The Sourdough Starter Topic

[ElsieD]

With my starter now up and running, I was thinking about pancakes. Sourdough pancakes. As an fyi, the link above is not for sourdough pancakes, even though the geniuses at the Food Network like to call them that.

This one is though...nourished kitchen.

As you know from this thread, I am new to sourdough. I did make the pancakes in the Food Network link, although I used my own starter. To me, the ingredients in the two recipes look very similar so I would like to know, what makes the one from Nourishedkitchen more authentic than the one from Food Network if you are using your own starter? Is it the flour (I use I unbleached AP flour vs the grain flour) that makes the difference or the fact you mix the flour with the starter 8 to 12 hours before you use it? Thank you. Edited October 31, 2014 by ElsieD (log)

[weinoo]

Take a look at that starter in the Food Network recipe linked. It's made with commercial yeast.  1.5 tablespoons of it!  Hardly a sourdough starter, more like some weird poolish.

[ElsieD]

Take a look at that starter in the Food Network recipe linked. It's made with commercial yeast.  1.5 tablespoons of it!  Hardly a sourdough starter, more like some weird poolish.

As I said, I did not use the FN "starter", I used my own starter made as per Mick's instructions. As I had never made sourdough pancakes before, I had to start somewhere and I was grateful for the link. I did use the measured amounts of the other imgredients called for in that recipe and we were very happy with the results. I am hoping that someone can answer my question which is, using your own starter, not using the "starter" called for in the FN recipe, what is it that makes the recipe provided by the Nourished kitchen so much better than the FN? Is it the overnight sit of the flour mixed with the starter or the type of flour used?

[cakewalk]

I'm wondering about the baking soda, which appears in both pancake recipes mentioned above. What it is doing there? Is it just for browning? But the pancakes will be fried, so wouldn't they brown anyway? Re the question above (if I may), I think the addition of yeast (and so much of it) moves it away from actual sourdough, even though it uses a starter. It doesn't make either recipe better or not better, it's just a question of whether or not it is sourdough. I think that's the crux of Mick's thread, the idea that commercial yeast is really unnecessary. But that baking soda, really, what would happen if you left it out? (For the record, I'll never try either of these. I hate pancakes altogether, sourdough or not sourdough, not nobody not no-how. It's a texture thing.)

[ElsieD]

From what I have read, I think that baking soda is a browning aid, but I don't know that for sure as I am not an experienced baker. I did make sourdough pancakes again today using the Nourishedkitchen recipe. It calls for the addition of flour to the starter which is left on the counter for between 8 to 12 hours. Mine was left for 12. The FN recipe did not call for additional flour nor did it call for any sitting time. In both recipes I used my own starter, no commercial yeast added. I preferred the FN recipe as I found it to be more tender. The NK one definitely had more chew to it. But, I guess it depends on how you like your pancakes.

[Chelseabun]

I have just taken a look at the Nourished kitchen recipe.  Can i not just add some egg and blueberrys to the starter i discard when i feed it?

Edited November 1, 2014 by Chelseabun (log)

[pbear]

Hey cakewalk and Elsie.  Regarding baking soda in the sourdough pancake recipes, the other thing it adds is leavening, at least when used with a true sourdough starter.  (This is in addition to the leavening produced by the yeast.) The starter, of course, is a bit sour, from lactic and acetic acids.  These react with the baking soda, which is mildly alkaline, to produce bubbles.  The same thing happens with Irish soda bread, only the acidic agent is buttermilk.  In both cases, the reaction probably neutralizes any effect of soda on browning.  But, as cakewalk says, that's not a problem, as the pancakes are fried.

 

As for your last question, cakewalk, absolutely.  In fact, that's a common reason for making sourdough pancakes.

[Ann_T]

I fed both my starters on Thursday night and made a "preferment" with 60g of discarded starter, 225g of flour and 225g water.  Left if covered on the counter over night.  

 

 

This is what it looked like 7 hours later.

 

 

It went into a batch of dough Friday morning  - 1000g flour, 680g water and 27g salt.   Two autolyze rests, and a number of stretch and folds over the first hour and then into the fridge.  It came out of the fridge today just before 3:00pm and was ready to shape shortly after 6:00 pm.

 

Baked in Dutch Ovens.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Ann_T (log)

[Anna N]

So it has been a few days since I mixed up a stirrable concoction of flour and water. This morning it looked like this.

I moved it into a clean container and added 100 g of flour and 100 g of filtered water. I covered it loosely it with saran wrap and crossed all my toes and all my fingers.

I was away all day and came home to this!

If I understand things correctly tomorrow I will discard one half of this and feed the remaining with equal parts flour and water. Cover it loosely and let it sit for another day.

Edited to add

And repeat that same procedure for a few days until I am satisfied that I have a healthy starter.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Anna N (log)

[Ann_T]

Anna, Looks like crossing your toes and fingers worked.

 

~Ann  

[cakewalk]

The next installment of the Serious Eats bread series is up. As mentioned before, he is not dealing with sourdough. But his information is excellent, especially today because he is troubleshooting possible problems that can be applied also to sourdough baking. He says he will eventually get to sourdough.

 

http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/11/troubleshoot-bad-bread-messed-up-loaf.html

[ElsieD]

The next installment of the Serious Eats bread series is up. As mentioned before, he is not dealing with sourdough. But his information is excellent, especially today because he is troubleshooting possible problems that can be applied also to sourdough baking. He says he will eventually get to sourdough.

 

http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/11/troubleshoot-bad-bread-messed-up-loaf.html

Thanks for this link. I didn't know about it and plan to read all that he has to say on the subject.

[Anna N]

Anna, Looks like crossing your toes and fingers worked.

 

~Ann

And so it did for quite a number of days. It seemed extremely lively until yesterday morning. I fed it in the same way using the same ingredients and today it appears to be as dead as a door nail. Damn. Just as I was about to use it to make some bread. I will feed it again this morning as always and see what happens but my hopes are dashed.

[Chelseabun]

And so it did for quite a number of days. It seemed extremely lively until yesterday morning. I fed it in the same way using the same ingredients and today it appears to be as dead as a door nail. Damn. Just as I was about to use it to make some bread. I will feed it again this morning as always and see what happens but my hopes are dashed.

 

Mine rises up and then deflates.  Are you sure that it hasn't just got very lively and is flat because it needs another feed? 

[Anna N]

Mine rises up and then deflates.  Are you sure that it hasn't just got very lively and is flat because it needs another feed?

I am not sure of anything. It simply did not increase at all after the feeding yesterday morning. I took 100 g of that this morning, fed it 100g each of flour and water and now it has a very few puny bubbles and no increase in volume at all.

Since I am following the same routine in the same place using the same ingredients it is very frustrating that I am not getting the same results.

[Smithy]

I'm far from my notes and starter, but as I recall my starter began to look lively and then just sulked for a few days, barely bubbling with the same treatment each day; then it took off. Keep the faith!

[ElsieD]

Mine looked like nothing also but on the eighth day it sprung to life and has been happily alive ever since.

Edited November 6, 2014 by ElsieD (log)

[pbear]

Anna, try this.  For tomorrow's refreshment, do 100 g exactly the same as you have been.  This way you have a baseline or control.  Then, take another 100 g (which ordinarily you would discard), give it the same feeding and then frappe it with an immersion blender.  Aeration helps the yeast.  Run this second starter parallel to the control for three days, i.e., prune back and rebuild both on the same schedule, frapping only the second.  I'm pretty confident that'll turn the trick.  Once the starter is up and running, by the way, you can drop the frapping.

[Chelseabun]

And so it did for quite a number of days. It seemed extremely lively until yesterday morning. I fed it in the same way using the same ingredients and today it appears to be as dead as a door nail. Damn. Just as I was about to use it to make some bread. I will feed it again this morning as always and see what happens but my hopes are dashed.

 

My first attempt was with a white flour starter (see post #12).  I felt there wasn't something right with it as although it was fermenting, it was very slow.  My second attempt started with rye flour and then after it was established was fed with only white flour.  I found the second starter was active from very early on and i am confident that it will give my bread enough rise. 

 

I would suggest therefore, you may like to try (alongside your white starter) a second starter (from rye flour).

 

Just to prove mine is working, here is my starter in slow motion:

 

http://youtu.be/xbTsG64Vtq4

copyright statement: This video was shot by me in my kitchen and i therefore own the copyright.

The background music was provided free by youtube and is therefore covered by their standard licence arrangements.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Chelseabun (log)

[Anna N]

Anna, try this.  For tomorrow's refreshment, do 100 g exactly the same as you have been.  This way you have a baseline or control.  Then, take another 100 g (which ordinarily you would discard), give it the same feeding and then frappe it with an immersion blender.  Aeration helps the yeast.  Run this second starter parallel to the control for three days, i.e., prune back and rebuild both on the same schedule, frapping only the second.  I'm pretty confident that'll turn the trick.  Once the starter is up and running, by the way, you can drop the frapping.

I certainly have nothing to lose by trying this. And I will give it a go. But my my goal when I began and my goal now is to test Mick's theory that all one needs is flour, water, some patience and a feeding routine. Thank you for the suggestion and I will let you know how it goes.

[Anna N]

My first attempt was with a white flour starter (see post #12).  I felt there wasn't something right with it as although it was fermenting, it was very slow.  My second attempt started with rye flour and then after it was established was fed with only white flour.  I found the second starter was active from very early on and i am confident that it will give my bread enough rise. 

 

I would suggest therefore, you may like to try (alongside your white starter) a second starter (from rye flour).

 

Just to prove mine is working, here is my starter in slow motion:

 

http://youtu.be/xbTsG64Vtq4

copyright statement: This video was shot by me in my kitchen and i therefore own the copyright.

The background music was provided free by youtube and is therefore covered by their standard licence arrangements.

Thank you for posting this. That is exactly what my starter was doing until it suddenly stopped doing it! But let me ask you this. Do you Feed it at approximately the same time every day or do you feed it according to its rising and falling cycles?

[Chelseabun]

Thank you for posting this. That is exactly what my starter was doing until it suddenly stopped doing it! But let me ask you this. Do you Feed it at approximately the same time every day or do you feed it according to its rising and falling cycles?

'Yeastie' (my name for my starter) gets fed about the same time each day but when it was started (about two weeks ago) initially  was fed about once every two days (i.e. when required). Now i am thinking about baking with 'Yeastie', i will increase the feeds to approx. every eight hours (i.e. according to it's rising and falling cycle approximately).

 

I really wish i had the answer for you.  I thought you had it working out well when you posted the photo of your starter fermenting.  I am used to using commercial yeasts for bread, beer and wine-making.  Wild yeast cultures are new to me.  I am learning with you here.  Regards.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Chelseabun (log)

[Smithy]

Anna, have you made any progress? Did your starter survive?

I had to leave my starter untended for over 3 weeks. To hedge my bets I split it and put some in the freezer and some in the refrigerator. Yesterday I found time to tend to the refrigerator starter. It didn't look bad, straight from its confinement:

It looked surprisingly lively, but boy, was it sour!

I used Mick's method of 100g each starter, water and all-purpose unbleached flour. This water may have been chlorinated, and that worries me a bit, but I had no other source of water. Here's what I had after mixing:

The container on the left is the leftover starter; on the right is the freshly-mixed and -fed starter.

24 hours later, look at it!

I'll feed it another couple of days, and if all goes well I'll have a chance to start baking again soon.

[Anna N]

's Missy,

I have made multiple attempts since I last posted. Today I will discard a very dead started that is on my counter at the moment. It does not seem possible that something so simple could defeat me but for the time being it has.

[Anna N]

First of all I apologize. I had addressed my response to Smithy and when I hit post it looked fine but when you dictate it seems things can go wrong.

I had every intention of dumping my dead starter this morning and abandoning the game for the time being. However, this is what it looked like after being abandoned on my counter for who knows how many days. So I moved half of it into a scrupulously clean container, added 100 g each of flour and water and we will see what transpires. I swear this is my last attempt this year!