French Food, Fat and Big Meals: Cultural

[Gifted Gourmet]

from International Herald Tribune

It turns out yet again that we have got the French all wrong. Take Sunday luncheon, which we imagine all lively chat and lovely food, adorably buttery grandparents, Papa expertly carving the roast, rosy-cheeked Maman with her casserole of steaming purée, children straight-backed and scraping their plates clean.

"You've cooked a nice meal and then they want to go to McDonald's." So now she just leaves the makings for sandwiches in the fridge and everyone helps himself.

Sophie gets no feedback for her culinary efforts but thinks it important for the family to have Sunday lunch together. So they still gather around the family dining table and eat takeaway Big Macs.

Quite an engaging article on reality of the French home .. blame it all on fast food ...

There has of course been a revolution in French eating habits. Even the cookbook, formerly handed down generation to generation, has become a consumer object available in bewildering profusion.

Est-ce que ceci peut vraiment être la vérité ?

[Ptipois]

Maybe you should take a look at the thread "French food, fat and big meals, etc." where the article has just been commented.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Maybe you should take a look at the thread "French food, fat and big meals, etc." where the article has just been commented.

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your post, Ptipois ...

T'would appear that timing is of the essence ... many thanks ...

[CarolineLD]

Bleak, for sure, but as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is the bleakness in this case.

That was what I thought from my experience of France (ie I meant to say that the author took a bleak view rather than that the outlook was truly so bleak). However, I didn't know if my view was coloured from mostly staying in a place some miles from the nearest fast food restaurant, so it's reassuring to know that your - far more informed - impression is the same. Thank you for a wonderfully detailed response.

It is funny to see his obesity scare approach coming so soon after the 'French women don't get fat' articles!

[John DePaula]

Wow… That article was really depressing. I don’t know, I don’t know. Maybe I just don’t want to take off my rose colored glasses, but this just doesn’t seem to be the France I experienced. Five years ago, I went to Bordeaux to take a language course. For the first time, I lived with a French family. It was a wonderful experience and everything that you’d expect: elaborately prepared meals, long in duration, where the wine flowed freely as well as the conversation and camaraderie. Many many evenings "à table" in the garden with the fragrance of flowers carried by a gentle breeze. Even if I’ve romanticized it I can tell you that no McDo was in sight, ever.

The same was true a few years later when I visited with another family in Dordogne. Each evening was filled with preparing food, eating, talking, friends, & family.

If things really are changing, then it’s heartbreaking that these traditions may be disappearing. No. Gimme those rose colored glasses back. I want things to stay just as they were.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Each evening was filled with preparing food, eating, talking, friends, & family. 

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I have to agree with you completely, John, on your wish that things remain unchanged. The France I remember was one of individual homes where cuisine, in and of itself, was a virtue and greatly venerated. Many a meal was prepared with loving care and attention to detail.

But, and I have to grudgingly admit, this was a world where no fast food existed. Comment triste ...

[John Talbott]

To all: I have merged the thread begun by Melissa into this one since both threads were discussing the same Blume article.

[Ptipois]

Bleak, for sure, but as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is the bleakness in this case.

That was what I thought from my experience of France (ie I meant to say that the author took a bleak view rather than that the outlook was truly so bleak). However, I didn't know if my view was coloured from mostly staying in a place some miles from the nearest fast food restaurant, so it's reassuring to know that your - far more informed - impression is the same. Thank you for a wonderfully detailed response.

It is funny to see his obesity scare approach coming so soon after the 'French women don't get fat' articles!

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Well, thank you! Please note that when I mentioned "bleakness in the eye of the beholder" I wasn't referring to you but to the author of the book, who makes the situation appear so hopeless, and then to the author of the article, who follows the view. To John: don't bother about the rosy glasses. Things are, indeed, not so bleak. It's only the art of depressing people with "serious" writing. (All my final judgement reserved towards the author of the book, since I haven't read it, I only know it through the article.)

[bleudauvergne]

I think that Ptipois once again gets it right on target, and have something to add. I have just read Blume's article on Kaufmann's book, and although I have not read this particular book I can say that Kauffman's specialty is the study of family dysfunction. This is not his first expose on this topic. It is another Kaufmann book, this time though the lens of food. It is a very specialized look at how things can break down, and not a statistically supported body of work that can be taken as evidence that the French are all this way.

That said, Blum's sensationalism of the topic with her opening paragraph is exactly what we are discussing here in this thread. Has anyone ever had the false impression that family dysfunction does not exist in France? How did we "get the French all wrong"? Sunday luncheon involving home cooked meals are not a rarity in France. Some people have done away with it, and we see from Kaufmann's study that some people let their anger or dissapointment in their family relations manifest in a complex way surrounding food. Not suprising since food plays a big role in the family here.

My experience foodwise with my French in-laws (my husband was born and raised in the midi, we are transplants to Lyon) has been similar to John's, i.e. family meals at the table, involving much home cooking. They do not watch TV while eating. Dinner is also at the table every night, even when it is his parents alone and it involves home cooked (by Brigitte) main course followed by salad, and then cheese. Every Sunday, Mamie comes to dinner at noon. The meal on Sunday lasts approximately 3 hours beginning to end. In our home, my husband needs to have his meal at the table, or things don't seem right. I have adopted his family customs as I have adopted this country. He and I have breakfast and dinner together. I do all of the cooking. He tells me when he likes something and when he feels a dish could use some improvement - I take it as an opportunity to improve my cooking skills, although I admit that it took some getting used to. I do take efforts to cook things he likes to eat, because I love him. This may not be normal, but it works for us. It seems our friends and neighbors have the same habits, i.e. meals at the table, etc.

When we lived in Los Angeles, we spent almost all of our time together trying to find French food items. We ate less cheese at that time because as Farid points out, it was prohibitively expensive in LA (Whole foods had the best affordable selection although there was a very nice fromagerie in Beverly Hills). My husband actually had his own jar of home raised levure and baked his own baguette because he could not stand the store bought bread. One of our primary reasons for coming to France was the food and the eating habits that the culture allows. We're crazy.

[Ptipois]

I think that Ptipois once again gets it right on target, and have something to add.  I have just read Blume's article on Kaufmann's book, and although I have not read this particular book I can say that Kauffman's specialty is the study of family dysfunction.  This is not his first expose on this topic.  It is  another Kaufmann book, this time though the lens of food.  It is a very specialized look at how things can break down, and not a statistically supported body of work that can be taken as evidence that the French are all this way.

I didn't know about Kaufmann's books, and because of this I was unfair to him. Indeed if his subject is the study of family dysfunction, the sensationalism wasn't on his side. And besides, studying this kind of dysfunction through food habits seems quite an interesting study indeed. Once again the weight bears on how the press chooses to present things.

My husband actually had his own jar of home raised levure and baked his own baguette because he could not stand the store bought bread.

Wow, what a husband. Lucky girl! I'm all the more impressed because if home baking is not difficult in se, making a good baguette at home is extremely difficult. I too used to have my bowl of levain in the fridge when I lived in NY, but I never dared to make baguette.

We're crazy. 

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No you're not. I'd call that sanity.

[bleudauvergne]

My husband actually had his own jar of home raised levure and baked his own baguette because he could not stand the store bought bread.

Wow, what a husband. Lucky girl! I'm all the more impressed because if home baking is not difficult in se, making a good baguette at home is extremely difficult. I too used to have my bowl of levain in the fridge when I lived in NY, but I never dared to make baguette.

He was quite scientific about it, and did a lot of research. Some days it was better than others. The hardest thing was getting the crust just right. He let it rise overnight and did some things with timing and spritzing water on a brick at the bottom of the oven halfway through baking that did quite nicely. I just dug out the old pan from the safe:

He just made it with water and flour and levain. It tasted very good. There are many happy memories in that pan. We don't use it here but I'll never let it go.

[DCMark]

MarkK, you stole my name. I did find your inital post funny, but I guess like all jokes, once over-analyzed they lose their humor?

You probably hit a raw nerve with us francophiles and francos (!)...that France is often (in the US) the subject of horribly mean jokes and stereotypes. France is one of the last 'groups' that can be mocked and insulted openly throughout American society, from the water-cooler to CNN. Its remarkable the comments that are made, which if one substitued Mexican, Japanese or Canadian for French, would get the commentator fired, sued or beat up!

That is why your comment probably got so many questions. Let me add my kudos to the admins of the France boards for keeping that bigotry out of EG.

Edited September 26, 2005 by DCMark (log)

[Ptipois]

You probably hit a raw nerve with us francophiles and francos (!)...that France is often (in the US) the subject of horribly mean jokes and stereotypes.

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No nerve was hit. Nothing was overanalyzed. It's just that the joke was unfunny.

PS: Markk I like you too but I didn't like your joke. Is that permitted?

[bleudauvergne]

American Hamburger jokes are not funny to Americans either, as Bux so astutely pointed out upthread.

[markk]

MarkK, you stole my name.  I did find your inital post funny, but I guess like all jokes, once over-analyzed they lose their humor?

PS: Markk I like you too but I didn't like your joke. Is that permitted?

In Markk's defense let me say that, for Americans --especially those who grew up before the era of nouvelle cusisine, cuisine minceur and the rise of French-Mediterranean cooking,

Mark,

My comment wasn't directed at you. I've always enjoyed your posts and I think you have an easy going sense of humour like me.

You guys are tough.

Way too harsh on Markk.

He's funny!

I like Markk

Markk is a warm person. He is very nice and genuine. Very considerate and not meaning to offend and caring enough to explain.

You guys (and gals) have warmed my cardiovascular circulation module with your acceptance of my attempt at earthly humor. I thank you all for the very kind comments you took the time to post!

I'm off on a trip back to my home planet, where my maternal unit has made her autumnal batch of life-sustaining nutrient concentracte (she has three times won the Titanium Ribbon for her recipe!) for me to bring back to tide me through the earth winter. And the warm glow of your many kind comments will sustain me through the trip, so I thank you again.

My paternal unit there is hard at work on a soporific agent which is lipid-independent in Earth's atmosphere and hopes to be able to introduce it here sometime soon.

~Markk

[John Talbott]

While some restos have a reputation for some supersized desserts, for example Rech's XL eclair or La Table Lauriston's baba geant, this week we've seen two other places deliver huge dessert portions; specifically La Maree Denfert's "baba for two or more" (more like 8 I'd venture) and Vaudeville's oeufs a la neige for two or three. Question: Are portion sizes increasing?, refuting my repeated statements that one reason the French don't look like superized Americans is sensible portion size.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Perhaps a dessert phenomenon? Rice pudding grandmere at Chez Michel was recently brought in a large (1.5-2L) serving dish to be served as you wish, and the baba at Astier was the size of half a batard, albeit dry as cardboard and accompanied by something that resembled hydromiel more than rum or rum syrup. Totally inedible. No calories wasted that night.

Actually, I remember that Roellinger served an enormous dessert (a large serving of hot orange mousse and an equally large bowl of chocolate mousse). I couldn't dent either.

[pennylane]

Question: Are portion sizes increasing?, refuting my repeated statements that one reason the French don't look like superized Americans is sensible portion size.

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It's only a matter of time...

[docsconz]

While I think portion size may be one of the reasons many Americans look supersized, I think lifestyle is another. The US is a much more automobile-centric country so people live a much more sedentary lifestyle in the US outside of certain metropolitan areas. For example, I have a much easier time eating what I want and as much as I want and controlling blood sugars in such places as NYC, San Francisco, Paris or anyplace where I walk a lot to get around than I do when I am driving everywhere. That is ironic given that one reason I moved to the part of the country I did was to be outside and exercise more!

[Ptipois]

A dessert brought to the table in one serving but meant to be shared between two, three or four is not a larger portion than the same dessert already shared between two, three or four plates and brought to the table and used to be the general rule before Nouvelle Cuisine and service à l'assiette. After all, that kind of serving is still the rule of home and bourgeois cooking. As for the large dish of riz au lait brought to the table for everyone to dig in, it is also a traditional way of serving and used to be common in bistrots and country restaurants. It is the principle of "saladiers lyonnais" and is part of the Lyonnais service for appetizers and desserts. For the record, that is how desserts were served at the neo-Lyonnais bistrot "Chez Leni" back in the '70s, a bistrot that IMO was the main inspiration for the Parisian bistrot craze in the 80s and 90s. This is all a completely different matter than the American style of portioning and its possible presence in France.

If signs that the French are going to get increasingly obese are to be searched in France, I do not think you will find them in the kind of restaurants that are commented here. Rather take a stroll in the suburbs (not Neuilly or Le Vésinet) and particularly at the contents of the supermarket carts on Saturday afternoons; at the fast-food/kebab/industrial food industry, at the disappearing of decent popular and lower-middle-class restaurants and the impoverishment of the national diet in general for the less affluent.

It is unlikely that France will "become American" but some French people will, in termes of size. And the results of the process are already visible in children and teenagers. But, of course, not within the Périphérique limits.

[John Talbott]

I suspect I was not sufficiently precise in my first post; I was pondering whether or not there was a shift towards larger portion sizes, a la Americain, since this week we had observed several desserts that were listed for one but could easily feed two or three. This is different from, say, the dish of ris au lait at l'Ebauchoir, where one helps oneself, or equally, the terrine at so many bistros, Le Regalade springs to mind, or herring, etc.

I agree with Doc that portion size is not the sole contributor to American supersizes and certainly that lifestyle, maternal health (the Barker phenomenon) and genes (the anti-Barkerists) are important; but I am always taken aback when ordering my first meal back in the States by (1) the size of portions and the (2) impossibility (for me at least) of ordering or consuming three courses, as one does routinely in France.

Again, in line with Doc's comments, I noticed or it suddenly struck me this morning when out on my run (or limp), how while there are lots of new Vélib’s, there are now also at least four new corners on my route full of scooters and motos where in years past, there were just a few bikes.

[Ptipois]

I see. Well I think there has always been restaurants where serving large sizes (mostly of dessert dishes) was a way of asserting their difference from more upscale but less generous places. A sentence that is often heard in French about "restaurants gastronomiques" is that "c'est bien mais y a rien dans l'assiette" (it's nice but there is nothing on the plates), which is not really true because many plates of a little something amount to something very big indeed, but at least that's what it's reputed to be. Besides, it is true of some restaurants. That is a tendency that has been going on for some time now.

There may be a recent trend, in some isolated cases, to increase dessert portions, as a way to show off (to easily impressed French or foreign diners), but I haven't been in the condition to notice it. What I am pretty sure of is that, for now, generally speaking, there is no particular increase in serving portions.

[pennylane]

Also, I am not familiar with the place you mentioned, but I do know that even if portion sizes in France do begin to approach those in America, one certainly can't say the same thing about prices. For instance most of my co-workers can't afford to go out to eat more than once in a blue moon. When they do they tend to seek out places known for large servings at relatively low cost, like Pasta Papa and the like. And in those places I can assure you that portion sizes are shrinking, not expanding.

[pierre45]

I don't think that there is a trend in france to increase dessert portions.

The explanation as to why in some restaurants you do encounter large portions is very well explained by Ptipois.

[Felice]

On my first trip back to the States in 4 years I took a picture of my towering caesar salad because it seemed too large to be true. I had forgotten how enormous portions could be in comparison to France and couldn' believe that so much salad was for one person. I can't really imagine France adopting the supersize or all-you-can-eat mentality.