff of Terre d'Hermes before pouring in the drink. 2 will be poured straight away and 2 will be poured after 30 minutes to expose more of the mid-note. 1 of each will be flamed and the other unflamed. The traditional garnish for a negroni is a twist of orange so I wonder how the bitter citrus and earth notes of the fragrance play off that.

Edited July 13, 2008 by Shalmanese (log)

[nibor]

For those of you who complain about the artificial, synthetic nature of perfume, I'm completely missing where that's coming from. Sure, cheap perfume is going to smell one dimensional and artificial, just like cheap food is. But high end perfume is made by artisan perfumer from a combination of natural and synthetic scents, depending on the desired effect....snip....

←

This may be one of those things where you either get it or you don't. I find all perfumes icky and irritating, and wonder why the perfume industry even exists. The thought of eating the stuff is incomprehensible to me. But given that about 99% of soaps, lotions, beauty products, candles, etc., are purposefully perfumed, I know I am in the minority.

[maggiethecat]

I People who wear perfume vary from slightly annoying to completely obnoxious.  There is never any benefit to wearing it. 

I realize my vehement reaction to perfume is only my opinion and it is not shared by most people, but really, why put synthetic aroma on your body? Why? Do you honestly think it smells good?  So, by extension on food?  You must be joking.

←

De gusitbus! I think fine parfumerie can be an art akin to music, producing something lovely and ineffable. On any given day I'd be "slightly annoying to completely obnoxious." Lots of people mention that I smell good.

I received as a Mother's Day gift from my daughter "Perfumes: The Guide" by Luca Turin and Tania Sanchez, which is one the the five best non-fiction books I've read this year. Like many of you I adored the natural vapors at Alinea, but am bemused at using commercial fragrance in cooking. Maybe Luca Turin has part of the reason here:

"Note that the essential oil extracted [from botanicals] does not replicate the composition of the fragrant air above [my itals] the flower. In other words, rose oil does not smell like a rose. A technique called 'headspace' or 'living flower' attempts to remedy this discrepancy by analyzing the air above the flowers and replicating the mix with synthetics, with occasionally impressive results."

A steaming pillow at a temple of gastronomy produces the fragrant air, doesn't replicate it. Nonetheless, this topic is intriguing and I'm longing to hear about everyone's experiments. I'll be thinking hard.

Now, because it's really hot and too early for a gin and tonic with a twist of lime, I'm going to walk through a cloud of Guerlain's Cologne Imperiale. Yum. "Lime and lime flower notes."

[GlorifiedRice]

More about the Thai candles here

http://thaifoodandtravel.com/blog/incense-candles/

Where to buy

http://www.templeofthai.com/food/flour_sugar/incensecandle-1000000000.php

Also, you can buy pre-smoked coconut milk here

http://www.amazon.com/Chaokoh-Thai-Scented-Candle-Coconut/dp/B00DSXQJN8/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1384129352&sr=8-7&keywords=thai+candle