Fish Sauce

[TheCulinaryLibrary]

Thanks guys will check them all out

[Broken English]

I'm a big fan of 'Squid brand'.

[nickrey]

I'm a big fan of 'Squid brand'.

The megachef brand was created by the son of the founder of Squid brand sauce. It is sometimes referred to as "son of squid."

[Ttogull]

I know nothing about fish sauce, but here is an aged version of Red Boat 40:

http://blisgourmet.com/home/products/fish-sauce-barrel-aged.html

[budrichard]

From an Australian review of Megachef:

"Ingredients: Aside from anchovy extract and water, Megachef contains sugar and fructose"

Red Boat lists 'Anchovy, Sea Salt' as the only ingrediants.

500ml Red Boat 40 is $10 direct from Red Boat + shipping which is how we purchase.

Have not seen local sale of MegaChef but 200 ml from Amazon is $16.99 USD.

Red Boat is Vietnamese and MegaChef Thai.

From my reading the best sauces are only anchovy and salt.

MegaChef does not seem to available in the Chicago area but if I find it, I will try blind tasting to compare.

I also can not acess the MegChef website to verify ingrediants.-Dick

Edited May 2, 2013 by budrichard (log)

[nickrey]

From an Australian review of Megachef:

"Ingredients: Aside from anchovy extract and water, Megachef contains sugar and fructose"

Red Boat lists 'Anchovy, Sea Salt' as the only ingrediants.

500ml Red Boat 40 is $10 direct from Red Boat + shipping which is how we purchase.

Have not seen local sale of MegaChef but 200 ml from Amazon is $16.99 USD.

Red Boat is Vietnamese and MegaChef Thai.

From my reading the best sauces are only anchovy and salt.

MegaChef does not seem to available in the Chicago area but if I find it, I will try blind tasting to compare.

I also can not acess the MegChef website to verify ingrediants.-Dick

Looking at the bottle. The sugar is 2% and fructose 1%.

These are hardly large proportions. Moreover, as fish sauce is used as a salting element in the sweet, sour, salty, piquant mix of Asian foods the addition of a bit of sweetener in these levels is hardly going to impact on its appeal in the final dish.

I'd have to say in tasting it compared with other fish sauces in my pantry, it's somehow smoother and more rounded yet still salty.

A while back I made up some prawn stock and reduced the hell out of it. I then added some salt. On tasting it, I thought I'd ruined it. However, having tasted these fish sauces made from anchovies the salt level is similar. The prawn has a similar salinity level but a much better flavour. I'm going to use it in some Thai dishes to check out how it goes in cooking.

ps. It costs around $4 for a 200g bottle here and can be found cheaper if you are willing to search.

Edited May 2, 2013 by nickrey (log)

[Willie]

I have been using three crab brand for years but recently noticed that Huiray was using red boat, I picked up a bottle and just started using it. My question is why do you use it over others or do you? Also I would like to thank you Huiray for inspiring me to look to the east when deciding what to cook each day. ( Your photos are beautiful). Look forward every day to see what your up to.   

[TheCulinaryLibrary]

While you are waiting for a reply from Huiray I thought I would mention some  interesting choices in Fish sauce.

As with many foods there are natural products and there are those that are chemically enhanced with artificial flavors and colors. With fish sauce there are also those who’s fermentation process has been reduced from 1 or 2 years down to 2 days by the addition of chemicals and enzymes. Short or artificial fermentation usually results in a strong fishy flavor and long natural fermentation in a sweet, nutty, rich flavor. I use Megachef because its 2-year natural fermentation gives it a big clean umami punch and then Red Boat is my second choice. Both are naturally fermented using traditional methods. I avoid artificial, chemically enhanced products because of their taste.

[Shel_B]

 I use Megachef because its 2-year natural fermentation gives it a big clean umami punch and then Red Boat is my second choice. Both are naturally fermented using traditional methods.

 

Have you tried Blis? http://blisgourmet.com/home/products/fish-sauce-barrel-aged.html

 

While Googling around looking for info on Megachef, I came across this taste test: http://ourdailybrine.com/fish-sauce-taste-test/

Edited May 22, 2014 by Shel_B (log)

[liuzhou]

I use two different varieties more or less at random. One is Thai; the other Vietnamese. To be honest, I can just about taste the difference if I do a direct tasting, but in a dish I probably wouldn't know which was which.

 

I'm not going to mention brands as you probably won't be able to find them, just as have never heard of the ones you are all mentioning. 

[huiray]

Willie, you're welcome and thanks for the compliments.

 

I actually have several brands in my fridge/pantry/kitchen including Flying Lion, Three Crabs, and that Red Boat brand; besides other fish sauces such as nuoc mam pha san and mam ca com an lien.  To me, Red Boat does have a cleaner taste and goes down smoothly if one were to sip it directly :-) and, as TheCulinaryLibrary noted, it is not lost on me that it is one of the brands that use just anchovies, salt and water.  It also is stated to have a higher protein content, FWIW. (I use the 40ºN one)  Since I don't use *that much* fish sauce, I tend to go with Red Boat in recent times (after I first tried it out) but it is also true that when cooking complex dishes with lots of other aromatics and spices going in it doesn't matter that much.  In fact, I can't remember if I used Red Boat or Flying Lion the last time I made a pot of pho stock, where much more than just a few splashes of fish sauce go in.  When just a few splashes of fish sauce are called for, in a stir-fry dish for example, or when mixing up a saucer of a dipping sauce with fish sauce in it straight from the bottle I just go with the Red Boat nowadays.

Edited May 22, 2014 by huiray (log)

[rotuts]

nice ref. article.  those arrow // darts got me confused a bit  ...

 

and when and where did they get the R.B.40 for that price ?

 

6.95 for 500 cc ?

[Shel_B]

nice ref. article.  those arrow // darts got me confused a bit  ...

 

and when and where did they get the R.B.40 for that price ?

 

6.95 for 500 cc ?

 

Toots and I use Red Boat 40N, but neither of us can recall what we paid for it.  I'm thinking around $9.00, yet that seems high.  Is $6.95 a good price for you?

 

I was surprised to read the comments about Megachef, which the TheCulinaryLibrary thought was very good.  It was TCL's comments that got me searching, and I was surprised to read that the sauce had added sugar, etc.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Shel_B (log)

[rotuts]

the only place around BOS that sells R.B.40 is whole foods.  it came in a 250 bottle, cant recall the exact price as i rarely go there.

 

went just for this

 

I think it was around $ 10 or maybe even more.  but ... its almost a lifetime supply

 

guess SurLaTable has it for 8.

[huiray]

Here's the pricing (exclusive of shipping) if you buy Red Boat directly from the producer.

 

My local Chinese grocery has the 40ºN 500mL bottles available - I don't remember exactly what they are charging but I think something in the 7-9 buck region seems about right if I remember correctly.  (I'm sure they get "wholesale/retail" pricing FWIW too)  My most recent purchases (i have done it several times) were from the Red Boat online website for these 500 mL bottles, plural.  Yes, my personal consumption of fish sauce, although not excessive, would certainly be more than a single bottle lasting a lifetime. :-) 

[ElsieD]

I would like to ask a stupid question: what is the difference between 40N and 50N? Or a better question might be, what do those numbers represent?

Edited to fix spelling

Edited May 22, 2014 by ElsieD (log)

[Shel_B]

I would like to ask a stupid question: what is the difference between 40N and 50N? Or a better question might be, what do those numbers represent?

Edited to fix spelling

 

The answer can be found in the taste test article referenced above:  http://ourdailybrine.com/fish-sauce-taste-test/

[Smithy]

Huh.  I can't recall seeing "Degrees" used as a measure of chemical concentration before. What's wrong with %, ppm, ug/L?

[TheCulinaryLibrary]

Shel_B, unfortunately can't get Blis in Oz but I hear it's great. Megachef does have added sugar, 2%sugar, 1%fructose, its not noticably sweet, but I love it. I agree though, Red Boat is consistently reviewed as the best and doesn't have added sugar.

ElsieD, The strength of its natural protein or Umami taste, is graded by numbers which indicate the nitrogen content per litre. When a bottles is labelled °N/1L, it indicates the concentration of fish protein in each drop. The higher the number the more fish protein, the bigger the Umami taste. That's why higher costs more.

43°N/1L =  highest protein, highest umami flavour, first extraction.

40, 30, 20 and 15°N/L, indicate subsequent extractions, after additional water(usually seawater) has been added.

[GlorifiedRice]

What about Padaek? Has anyone ever tasted it? I have some but I havent tried it yet.

Is it very strong?

[Shel_B]

43°N/1L =  highest protein, highest umami flavour, first extraction.

40, 30, 20 and 15°N/L, indicate subsequent extractions, after additional water(usually seawater) has been added.

 

FWIW, Red Boat has a 50°N, never tried it, can't ever recall seeing it except in the taste test that was linked above, likewise for New Town, which claims a 60°N

Edited May 23, 2014 by Shel_B (log)

[patrickamory]

What about Padaek? Has anyone ever tasted it? I have some but I havent tried it yet.

Is it very strong?

 

I've had Padaek at this place in Tribeca when the guy's Lao sister cooks a secret menu some nights. It is unreal how tasty it is. I want to try making it!

 

http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/05/how-to-cook-lao-food-like-a-pro-mangez-avec-moi.html

[liuzhou]

There are several websites promising to tell you "everything you need to know about fish sauce". None of them do, although some get closer than others. 

 

For a start, none know what you or I need to know. Some are just error-ridden crap: some recommend brands only because it's the only brand they can find locally; one only told me that fish sauce is sauce made from fish!

 

Most only mention Thai and/or Vietnamese sauces, ignoring Burmese, Lao, Cambodian, Filipino, Malaysian, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, British or Italian etc.

 

One, pretending to be Thai but actually Canadian ends up recommending Vietnamese sauce.

 

So I decided to explore the world and see what's actually out there and how many I can find locally.

I'll start boringly with the most familiar.

 

Thai fish sauce is nam pla - น้ําปลา in Thai. It literally means 'fish water'. The best contains only fish ( ปลา ), salt ( เกลือ ) and sugar ( น้ำตาล ). Check that ingredients list.

 

Lesser brands contain MSG ( ผงชูรส ) and caramel ( คาราเมล ). Some use hydrolyzed wheat protein ( โปรตีนข้าวสาลีไฮโดรไลซ์ ), another taste enhancer similar in effect to MSG. I suggest you avoid those (while remaining resolutely a defender of MSG in general).

 

If these is a protein count on the packaging, so much the better. 30N and above is a good indicator of quality. Unfortunately few brands include that information.

 

First-press ( ซอสกดครั้งแรก ) sauce is best in the same way that extra-virgin olive oil is. 

 

Prik nam pla ( น้ําปลาพริก ) is a table condiment or dressing containing nam pla with chilli. Sometimes it also contains lime juice and / or garlic. It is not used in cooking.

 

Of the widely available Thai fish sauce brands, Megachef and Squid are both recommended. Neither are available here so I pass that on with the usual caveats.

 

I use either of these depending on current availability. Not the best; not the worst.

 

 

 

 

 

Next: Vietnamese fish sauce.

Edited March 2 by liuzhou (log)

[liuzhou]

Vietnamese fish sauce, nước mắm is very much like its Thai cousin and the same advice applies. Simple ingredients. Anchovies (cá cơm), salt (muối), water (nước) at most, although the best only contains the first two.

 

First-pressing sauce (mắm nhĩ ) is best and if you want a stronger flavour look for mắm nêm or mắm ruốc.

 

Phú Quốc island off the southwest coast of mainland Vietnam near the Mekong Delta and Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon), is considered to make the best quality sauce. This is where the premium Red Boat brand is made alongside others.

 

Map from Red Boat Advertising.

 

If you're in the area, the factory is open for olfactory tourism Monday to Saturday 07:30 to 11:30 and 13:30 to 17:30 and all day Sundays. The address is 253,TL47, TT . Duong Dông , Phú Quốc, Kiên Giang, Vietnam.

 

Nước chấm is Vietnam's equivalent of Thailand's prik nam pla, a dressing or condiment, made using nước mắm, chilli, sugar, and lime juice. It appears on almost every table whether in restaurants or at home.

 

Nước chấm in Ho Chi Minh City restaurant

 

Although, I live near the China-Vietnam border, very little in the way of ingredients makes it across the border so I am not swimming in choices. I guess the locals just aren't interested. I can find some Vietnamese sauces online, but not the best. Here's what I have now.

 

 

and one I could get.

 

 

and one I want to get

 

 

This is a Phú Quốc brand.

 

Next: A less well known type.

 

 

Edited March 2 by liuzhou (log)

[liuzhou]

This is a strange one - maybe.

 

 

What I have here reads 韩式鱼露 (hán guó yú lù), which means 'Korean Style Fish Sauce', (literally 'fish dew') in Chinese. I always worry when I read 'style'. It usually means it's made somewhere other than the name on the label. And sure enough, this is made in Liaoning in N.E. China.

 

However, I then thought 'Hold on! Liaoning borders Korea and there has been an ethnic Korean population there for centuries. It must be them!'

 

But, then I re-reconsidered. 韩国, as printed on the label (bottom right) is South Korea and Liaoning borders North Korea (朝鲜 - cháo xiǎn). Forget that. 

 

Whatever and whoever it's made for, it's certainly Korean in style. Very similar to a Korean anchovy fish sauce (멸치액젓 -  myulch aekjeot). Thicker than most varieties - almost like a syrup, stronger tasting and saltier.

 

Interesting.