Observer Food Monthly

[ajnicholls]

An interesting debate, of which I have to say I tend to agree slightly more with Jay.

Most of the 'mass market' food magazines have some pointless celebrity obsessed article. Or some shite by Jamie Oliver.

OFM is free, manages to have a diverse range of writing, and yes, some of it is total bollocks (esp. that awful celeb table stuff)

It does manage to get decent writers, covers good restaurants and I won't have a word said against Nigel Slater, as it was his recipes that taught me to cook.

The Observer's readership is no-where near as food obsessed as this forum; we should be glad that at least they make some effort with covering food.

[Tim Hayward]

Is this more what you're thinking of?

link to Petit Propos Culinaire

Think I have a collection of articles and writings from this somewhere - found it interesting but ultimately too clever for me.

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There is, of course, PPC.

But between editions I'm still starved.

[danlepard]

What would be the sort of article mix you'd like to read in OFM?*

Dan

*Assuming it still has to have those pop-edged stories that are popular with many readers, sell on the newstand, and stay young and lively without knocking readers into a noble slumber? If you were king?

Edited November 20, 2006 by danlepard (log)

[Adam Balic]

It's not about individual pieces. It's about the whole package. A piece from the New Statesman would be (and has been) fine. The New Statesman itself sells just 30,000 copies. We sell over half a million.

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Undeniably true.

So I suppose what I'm saying is that it's a rotten shame the UK doesn't deserve a publication that's the foodie equivalent of the New Statesman - small circulation special interest

Maybe there aren't enough of us to make it worthwhile.

But, in the meantime, the Spectator and Private Eye seem to have dropped their food columns altogether and increasingly, I can't find anything to read.

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Waitrose mag or read blogs on-line I guess.

[Tim Hayward]

What would be the sort of article mix you'd like to read in OFM?*

Dan

*Assuming it still has to have those pop-edged stories that are popular with many readers, sell on the newstand, and stay young and lively without knocking readers into a noble slumber? If you were king?

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Oh what a dream.

I'd like to lead with something intelligent, well written and informative. John Thorne, Margaret Visser, HFW, Nicola Humble, Alan Davidson, Jim Harrison, Sue Shephard, Alan Richman, Mark Kurlansky and Ben Rogers would all get a go. There have to be 12 intelligent books written about food every year - that means there are at least 12 people to commission to write an interesting article. If I was allowed to bring people back from the dead I'd also commission, La David, Lucius Beebe, MFK and Alice Thomas Ellis.

I'd have a nice 1000 word Stiengartenesque piece on an ingredient or technique, I'd get Sophie Grigson out of semi-retirement for some seasonal recipes, there would, of course, be a bakery column. Wine - I'm not sure about. I'd have Marina run the restaurant reviews, from the office, with a rod of iron, with a regularly re-iterated star system and a team of anonymous reviewers to actually go out and sit in restaurants.

Anthony Bourdain gets a column on TV chefs.

I'd serialise a cookery course of the quality of Julia Child's 'Mastering the art...'

There would be a cartoon strip of cookery tips by Len Deighton.

There would be forensically photographed pages on techniques, a regular few pages for Robert Freson to do something nice, some truly lubricious shots of finished dishes and a centre spread of Nigella Lawson, entirely naked, every week.

We'd also hire a different comedy writer for every edition to make sure we were actually able to have a laugh about food.

We wouldn't run articles that were thinly disguised puffs for shows, books, restaurants or individuals

I'd have it perfect bound, on heavy paper, at convenient size for reading on the tube or the loo.

It would NOT include any celebrities, unless they could cook. And although Gordon 'fucking' Ramsay qualifies under that stricture, I'd have a special rule that ensured that he, his restaurants and members of his family were permanently excluded. I know that's unfair but, fuck it, I'm king.

It wouldn't actually have a cover price but you could obtain a copy on application and completion of a short written test.

[Winot]

John Thorne, Margaret Visser, HFW, Nicola Humble, Alan Davidson, Jim Harrison, Sue Shephard, Alan Richman, Mark Kurlansky and Ben Rogers would all get a go.

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Too late, I'm afraid.

[bakerestates]

I'd like to lead with something intelligent, well written and informative.

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edited by eGullet's Tim Hayward.

There is no reason why this could not be done and succed. If a magazines like Decanter can survive then surely there are enough people to buy something along these lines.....more intelligent, in depth, less mass appeal recipies & contributors etc,.... a more specialist publication that discusses things that are seen on this forum not Olive or Waitrose. Think of Wallpaper or Wunderlust but for food.

I get bored of OFM because what appears in it is similar to other weekend supplements and the biggest gripe I have is the comparrisons it does on supermarket food. Why not just forget the supermarkets and promote non-supermarket produce.

[jayrayner]

I'd like to lead with something intelligent, well written and informative.

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edited by eGullet's Tim Hayward.

There is no reason why this could not be done and succed. If a magazines like Decanter can survive then surely there are enough people to buy something along these lines.....more intelligent, in depth, less mass appeal recipies & contributors etc,.... a more specialist publication that discusses things that are seen on this forum not Olive or Waitrose. Think of Wallpaper or Wunderlust but for food.

I get bored of OFM because what appears in it is similar to other weekend supplements and the biggest gripe I have is the comparrisons it does on supermarket food. Why not just forget the supermarkets and promote non-supermarket produce.

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A tiny point on Tim's dream magazine (one I would obviously love to read) - putting aside the dead people you would like to commission - could you possibly budget it please. Any idea how much Bourdain costs for example..?

As to the produce we do a mixture of both supermarket and non, varying in proportion from month to month. We are a mass market publication. Most people shop in superrmarkets. Our job is to tell them if any of it is any good - while also running long pieces on the pineapple business, factory farming of fish, or the industrialisation of Fairtrade which point out where the supermarkets are screwing up.

And now, only because I'm bloody busy working on a mag you all hate, I am going to withdraw from the discussion, not because I don't like arguing. Clearly I do. But because I have a family to support doing satan's work.

[ravelda]

What can I say Tim - if that kind of a mag existed I would deffinately be a signed up member!

Sorry you have to leave the Forum Jay, it has been interesting hearing your views on things and getting a reflection of the reality of the situation at the Observer.

[Bapi]

Sorry you have to leave the Forum Jay, it has been interesting hearing your views on things and getting a reflection of the reality of the situation at the Observer.

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Don't worry ravelda. He stated he was leaving the discussion on this topic, not the forum for good. The poor chap is far too addicted to leave.

He has a very good point though. How the fuck is OFM supposed to please all of the people all of the time? It is as he writes, a mass market magazine, which aims to be accessible to anyone with the slightest interest in food. It could not possibly hope to do so, especially not a pernickety, food obsessed straggle like us.

Edited November 21, 2006 by Bapi (log)

[Simon_S]

He has a very good point though. How the fuck is OFM supposed to please all of the people all of the time? It is as he writes, a mass market magazine, which aims to be accessible to anyone with the slightest interest in food. It could not possibly hope to do so, especially not a pernickety, food obsessed straggle like us.

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That's as may be, but surely Tim's Nigella idea would please all-comers?

Si

[Bapi]

Next issue: What does Paris Hilton like between two baps?

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Are you talking about me Moby?

[lapin d'or]

I wish Eat Soup was still going - I really liked that magazine.

Can I add Frances Bissell to the list of good writers - I still have loads of cuttings from when she was writing in the Times and the recipes always worked.

I just look at online editions of papers now - they never seem worth the 2 mile drive I have to undertake to get to a paper shop. I say this with regret because I used to enjoy 'reading' a weekend paper and always chose which one I bought by who was writing the food and gardening sections. I no longer find OHM inspiring or useful but maybe I would be more interested if I did not have the internet which provides far more of what I am looking for.

[Catriona]

That's as may be, but surely Tim's Nigella idea would please all-comers?

Si

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Interesting turn of phrase, Si!

It is sometimes a good magazine, I'm not saying I hate everything about it,. I just found that this particular issue (it even referred to itself as a comedy special) was particularly lightweight.

But since I'm obviously not its target audience then there's no point in carrying on flogging a dead horse - after all, I don't complain about the content of Hello...

[marlena spieler]

does anyone remember Taste magazine? (in its glory years that is, before it was bought and sold and slid downhill to a sad death).

[davebrown]

If we are getting nostalgic, how about A la Carte? I've never felt comfortable about my napkin arrangements since I came across it.

[BertieWooster]

Have to admit I get less irritated by the celebrity bias of OFM than with the Music monthly, still don't see what extra having David Walliams or someone interview a musician is bringing to The Observer.

At least OFM doesn't have Ricky Gervais interviewing Heston or summat. Yet.

In fact, get rid of Polly Vernon (have you ever met anyone who likes her articles?) and you've got the makings of a decent magazine.

[Richard_D]

In fact, get rid of Polly Vernon (have you ever met anyone who likes her articles?) and you've got the makings of a decent magazine.

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Well said!

I've read her articles and often wondered if they were a pisstake, but I've sadly come to the conclusion that they're not.

Drop Vernon and OFM would be a lot better. It's no worse than the Music or Sport mag and it's FREE (well, in a hidden in the cost of your sunday paper way).

The Observer are trying and full credit for that and to try to appeal to all their readers would be an impossible job. In a ideal world they would get Matthew Fort to join in with his food from round Britain column from the saturday Guardian.

Surely a much more deserving target of our constructive criticism would be a mag you've got pay for e.g. Good Food magazine (but hey that's another thread)

[Jon Tseng]

OFM: It is what it is.

Probably does need a revamp though. The format has been very similar from inception. The book-a-table-for-a-sleb is def example of a one line joke which has been running far to long. Although to be fair same could be said of the consistently excellent OSM.

As I've said before its caught trying to cater to too many consituencies: the man on the street, the parsimonious gurniad reader, the health-yuppee, the hard-core foodie, the socio-ethical-crusader.

Some conflict is necessary. I think the real beef from those on this board is that the hard-core foodie seems to come fairly low down the list of priorities

As I said, it is what it is. The beauty of the free market is that chattering classes inevitably get the product they deserve.

J

[offcentre]

doesn't it have license to be more geared to the hard-core foodie being a one of a range of specific free mags. I'm not that interested in music, sport or women so don't read these. Doesn't stop me buying the observer.

[Tim Hayward]

doesn't it have license to be more geared to the hard-core foodie being a one of a range of specific free mags. I'm not that interested in music, sport or women so don't read these. Doesn't stop me buying the observer.

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I hadn't really thought of the mag as part of that stable.

I'm sure they have the same issues though. I'm sure the sports mag hires vapid celebrity hacks to write 15 pages of expensively photographed "Me and my favourite team - a Soap Star Special".

I'm sure there's a section in the music mag where we get to see what's in Andy McNab's iPod

I'm sure the women's mag doesn't actually aim itself at 'serious' women as they expect them to be catered for online.

[Andy Lynes]

Is this more what you're thinking of?

link to Petit Propos Culinaire

Think I have a collection of articles and writings from this somewhere - found it interesting but ultimately too clever for me.

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There is, of course, PPC.

But between editions I'm still starved.

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PPC only survives by not paying its contributors - not something I'd be thrilled to see repeated elsewhere. Although of course the same is true for eGullet and The Daily Gullet.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Andy Lynes (log)

[Adam Balic]

Is this more what you're thinking of?

link to Petit Propos Culinaire

Think I have a collection of articles and writings from this somewhere - found it interesting but ultimately too clever for me.

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There is, of course, PPC.

But between editions I'm still starved.

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PPC only survives by not paying its contributors - not something I'd be thrilled to see repeated elsewhere.

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And also reflects the quality of the contents. Not stuffed full of fluff for restaurant hobbists for instance.

Edited November 22, 2006 by Adam Balic (log)

[Andy Lynes]

PPC only survives by not paying its contributors - not something I'd be thrilled to see repeated elsewhere.

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And also reflects the quality of the contents. Not stuffed full of fluff for restaurant hobbists for instance.

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You don't get quality if you don't pay for it. There is at least one article I can think of in PPC that was absolutely shocking.

[danlepard]

that's not true, Andy, the sad fact is there are many publications around the world that pay little or nothing and get excellence in return. It's only excellence and reputation that attracts the same. Nor is it true that one bad article in PPC, even if it occurred once an issue, is a sign that the slender budget attracts shocking writers.