Chicken Stock

[huiray]

I've never understood how you can cook chicken long enough to make stock--like two or three hours--and still want to eat any of that chicken meat; it seems flavorless and worn out. So with fresh raw pieces like breasts or thighs, rescuing the meat before it overcooks seems like the best solution.

 

True.  I usually throw out most (but not all) of the chicken pieces after I have made the stock.  The exception  is when I've added in meaty pieces to "boost" the meaty flavor, usually added at a later stage of making the stock – and which I may or may not remove and save when the stock is done, or even before it is done.  If I do chicken stock using just chicken spare parts. feet, carcasses, stewing chickens, etc - most of the time the "chicken pieces" simply get tossed.

[Martin Fisher]

Hey IrishJersey,

How are you preparing the whole chicken?

Are you looking to make a white chicken stock or a dark chicken stock?

 

There are several ways I make chicken stock depending on what i have to work with and the desired outcome.

[dcarch]

I believe that bones have no flavor. It is what's on the bones and inside the bones which make good stock. ( Yes, I have done a test).

 

That's why I always crack bones in two when making stock.

 

I also have found that Turkey parts make great "chicken" stock, and chicken hearts, some liver, gizzards make flavorful stocks, and they are cheap.

 

dcarch

[Katie Meadow]

I'm not sure I agree with this.

Right, I don't think I expressed myself very clearly. My reason for making stock is solely to make soups, not to use up leftovers; I go out and buy what I need because byproduct chicken feet is simply not what happens in my life. I guess all I meant was that in the days before prepackaged chicken pieces you did whatever you could not to waste any foodstuffs. Clearly old vegetable peelings don't make the purest chicken stock, but if flavor and nutrition is in short supply you will use whatever you can.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Yes, I certainly agree with that!

[paulraphael]

I believe that bones have no flavor. It is what's on the bones and inside the bones which make good stock. ( Yes, I have done a test).

 

 

And of course what's on the outside. The bones I use are roughly trimmed carcasses from birds I've roasted. Quite a bit of meat on each one. If you buy bones from a butcher they're always roughly trimmed as well. I care about the meat more than the marrow. 

 

Agree that clean bones don't contribute flavor unless the marrow gets out (and then it's marrow flavor, nothing else). This is pretty well established now.

[jmacnaughtan]

I really pack the chicken parts into the PC, and add just barely enough water, some bay leaves, and 125 ml vinegar. That's optional, but supposedly it extracts calcium from the bones.  One hour is enough time in the PC, with a slow release.

 

Just curious- why would you want to extract calcium into your stock?

[liuzhou]

I can't answer for jayt90, but calcium is pretty useful to have in your body, as you'll discover when you get older.

 

Can I also clarify that jayt90 probably means "pressure cooker" when he refers to a PC. Making soup in your personal computer is not recommended. 

Edited November 17, 2014 by liuzhou (log)

[ChrisZ]

Break down the caracass/bones into chunks to maximize surface area and then roast them in the oven at 425 until they're golden brown.

Worth emphasising this. The key is to roast the stuff first. Yes there are different recipes / techniques for white and brown stocks but the OP only asked about a satisfying solid stock, so I don't think it really matters about semantics. Roasted wings / thighs etc etc make a huge difference.

And if the stock is simply too weak, just reduce it down until it gets stronger...

[naguere]

I buy a free-range chicken a week, cut off the breasts and freeze then roast the rest and at that, I cut the meat off and use the whole carcase for stock.

All the usual suspects go in my lovely WMF Perfect Plus German made pressure cooker.

(no hissing and fizzing with this patent pot).

Cooking time: Bring up to pressure, then let it run  for 30 minutes and here's  what you do then.

Turn of the gas and let it slowly depressurise . (it will take about an hour)   .

I make 1Ltr of good strong stock that turns to a gel.

[gdenby]

If you are using a pressure cooker, you can get some of the flavor that occurs from roasting. Roasting is more effective at producing the really good flavors, but sometimes those flavors can be very strong. Or so it seems to me. Typically, I have a mix of roasted carcass, and the bones left from de-boning thighs.

 

I too add some vinegar to extract calcium from the bones, but that seems to inevitably make the stock sort of "milky" translucent, not clear.

 

Another key to good flavor is natural glutamates. As I understand it, celery has a good bit of that and is important in traditional stocks. Chef Thos. Keller says he doesn't use celery, because it can impart bitterness. I was reading about the development of celery production, and one thing that was mentioned was that early on, different "golden" strains were used, and those were often grown in way to reduce the stalks exposure to sunlight, and render them almost blanched. Later, Pascal celery came to dominate, which grew very well in California. It can be noticeably more bitter than other celery. To avoid some of the celery bitterness, I add celery seed to an herb sachet.

 

Also, save your papery onion skins. They can add a lot of flavor and color.

 

A few times I've been roasting enough stuff, and making enough stock that once a week I could use a remnant of stock from the previous week as a base for the new batch. One time, I was able to do this 5 times in a row. The results were amazing.

[jmacnaughtan]

I can't answer for jayt90, but calcium is pretty useful to have in your body, as you'll discover when you get older.

 

Interesting.  Where I live, unfortunately, the water is extremely hard, so calcium intake is not an issue.  Is there any flavour, texture or visual reason to want to extract the calcium?  I've read that for fish stocks, at least, one of the reasons for a short cooking time is to prevent calcium from leaching out of the bones.

[monavano]

I'm a big fan of throwing the carcass and vegetables, with water, into the slow cooker overnight.

I strain the stock and refrigerate for a day to be able to remove fat the next day.

[huiray]

I confess I find puzzling the tendency of many folks to remove all fat from their stocks.  I, on the other hand, PREFER that fats from the rendering of the meat/whatnot in making the stock (whether chicken, pork,. beef, etc etc) be left in (whilst taking out large excesses, true).  There is so much more taste obtained from leaving at least some of the fat in.  The issue of clarity or non-contamination or supposed spoilage or whatnot does not hold water with me.  Perhaps there are those who feel that any fat in a soup is undesirable but I am DEFINITELY not one of them. In fact, if there isn't enough fat/oil in my soup - coming from a stock - I will add more into it.  Chicken fat chunks and duck fat chunks as well as liquid fats (vegetable oils, peanut oils, etc, for example.  And no, please don't go into lectures about eliminating fats from one's diet - you are free to rip every vestige of fats from your meal but you are not free to obsess about doing so for my meals, just in case you feel inclined to drift in that direction.

[btbyrd]

I find that if you make your stock in a traditional fashion by simmering for hours on end, the fat you end up with is often oxidized and doesn't have the good flavor one associates with fresh animal fats. A bonus of cooking in a pressure cooker is that this doesn't happen and you can save the fat from the stock for other purposes. When making chicken soup, I like to take the fat from the chicken stock and use it to cook the vegetables and brown the chicken that ends up in the soup. I do something similar when making pho to sear off the beef that ends up on top of the soup.

[scubadoo97]

I'm a pressure cooker devote. 1.5 hrs and bones crumble and stock gels like jello

[IrishJersey]

OP here; just wanted to say quick thank you to those who chimed in! Very helpful and I'll look over this thread more in detail as I have few questions to several of you already.

Will try to post more in detail and get started on my first chicken stock before turkey day

[harrysnapperorgans]

Most weeks I roast a whole chicken. The legs and thighs and wings we eat as a roast dinner. Breasts become sandwiches or a curry. I keep all the bones, break them up a bit and put in a pot with carrot, celery, unpeeled onion, few cloves of garlic, pinch of salt and cover. simmer for as long as like. I usually do about 3 hours.

[IrishJersey]

Hey IrishJersey,

How are you preparing the whole chicken?

Are you looking to make a white chicken stock or a dark chicken stock?

 

There are several ways I make chicken stock depending on what i have to work with and the desired outcome.

First couple of times, i just roasted the chicken with olive oil, salt and pepper rubbed over the bird. I like to have both, but not fussy at this time since my goal is to make a solid simple stock. 

[radtek]

Hello all-

 

Normally I buy Minors bases as it saves time but the price and shipping has become ridiculous. Been working on my stock skills with some small success.

 

Consider Mark Bittman's "How to Cook Everything" and the techniques described therein.

 

Particularly, Bittman has 3 types of chicken stock: quckest, full-flavored and a darker, richer chicken stock. The first two concern me the most.

 

For the "quickest" stock (40-60 min) whole cuts are prefered and the "full-flavored" (180+ min) are raw/cooked bones and/or chicken parts. My primary question is can I take the cooked bones from the first after stripping the meat away and add the bones with fresh chicken parts/bones for a second, separate "full flavored" stock?

 

 

 

[Martin Fisher]

Why not? I've done that for years.

[Shalmanese]

Using the spent bones of a primary stock alone is called Remouillage (second stock). Using spent bones in combination fresh bones would get you something in between a primary and secondary stock. Personally, I wouldn't do it purely because it increases the amount of water required to cover the bones. I like to make my stocks with as little water as possible so as to avoid reducing them down later.

Personally, the only time I would make a quick stock is if I need it immediately for a dish I'm cooking right now. Making a stock properly requires the exact same amount of active time as making a quick stock, just more inactive time simmering on the stove. If you really want it quicker, I'd rather invest in a pressure cooker than take shortcuts on the stove.

[scubadoo97]

I'm a big believer in using a pressure cooker for stock

[radtek]

Ah. Any suggestions on pressure cooker technique? I believe JC suggests a hybrid technique of 15 min in the PC with a quick release and then simmering for another hour.

 

I got #5 of leg-quarters for $0.97/lb and hope to make about 4 quarts of stock. Don't have a lot to do anyway.

[btbyrd]

I advise against a rapid release when making stock, as this can cause intense, spontaneous boiling that can cloud your stock. I'd cook for 1.5 hours in the PC with a slow release. I don't understand the rationale for the hybrid technique as you describe it. If you were going to do a hybrid technique, I'd cook with chicken only for 90 minutes, slow release, and then add aromatics and simmer for 30-45 minutes. That's how I do it.