Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Top Chef: Season 3


KristiB50
 Share

Recommended Posts

An amusing review of the show from Entertainment Weekly.

In my darkest hours, like now, I think to myself that this TV show is essentially retarded.

The universe is cold and unforgiving, and nothing can save you. In fact, maybe forget baseball rules; judging from this show, cooking operates more according to the principles of frontier justice...
In the first two minutes, (1) Casey, caught sunbathing, gave us the glimpse of a tattoo on her lower right-hand ab of what looked like a tiger's pawprint (rawr!); (2) Brian sunned and read his book, which appeared to be the paperback version of The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time (excellent book, ruff ruff!); (3) CJ explained how he might only have one testicle, ''but it's more balls than all these guys got combined''; and (4) Tre vowed to stay focused.
Christopher Ciccone, who turned out to be that insufferable meathead griping about the vegetable medley et al last week. God, this man sucks. If Tom Sizemore was an 88-pound weenie who didn't know he was an 88-pound weenie, he'd be this guy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's more wit and wisdom on this one thread than has been uttered by the sum total of judges in the entire run of the three shows.

I do, of course, except every golden syllable spoken or written by our own TB in the course of his exposure to all that mayhem.

His words are sacred.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry, but even if his crappy bread pudding an inexplicable salmon dish (kind of like Sam's watermelon and blue cheese gnocci?) sucked big-time, I still think upon a second review that you could have made a stronger case for at least C.J. if not one of the other two, than for Tre.

The show has seriously lost a great deal of credibility (Hah. Can't believe I am using the term "credibility" to refer to a reality show ... on Bravo no less!) in terms of its judging, in my view. I've gotten to where I have to quickly mute the TV's volume when Padma chirps directions in that flat, harsh voice followed by an aggressive meow. "Hands up, utensils DEOWN!" And the Ted guy from Queer Eye, who I think I'll refer to as Eye, Q. for his ridiculous comments, seems impressed simply by the act of someone pouring warm cream near his lap.

Most of the famous chef guest judges kind of annoy me too in that they are so effete and affected. When did this happen to the industry? The celebrity angle has soured on me, not that I ever really cared about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brenda, are you certain you weren't born and bred in the South? That's a most beautifully tailored Southern Lady sort of comment. Knife-in-glove but kind, so kind.

True, too.

If she had said "bless her heart", the acme of southern woman insults, I would agree with you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Bless her little ole' heart" how my grandama says it. Or add "pea-picken" to that, for my mom.

Is that better????

Btw, I was born in Oklahoma, but moved to Alaska at the age of 2. Can't possibly be influenced by that................could I?! :unsure:

Brenda

I whistfully mentioned how I missed sushi. Truly horrified, she told me "you city folk eat the strangest things!", and offered me a freshly fried chitterling!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've gotten to where I have to quickly mute the TV's volume when Padma chirps directions in that flat, harsh voice followed by an aggressive meow. "Hands up, utensils DEOWN!" And the Ted guy from Queer Eye, who I think I'll refer to as Eye, Q. for his ridiculous comments, seems impressed simply by the act of someone pouring warm cream near his lap.

Well . . .warm cream near your lap can be quite nice. :smile:

But I like the name you made up. This show is ripe for a parody.

We've got two names already: Eye Q and Dick Headfoodie.

If she had said "bless her heart", the acme of southern woman insults, I would agree with you.

Unless the woman is elderly then it can be meant in a bit more tolerant way. :wink:

Maybe, since Casey was cutting that onion like a "homeless grandma" it really was meant to be in that way.

But somehow I doubt it. :raz:

...........................................................

Brenda had asked earlier who Padma was. Here's her site. She was previously married to Salman Rushdie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That would be Hung or possibly Howie because he has no hair to criticize.

Except every time I see Howie it looks like he has one of those clown-bald-heads on............... complete with the line in the forehead? :huh:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're not implying that Howie is a clown, are you now? :shock:

....................................................

One more link and then I am going. to. stop. thinking. about. this. stupid. show.

:laugh:

:blink:

Future Top Chef Advertiser Challenges

There have only been 7 episodes this season, but so far we've seen challenges centered around Kingsford charcoal, Florida citrus, Bombay Sapphire, Coldstone Creamery, and Bertolli frozen dinners. Basically, if you see a commercial for something during Top Chef, chances are that product will be not-so-seamlessly integrated into an upcoming challenge on the show in the near future.

So what other advertiser challenges does Top Chef have in store for the rest of the season? Based on commercials that aired during the show last night, here are a few possible future advertiser challenges:

--The Pantene Shiny Food Challenge: Make Pantene's Brunette Expressions shampoo taste good. Contestants have 30 minutes and unlimited access to the Top Chef pantry.

Yep, there's that hair theme again.

And my personal favorite:

--The Glad ForceFlex Challenge: Contestants are divided into teams of three. Each team is then put inside one Glad ForceFlex garbage bag (they're very stretchy!) with the following items: 1 Bunsen burner, 1 egg, and 1 comically small frying pan. Whichever team can make the fluffiest scrambled egg without suffocating or tearing a hole in their incredibly strong Glad garbage bag (featuring Glad's patented ForceFlex technology) wins.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh God. Here we go, another week in the heat of the Top Chef kitchen.

There are a lot of different elements and emotions involved in Top Chef-almost too many different facets to the show for me to try and comment on each one.

So this week, I thought I would focus solely on commenting about the food and the dishes the chefs created and the overall success of their menus.

Of course, this isn’t a qualified review because the number one element in reviewing a restaurant is missing since I wasn’t in the dining rom eating the food.

Restaurant April

Seared Sea Scallop on Corn and Black Truffle Custard

I thought the scallops looked like they were perfectly sauteed-nice brown, caramelized surface yet not overdone. The judges seemed to really like this dish, and while corn is a natural accompaniment to scallops, I thought the corn truffle looked like a gloppy mess on the plate. Presentation does account for something.

Beet Cured House Smoked Wild King Salmon, Macadamia Pesto.

I hope Tre didn't buy King Salmon from anywhere near Oregon, Alaska or Washington. If he did buy King Salmon out of our Northwest waters and then soaked it in beet juice and served it with sweet macadamia nut sauce of garlic and cheese, the State Police from Oregon, Alaska and Washington have a warrant for his arrest. As the judges remarked-"too many messy flavors" and it was "digusting." Enough said.

Chilled Carrot-Coconut Ginger Soup with Shitake Bacon

Oh Casey you silly girl! And I thought bacon came from the belly of pigs-not the woodsy fungi we call the Shitake mushroom. The dish sounds good and I'd certainly serve it, hot or cold, as part of a summer dinner menu. But come on, call a Shitake a mushroom and cured pork bacon. OK Casey?

Lobster Salad with Arugula and Caramelized Cauliflower, Golden Raisins, Vinaigrette

A laudable attempt by CJ. But I agree with the judges comments that there were too many competing flavors. Just the sound of combining succulent and sweet lobster with sticky raisins and what can be the slightly bitter taste of caramelized cauliflower doesn't sound really appetizing. Maybe a simpler lobster salad with a unique vinaigrette would have worked better from a flavor standpoint.

Monkfish on Mascarpone Mashed Potatoes, Beuerre blanc

Casey, Casey, Casey. Why on earth, or ocean, would you serve a buttery, tender and sweet filet of monkfish on cheesey potatoes? Poor girl, she looks like she's about to barf whenever she is criticized. And a chef that doesn't properly cook fish, off with their head! To add to her anguish Casey admitted "the fish was a bit dry." Translation-overcooked.

Beef Tenderloin with a Mushroom Crust with Smoked Potatoes

Looked good to me, and I didn't see the judges spit out the smoked potatoes this time so I assume the smoked potatoes were not overcooked and properly smoked. I think it sounds like a good, if somewhat ordinary, dish.

Granny Smith Brioche Bread Pudding, Cinnamon and Brandy Anglaise

After the Salmon disaster earlier in the meal, Tre couldn't afford to fall in his pastry skills. If he did, along with a lack of strong leadership as the Executive Chef, he was going to be gone.

Well, we all know that the bread pudding failed and Tre was shown the door to the parking lot. Ted Allen was spot on with his criticism-you don't have to be a pastry chef to make a decent bread pudding.

I think Tre sold bread pudding short when he said he decided on doing bread pudding because it was an easy recipe to do in a short amount of time. Talk to some old-fashioned bakers in the age group of your Great-Grandmother. They'll tell you bread pudding is a 'simple' recipe, but like any recipe, it can't be rushed and you have to add just the right amount of egg and cream to the bread. If you rush things you may not be taking the time to insure you've got enough liquid to make the finished bread pudding creamy and soft. Tre-next time slow down a bit and make sure you're giving your bread pudding the time and effort necessary.

Overall grade: B-. Decent dishes that were a bit off the mark in terms of flavor combinations and lagging technique. Only fair marks for a lack of cohesiveness in how the dishes worked together as part of a complete menu. Fair to poor leadership by the Executive Chef and fair to poor teamwork by all four team members.

Restaurant Garage

(or Restaurant Quarke, Quirk or whatever they renamed it).

Tuna Tartare with Egg Vinaigrette, Nicoise Olives

Good job Hung. Simple, clean flavors with a hint of saltiness from the Nicoise olives. A nice light start to a menu that will prove to have a consistent, well-thought procession from appetizer to entree to dessert. I have forgiven Hung for his boyish crush and silly giggling at the sight of Mr. Boulud last week. You go Hung.

Poussin with Mint Gnocchi, Sweet Pea Puree, Carrots and Hazelnuts

I give Howie some kudos for the success of Dale's dish. While Dale was shopping for the interior design elements of the revamped restaurant, Howie took to the market. When he realized the market didn't have enough rabbit for the dish Dale had planned, he bought Poussin instead-a good substitute. When I heard Dale was planning on Rabbit as part of his appetizer dish, I was hoping for a Ballontine of Rabbit stuffed with Black Truffles and then served cold. That was probably a bit pretentious on my part. I think the Poussin dish went over well with the judges.

Halibut with Grapes and Braised Leeks, Grape Sauce

Sara hit a ball far into the outfield with this dish. Halibut is one of our holy grails in the Northwest so we are quite pleased when chefs don't gussy it up with silly, uncompatible ingredients. Good job Sara for keeping things simple. And Steven, you snooty man with the fat tie, I am sure you paired the perfect wine with the Grape Sauce in Sara's dish.

Rack of Lamb with White Beans, Haricot Verts and Fried Shallots

I thought Howie designed the perfect meat dish for this menu. The menu started with milder flavors and textures and by this point in the meal, I bet the diners were ready for some red meat. While the camera didn't do it justice, or dis-justice I should say, according to Bourdain's blog, Howie's lamb wasn't just rare, it was RAW! Howie is still the bomb waiting to explode. When he got pissed at Sara's direction in the kitchen he slammed the oven door so hard I thought it would fall off. And his crappy attitude wasn't lost on Colicchio. It's almost as if the producer's are purposely sending Howie through to the end, only to see him fall into a barrel of rotten sardines in the final episode. Good dish in theory but it sounds as though the execution fell off the mark.

Panna Cotta with Fresh Berries

I've always sensed Hung was a good chef. And since he left his ego at the coat check counter outside the dining room, he's seemed to mellow and it's shown in his cooking. I still think he's a dangerous guy running around the kitchen with a knife. He excoriated those poor little chickens in literally seconds. Thank God he didn't chop off his fingers when he clipped the wings of those chickens earlier in the show. But back to the Panna Cotta-the perfect light, creamy, smooth dessert with fresh berries to finish off the meal, especially after the somewhat heave lamb and white bean entree. Simple and looking delicious. Good job Hung. Now next week get back to your creative side. Remember the Geoduck with Black Chicken Hung? Push the envelope a bit more in the next few weeks and you could surprise some people.

Overall grade: A-. Tre said he was a calm Executive Chef. His calm did him under. He needed to stay focused and under control, but when he needed to, he didn't push his team to perform. Sara did. She stayed while showing the skills of a strong leader. She wasn't afraid to knock Howie and Hung down a few notches if she needed to. She kept her team under wraps and in control of their emotions. It showed in the food, the execution of the cooking and the presentations on the plate. The menu had a beginning, middle and end that was cohesive. Nice job.

Overall winner: Tre, A. For having class, being humble and admitting to his faults, fostering teamwork and not losing his integrity by treating others badly and using profanity in the kitchen during his weeks on the show, his creativity with ingredients, and for being a damn good cook.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being from Dallas I was definitely rooting for Tre. He's a great cook at a really well regarded Dallas restaurant, and I know he will do great things in the future. I was sad to see him go--he truly seemed like one of the few chefs on that show (in any of the 3 seasons) who embodied the integrity that really great chefs stand for.

I'm proud of him for being on the show, and even prouder for him leaving the show like he did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After thinking about it for a little bit, why would Tre need the title of top chef anyway? I think this was his launching point for his restaurant, and he's been twice nominated for a James Beard already... from Texas of all places. Though I will say 100k woulda been nice, I think this A) gives him a loyal following and B) gives him a legitimate shot in hell to win something other than best chef southwest and/or something like a f&w best new chef.

Either way, I'm sure he knows personally that he could outcook and can see that he outclassed most if not the rest of the field, and he seems pretty sured of himself. There probably sn't a reason not to be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the A.V. club article referenced earlier:

Basically, if you see a commercial for something during Top Chef, chances are that product will be not-so-seamlessly integrated into an upcoming challenge on the show in the near future.

The cheftestants are so lucky that Pampers doesn't seem to be a sponsor. A high-fiber meal, resulting in the healthiest "leavings", wins 200 lbs of Pampers and a year's supply of Gold Bond Medicated Powder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stephen the most talented in the show? Damn, I found him nearly unwatchable except for the comedic value of his overt vanity.

Re-watching the last episode, it seems Sweaty Bear Howie should have gone. People seemed to like the burgers better than his rock-hard Cubans, and his outbursts are ridiculous. Again, I go back to something I posted long ago: you have to compose yourself a little bit knowing that your utterances will be broadcast on TV.

And speaking of which, today they re-ran some Season II and I had forgotten how god-awful it was. I think I'd have to add Ilan to Paula Abdul and that house-flipper guy in the battle between worst humans on television. And in every rewatching, I think Sam comes off horribly, too, just entirely frattish and cooool, brah. People loved him, but I think he intended this and was very calculated in his persona. Betty was also unwatchable.

Speaking of Stephen, he's returned! :wub: And now I'm officially a Dale hater.

Seriously though, the guy was only 22 years old when he was to the show (although he looks to be around 30's). His food might not be as good as it looks, but damn, it looks damn good. Perhaps only Marcel and Tre come close to Stephen as far as plating is concerned.

And the guy did won 2 quickfires and was the runner up in 5 elimination challenges. Among all the contestants, I think he was the only one that was never on the middle. He was either runner up or close to elimination (one was the microwave crap and in the restaurant wars).

I was looking forward to see him and Harold on the finals, but they, in my biased opinion, framed him in the Gay Marriage Episode.

Well, back to season 3...I was at first pissed with last week's episode because the restaurant April definitely had more flaws than the Garage, but somehow justice has been made. In my opinion it was correct to send Tre home. I do consider him a talented guy, but he did screw up in the opening and in the re-opening.

Well, people tend to root for the most charismatic people. Howie, despite his risoto is a batter cook (way better than most from season 2 - Ilan included) than some guys on the blogs make him out to be.

Oh and it's also becoming a cliche: Every time someone claims to be able to do something during their sleep (like bread pudding) it's bound to fail for sure. ("Hung: If I can't cook rice I don't deserve to be here" or something like that).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Warning: Those who detest philosophy, skip this post. :rolleyes:

I've become rather sad today about this show.

Yes, I know I promised I was not going to think about the show anymore but then after thinking about it all day long yesterday from various angles something started stewing in my mind.

What it was is this: If this show were to be thought of as a recipe, it would not be a recipe from (insert your favorite classic contemporary cookbook with style and substance here). It's not a recipe created a masterchef itself.

Rather, the recipe for this show has been created by someone (or more likely multiple someones, as there is not the mark of an individual on it) whose job description more closely resembles that of a corporate chef for McDonalds (or insert your favorite mass-production fast-food place here).

Nothing wrong with McDonalds or similar places, of course. They exist, they serve a need, they even are good in their own ways.

But they aren't the French Laundry or even close to it and they don't try to be. They are a different animal. The trick here is that this is a McDonald's recipe that uses French Laundry themes and touches in a desire to put a high-quality veneer on the thing. And it isn't a high-quality thing. It doesn't show the gleaming taste of the truth of good honest ingredients.

The recipe is a mix of good talented chefs of the sort that work in venues that are not dog-and-pony shows nor dog-and-fry places combined with the oddest collection of celebrities whom seemingly have been gathered at random from some Celebrity Pool. Put in a fishline and whomever bites, along they come by the dozen, unceasingly like herrings in a net. Then toss with product endorsements passed off as A Useful and Good Thing. Not all that honest, and it adds a strange flavor though one that can almost pass unnoticed in the excitement of it all. Add the chefs themselves placed in challenges that are truly challenging, but don't focus solely on the actual work challenges, instead focus their flavor as a mixture of work challenges with the very personal. The tattoos on the tummy, the sweat on the brow, the blurs in the hot tub. . .

If this show were a recipe it would be coming from the Simple 1-2-3 One Dish (Using Canned Goods) Cookbook. It would be a recipe written meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator, and what you get in the end is something approximating the taste of trash.

How is trash different than real food? I don't know. I know that most everyone has a taste for it now and then. I know some people thrive on it. And I know that sometimes after I eat it I feel bad.

I feel bad and sad today because all these chefs being focused on are real people, all talented people, all people I would smile at and be happy to say hello to in real life, to share a story of this or that which happened to them, to wish them all well. And instead this show (and it somehow is different, this show, than a real competition like a football game where the elements are cleaner unless one wants to muddy them up) has made me reduce these people to play-doll images who only exist to serve the purpose of a game on a screen.

That's something I feel bad about today, within myself about myself. Regardless of whether the contestants chose to do this or not. There's something off-tasting about the basic recipe.

We'll see if that off-taste is strong enough to keep me away from the TV set next Wednesday night, or whether my urge for junkfood betrays my wishes to be a better self. It may be a trashy recipe but it's an oddly compelling one too.

Edited by Carrot Top (log)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel bad and sad today because all these chefs being focused on are real people, all talented people, all people I would smile at and be happy to say hello to in real life, to share a story of this or that which happened to them, to wish them all well. And instead this show (and it somehow is different, this show, than a real competition like a football game where the elements are cleaner unless one wants to muddy them up) has made me reduce these people to play-doll images who only exist to serve the purpose of a game on a screen.

Quite a lovely post Carrot Top. You've echoed some of my sentiments and feelings exactly, particularly the bit I quoted above. These are real people with real lives and not necessarily the caraciatures Bravo has created.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With all the talk about Tre and his errors. I must agree he is very talented but he screwed up by the numbers last night. Of all else that has been highlighted, I see no mention of the fact that one of the things that was included in the challange was for the teams to prepare two (2) selections in each category and I count bread pudding as one, and saw no second. What's up with that, I didn't even hear a peep from the judges about that. Also note the covenant at the end credits; something to the effect that producers were consulted in certain situations...the unseen judges wielding powerful influence no doubt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe I'm just missing something, but it seems to me that nobody that has ever work in restaurants could possibly have knife skills as pathetic as what we saw with Casey. I really think this was a set up of some sort. Even the dishwasher in a good restaurant has better knife skills than that!!! I just don't know. It just seemed to pathetic to me to be real. She was probably crying less over the onions and the fact that her "knife wasn't sharp" (hard to believe and she could have asked one of her teammates to give her a sharp knife) and more over the fact that she knew she was forced to look pathetic on national television.

I also think with as much as Tre screwed up, he should have gone home. But with his past record, I think Tre was either told he had to "take one for the team" because he was head and shoulders above the others and it would not make for good non-reality (oops, sorry....reality) TV or Tre decided that it wasn't worth it to go any further.

Of course, with the above comment I made about Casey, if she really was forced to look pathetic, Tre might have decided that because of that, he would rather leave than at some point be told he had to look pathetic too.

Who know? Just some thoughts. But I still cannot believe for one second that someone with the experience that Casey has could, in reality, be that pathetic at any mise of any sort. Rachel Ray can do better than that!!!!

--- KensethFan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The producers of Top Chef really have a win-win production format. Much of the drama we see on the screen each week happens behind the scenes-and it's those moments caught by the wandering eye of the camera that give the producers a refrigerator of dramatic bites to give to the editing room.

Whether it's Howie slamming an oven door, Hung gushing at Boulud or Casey looking like her lunch is coming back up through her throat when she is critiqued, you can't script moments like that. It's a producer and editor's lunch handed to then on a sliver platter.

So you have the judges table which seems to be the red meat of the show so to speak. Then you add twenty of the unscripted clips to build drama and drop in another ten clips or so of the contestants making on-camera comments and voila, you have a show. I really think it's a successful production format.

But that doesn't mean I agree with the way the show is presented or many of the elements that go into the editing of the show, the judging criteria or the challenges that are given to the chefs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not surprized that they dumped Tre. At least they didn't have a head shaving episode to justify it.

Tre was one of the best consistantly through this show. They let the hap hazard hosts and others slide, but dumped this guy? Give me a break.

I cannot understand why TC dumps talent for drama, I get it, its reality tv, but to shave off the best and leave behing someone who can't even cut an onion? I had Ramsey screaming in my head during this whole episode. Also, Why only one gone? THey skipped a week there was at least two hacks, and tre was not one of them that deserved to go home!

Tom C disappoints me when he did not send two home after they gave them a second chance.

**************************************************

Ah, it's been way too long since I did a butt. - Susan Fahning aka "snowangel"

--------------------

One summers evening drunk to hell, I sat there nearly lifeless…Warren

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After thinking about it for a little bit, why would Tre need the title of top chef anyway? I think this was his launching point for his restaurant, and he's been twice nominated for a James Beard already... from Texas of all places. Though I will say 100k woulda been nice, I think this A) gives him a loyal following and B) gives him a legitimate shot in hell to win something other than best chef southwest and/or something like a f&w best new chef.

Either way, I'm sure he knows personally that he could outcook and can see that he outclassed most if not the rest of the field, and he seems pretty sured of himself. There probably sn't a reason not to be.

This is exactly my thinking. Tre is a chef's chef. Or will be in the near future. If being top chef puts you in the club with Ilan, well, no thank you. I'll pass. Harold on the other is fine. I just think the TC designee isn't going to make or break Tre's career. He is a class act, all the way. Had a bad night for sure, but still a classy guy.

"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since we seem to be living in a time of instant celebrity, I think all the final contestants on Top Chef, er, the top 8 or so, will probably be successful in the food industry in some manner.

People will go to Tre's restaurant just for the opportunity to eat food made by a 'celebrity' from Top Chef. I bet Tre could care less about that fact, but he's probably perceptive enough to realize that regardless of what happened this week, it's one more positive bullet point to put on his cooking resume. Being reasonably young, I think he's got a great future ahead of himself, and I see him staying true to himself as a cook-not venturing into the three-ring Rocco/Bertolli frozen Italian entree circus.

If you go over to the Guy Savoy thread you'll see a review from BryanZ about his recent dining experience at the eponymous Las Vegas temple of Savoy's art. Bryan mentions that the 'bread boy,' Joshua, was more than happy to engage them in gossip about Hung and his turn on Top Chef.

So even at such a sacred chapel of haute French Cuisine as Guy Savoy, the celebrity of Hung's appearance on Top Chef has found it's way into the dining room.

I think the finalists have been handed a huge career boost by appearing on Top Chef. Now it's just up to them to take the football and run with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...