Philly "Tourist Food"

percyn · July 2, 2005

OK,

I have some relatives coming to visit Philly for a day. While I would have liked them to visit StudioKitchen, Stripped Bass, Le Bec Fin, etc, it is not practical when you are running all over town in 1 day.

Other than the typical Pat & Genos tourist traps, what would you recommend which would give our guest a true sense of Philadelphia and allow them to experience its great cusine?

NulloModo · July 2, 2005

Take them to Tony DeLuc's for a roast pork sandwhich, the Italian Market for a great red gravey dinner, and, well, whatever your favorite cheesesteak place is.

Haute cuisine is the same in NYC, Chicago, Philly, or LA. If you want a taste of the local flavor you eat where the blue collar crowd eats.

rlibkind · July 2, 2005

Take them to Tony DeLuc's for a roast pork sandwhich
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Methinks your confusbining Tommy DiNic's at the Reading Terminal Market and Tony Luke's on Oregon right by I-95. In either case, both make great Pork sandwiches.

NulloModo · July 2, 2005

Take them to Tony DeLuc's for a roast pork sandwhich
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Methinks your confusbining Tommy DiNic's at the Reading Terminal Market and Tony Luke's on Oregon right by I-95. In either case, both make great Pork sandwiches.
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Err, yeah, that is what I meant.

sockii · July 6, 2005

I second (or third?) the roast pork sandwich at DiNic's. Mmmmmm.

Beyond that I'd say in general an eating binge through Reading Terminal would be my pick for a truly Philly experience...with all of the choices there's plenty there plus great selections to take home and sample later.

jamiemaw · July 6, 2005

OK,
I have some relatives coming to visit Philly for a day. While I would have liked them to visit StudioKitchen, Stripped Bass, Le Bec Fin, etc, it is not practical when you are running all over town in 1 day.
Other than the typical Pat & Genos tourist traps, what would you recommend which would give our guest a true sense of Philadelphia and allow them to experience its great cusine?
←

Depending on just how much you dislike them, any scrapple-teria will do, or if you're really in a pinch, a Wawa brings on hysterical crying that reminds of how the chainlet earned its name. Of course scrapple induces acid reflux so intense that they might think a passing F-16 has mistaken their mouths for Taliban caves. This combo should pretty much guarantee that you will never see them again, and that their daughters will never marry.

Edited July 6, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

Holly Moore · July 6, 2005

Depending on just how much you dislike them, any scrapple-teria will do, or if you're really in a pinch, a Wawa brings on hysterical crying that reminds of how the chailet earned its name. Of course scrapple induces acid reflux so intense that they might think a passing F-16 has mistaken their mouths for Taliban caves. This should pretty much guarantee that you will never see them again, and that their daughters will never marry.
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I can see someone without much food experience holding such an uninformed opinion of scrapple. It is surprising to hear the same from food professional, even a mere "food editor." :smile:

In Philadelphia one can find excellent scrapple in all manner of restaurant - ranging from South Philadelphia's Melrose Diner to the five star Four Seasons hotel. Most places in Center City Philadelphia and South Philadelphia that make the effort to serve scrapple prepare it quite well. Fried crisp on the outside, soft inside - a peppery, spicy taste that works perfectly with fried eggs.

Edited July 6, 2005 by Holly Moore (log)

Holly Moore · July 6, 2005

OK,
I have some relatives coming to visit Philly for a day. While I would have liked them to visit StudioKitchen, Stripped Bass, Le Bec Fin, etc, it is not practical when you are running all over town in 1 day.
Other than the typical Pat & Genos tourist traps, what would you recommend which would give our guest a true sense of Philadelphia and allow them to experience its great cusine?
←

Gotta start off saying that neither Pat's nor Geno's are tourist traps. Most folks standing in line at either place grew up on cheesesteaks and know of what they eat. Dalessandro's and especially Steve's do better. But Pat's and Geno's both serve a worthy steak. And no one beats Pat's when it comes to South Philly attitude.

"Great cuisne" is in the eye of the beholder. But here's the schedule I'd follow:

Breakfast around the counter at the Melrose Dinner. Sides of scrapple for all.

Onto the Italian Market for a walk through and some pepperoni bread and/or tomato pie from Sarcone's bakery. To tide you over until lunch, a hoagie from either Chickie's Deli or Sarcone's Deli.

Then the Reading Terminal Market - another walk through and time for lunch. Fisher's pretzels for apps, followed by the aforementioned Tony DiNic's roast pork sandwich with greens and aged provolone. For dessert a scoop of Bassets Ice Cream - I'm partial to butterscotch swirl.

Dinner - Ralph's for South Philly Italian. Or Victor's Cafe for the same with the occasional waiter/tenor belting out an aria.

Come midnight if they're still hungry, Pat's or Gino's for a whiz, with. Or, if it's the weekend, Tony Luke's.

Edited July 6, 2005 by Holly Moore (log)

jamiemaw · July 6, 2005

Depending on just how much you dislike them, any scrapple-teria will do, or if you're really in a pinch, a Wawa brings on hysterical crying that reminds of how the chailet earned its name. Of course scrapple induces acid reflux so intense that they might think a passing F-16 has mistaken their mouths for Taliban caves. This should pretty much guarantee that you will never see them again, and that their daughters will never marry.
←
I can see someone without much food experience holding such an uninformed opinion of scrapple. It is surprising to hear the same from food professional, even a mere "food editor."
In Philadelphia one can find excellent scrapple in all manner of restaurant - ranging from South Philadelphia's Melrose Diner to the five star Four Seasons hotel. Most places in Center City Philadelphia and South Philadelphia that make the effort to serve scrapple prepare it quite well. Fried crisp on the outside, soft inside - a peppery, spicy taste that works perfectly with fried eggs.
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Holly,

When in Philadelphia I almost always stay at The Four Seasons—not just because I'm a Canadian loyalist, and despite the fact that you can order scrapple in the Fountain Room. You see for me, scrapple is just too Main Line, I suppose in both senses of the phrase. :smile:

Seriously though, I’ve been told that the best scrapple—harkening both entomologically and culinarily from 'scraps' of course—is best made from scraped pig’s head. No problem there. Farmboy Pennsylvania Dutch meets hyper-caloric grease-brick. Fine. But would I sully the sheets of the Four Seasons after ingestion? Highly unlikely.

No, my real beef with scrapple is that all the really good stuff, like the brains, are usually removed on killing day and served to preferred customers folded into shirred eggs. Wawa.

My other problem with scrapple is that it’s simply not the highest and best use of these precincts of the animal—that’s why God invented luncheon meats. Besides (and you really can’t be sure if it’s the cornmeal, or the imputed, wooden-spoon smell of mothbally thrift), but scrapple usually comes off as surly as a Lancaster bartender.

Dinner - Ralph's for South Philly Italian.

Now on Ralph’s we can agree—the waiters are as timeworn as the floors, raspy and rude (well, rudish) to boot, the clams casino at the very apeothesis of their genre. And the roast pepper and anchovy salad, and platters of spaghetti and meatballs are almost as hugely satisfying as they are merely huge. In fact Ralph’s might just be the zenith of full-throttled red sauce eating and, let it be said, has about as much in common with Italian dining as Bobby Clark.

Jamie

PS--Wasn't trying to pick a scrap. :biggrin: In fact, next time in town, why don't you show me how it's done. You bring the F-16, I'll bring the Taliban cave.

Edited July 6, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

Mummer · July 6, 2005

While they do have a funny name, Wawa stores are a class act.

They're clean, the ATM is free, gas is cheap(er,) the food is good to very good and the coffee is better.

When I pour a Wawa coffee, I don't need a special vocabulary for cup size (it's not lingerie) and I know how much room to leave for cream. Then the lid fits; it really pisses me off to wear a venti.

Wawa is the Philly thing I miss most when travelling.

mrbigjas · July 6, 2005

While they do have a funny name, Wawa stores are a class act.
They're clean, the ATM is free, gas is cheap(er,) the food is good to very good and the coffee is better.

don't forget how their cash registers make video game noises!

wawa coffee is great. i drink la colombe or la cigale coffee most mornings because they're on my route to work. but sometimes, if i'm driving rather than walking to work, i stop at a wawa instead--and every time i'm taken aback yet again at how good their coffee is. it doesn't at all suffer from the starbucks-induced overroasting trend (even the dark roast), it's round, mellow, and just damn good.

holly, if someone followed that agenda you posted, i would seriously bow down in awe at their eating prowess. that's a vast quantity of food. i would forgo the butterscotch swirl though--bassett's peach is still the epitome of the ice cream maker's art IMO.

serpentine · July 6, 2005

the food is good to very good and the coffee is better.

I'm a Wawa fan. And love their coffee. I'll head there for a quick breakfast long before I darken the drive-thru of any fast food joint, and their hoagies are some fantastically reliable eats from lunchtime to late-night. However, I find the hot sandwiches disappointing. Some of them profoundly so. Is it just me?

Increasingly, I don't have to do without when travelling, what with their expansion into MD/VA. I just wish there were more Wawas in the city.

Andrew Fenton · July 6, 2005

the ATM is free

Or better than free: last time I used a Wawa ATM it gave me a coupon for a buck off a hoagie. Sweet!

Andrew Fenton · July 6, 2005

and their hoagies are some fantastically reliable eats from lunchtime to late-night. However, I find the hot sandwiches disappointing. Some of them profoundly so. Is it just me?

Never tried the hot sandwiches, but it seems to me I've heard that the roast pork is at least okay. What scares me a little are the rice bowls. Those look... unappealing. But I like the cold hoagies just fine.

Increasingly, I don't have to do without when travelling, what with their expansion into MD/VA. I just wish there were more Wawas in the city.

Word to that.

philadining · July 6, 2005

I like Wawa as much as the next guy, and although I don't love their coffee, I drink it almost every day. Their hot roast pork sandwich is not worth a special trip, but it sure beats a fast-food hamburger, especially at 3 am. (And you're right Andrew, their "bowls" are pretty bleak...)

However, I would think things have gotten pretty desperate if one resorts to taking out-of-town guests to Wawa for a meal.

I really like Holly's itinerary, or at least as much of it as a mere mortal can a manage to eat!

I've found that visitors almost always like Ralph's. Although simple, hearty Italian food isn't exactly rare around the country, it's done very well at Ralph's, and you get a distinctly Philly vibe along with the food, even if that vibe includes never getting that meatball you ordered, and reminded them about 3 times... It's hard, but try to get them to stick to the basic stuff, the fancy, expensive specials are rarely all that thrilling, while a simple bowl of gnocchi is.

There are public markets in many cities, but a stroll through the RTM or the Italian market certainly does convey a sense of Phillyness, and there's good food to be had, so both of those are good choices.

And although there's room for debate about whether the food always stands up to the hype, my guests have always been thrilled with the flashy Steven Starr restaurants. Unless they are from a major metropolis, or are jaded jet-setters, a little theater with the food leaves a strong impression. There aren't a lot of places like Pod. Folks from overseas have enjoyed the homey "American" food at Jones. Tangerine always impresses. Going to Morimoto is a real event. And I'll say it again and duck, but somehow I keep getting good food at those places. I even occasionally go to those spots just to eat, not to show off! Order carefully and you'll have a good time.

And if your relatives are foodies, the small BYOB thing is a really charming aspect of our scene here, and often leaves folks wishing they lived in Philly.

I don't think you can go too wrong just taking them to some of your favorite places. Doing that will almost certainly communicate a sense of Philly, and give them fond memories of their visit. Please tell us what you do, and how it goes over!

Edited July 6, 2005 by philadining (log)

lancastermike · July 6, 2005

scrapple usually comes off as surly as a Lancaster bartender.

Hey, I was a Lancaster bartender for 20 years and never surly. Sort of an uncalled for shot. Also, I love scrapple and Holly is more than right about it. His tourist suggestions are also great. I took some of my friends to Ralph's and they loved it.

herbacidal · July 6, 2005

the food is good to very good and the coffee is better.
I'm a Wawa fan. And love their coffee. I'll head there for a quick breakfast long before I darken the drive-thru of any fast food joint, and their hoagies are some fantastically reliable eats from lunchtime to late-night. However, I find the hot sandwiches disappointing. Some of them profoundly so. Is it just me?
Increasingly, I don't have to do without when travelling, what with their expansion into MD/VA. I just wish there were more Wawas in the city.
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There definitely should be more Wawas around, including downtown. But from a business standpoint, I can see why they don't have more. Too many other minimarts around. They've been closing their less profitable locations around the area already, probably fueling their expansion into MD . VA and parts beyond.

I love their coffee too. I do think their hot sandwiches are respectable. Their meatball was solid, the last time I ate it having been years ago. Although I do prefer the McD's breakfast despite liking their coffee less.

Not so much a fan of their hoagies, although I'm not so much a fan of hoagies. My feeling now is if I do have to have one, it should be nothing less than a Primo's.

jamiemaw · July 7, 2005

scrapple usually comes off as surly as a Lancaster bartender.
Hey, I was a Lancaster bartender for 20 years and never surly. Sort of an uncalled for shot. Also, I love scrapple and Holly is more than right about it. His tourist suggestions are also great. I took some of my friends to Ralph's and they loved it.
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I should have been more specific. There was a bartender at the American Bar and Grill who was (lengendarily) a real beverage Nazi. He was finally let go. The last thing you'd get from him was an uncalled for shot. :biggrin:

Edited July 8, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

percyn · July 8, 2005

After all this wonderful advice, I feel obligated to report back...so here goes...

Unfortunately, most of the discussion and advice started pouring in while we were in transit on our way into Philly, so I have some better tips for next time.

We started at the Reading Terminal around 11:30am. I wanted them to try the roast pork sandwich, but my guest said they were not ready for lunch yet so we got a coffee and vowed to return back later. So we wander around the market for a bit and marveled at the bounty. I did get that chicken-on-a-stick thingy in a sweet and spicy sauce from the Thai place..it is one of my favorites, but alas I do not recall its proper name.

We then went with the kids to the Constitution center and Independence hall. Sometime around 1:30pm they started craving for a cheesesteak, so we went to Geno's and Pat's to get these babies:

My guests seemed to prefer the "Cheesy flavor" of Genos. I ate them both and enjoyed each. I did like the hot pepper bin outside Genos and munched on a few.

By the time we were done it was around 3:30pm and everyone was getting tired, so we broke our promise of returning to RTM. Next time I will not let them leave without tasting a roast pork sandwich (after all, I want to try one too :raz: )

Thanks again for all the advice.

Percy

MarketStEl · July 10, 2005

Increasingly, I don't have to do without when travelling, what with their expansion into MD/VA. I just wish there were more Wawas in the city.
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There definitely should be more Wawas around, including downtown. But from a business standpoint, I can see why they don't have more. Too many other minimarts around. They've been closing their less profitable locations around the area already, probably fueling their expansion into MD . VA and parts beyond.

There used to be more Wawas in and around Center City. I can recall at least six of them that were either closed or sold to other operators over the two decades I've lived in Wash West:

--12th and Walnut (closest to where I live now; this is now an indie, the Pac a Deli)

--Juniper and Spruce (in Center City One; this is now a Convenient Food Mart)

--27th and Lombard (closed and abandoned)

--7th and Fitzwater (approximate location; closed and abandoned)

--16th and Walnut (the "Wawa Express Food Court," which sold no groceries; from what I heard, the building owner jacked up the rent. A new Cole-Haan shoe store now fills this space)

--Broad and Race (this became an indie; it is now a Quiznos Sub franchise)

The Center City locations still open that I know of are:

--11th and Arch (perhaps ironically given this topic, just down the block from the Reading Terminal Market)

--10th and Walnut (street floor of a Jefferson dorm)

I understand that the company is as concerned about safety as it is profitability and will close locations in what it deems unsafe areas.

Since all Wawa stores are company-owned -- unusual for convenience stores, which are more typically franchised -- Wawa Inc. can implement effective quality control, which extends to the decision to continue in business at a given site, chainwide. It strikes me that the near-fanatical devotion of its customers in its core market is a sign that they do an exceptional job of maintaining their quality standards.

I love their coffee too. I do think their hot sandwiches are respectable. Their meatball was solid, the last time I ate it having been years ago. Although I do prefer the McD's breakfast despite liking their coffee less.
Not so much a fan of their hoagies, although I'm not so much a fan of hoagies. My feeling now is if I do have to have one, it should be nothing less than a Primo's.
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Well, if one must have standards, at least keep them high. I find Wawa hoagies to be more than acceptable, and ordered many a sandwich from the Wawa at the base of Graduate Tower A ('scuse me, Sansom Place East) at Penn when I worked in the communications office on the second floor of the same building. Where I live now, I have a surefeit of good hoagies (Planet Hoagie, Pac a Deli, Primo's) much closer to me than the local Wawa, so that buck-off coupon I got the other day is gathering dust in my wallet.

I would love to know what sort of experience you had, jamiemaw, that soured you on Wawa.

NulloModo · July 10, 2005

Well, if one must have standards, at least keep them high. I find Wawa hoagies to be more than acceptable, and ordered many a sandwich from the Wawa at the base of Graduate Tower A ('scuse me, Sansom Place East) at Penn when I worked in the communications office on the second floor of the same building. Where I live now, I have a surefeit of good hoagies (Planet Hoagie, Pac a Deli, Primo's) much closer to me than the local Wawa, so that buck-off coupon I got the other day is gathering dust in my wallet.
I would love to know what sort of experience you had, jamiemaw, that soured you on Wawa.
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Ah, to me, the purest form of Wawa hoagie enjoyment is as follows -

2 or 3am, turkey sub with extra everything (especially the hot peppers and pickles), eaten in your or one of your best friends cars (trying not to drive off the road or spill it on the seats of course), whilst headed to the AC expressway with spontaneous dreams of making the same drive back in a Bentley in one's head. Of course, inevitably, one will enjoy a similar sandwhich, 6 to 12 hours later, on the same road back, in the same civic/protege/corolla in which you left, but with a wallet several hundred dollars lighter, and seemingly stuffed with extra crow instead of hot peppers... wondering why you didn't all just hang out in the wawa parking lot in the middle of the night instead.

rockhopper · July 10, 2005

Wawa hoagies are OK. I wouldn't go out of my way for one because of the bread but I'd eat one. They do not follow the insulting naming practices of places like planet hoagie. A turkey is a turkey, a roast beef is a roast beef and an italian is an italian.

My brother in law is in charge of their ad campaigns. I suggested "Wawa hoagies: they don't suck" but for some reason they didn't go for that. :)

BTW the roast pork isn't what you'd get from Tony Luke's. It's more chunky/stringy than sliced. And sharp provolove/greens are nowhere in sight. But the roasted peppers aren't bad on it.

monavano · July 10, 2005

All of you who diss the WaWa hoagies have TOO MANY WAWA's to pick from............and I'm jealous :biggrin: What I wouldn't give to have one near me in NoVa!! I miss being able to just run into one and get a junior whenever the mood strikes.

As to Philly tourist food, I'd also throw in there City Tavern. www.citytavern.com

It's no Stephen Starr restaurant, but is IS oh so Philadelphia. Charming.

Edited July 10, 2005 by monavano (log)

Holly Moore · July 10, 2005

...
We started at the Reading Terminal around 11:30am. I wanted them to try the roast pork sandwich, but my guest said they were not ready for lunch yet so we got a coffee and vowed to return back later.
...
By the time we were done it was around 3:30pm and everyone was getting tired, so we broke our promise of returning to RTM. Next time I will not let them leave without tasting a roast pork sandwich (after all, I want to try one too )
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I hesitate to speak too strongly against your guest, but were it me and my guest was not hungry for a DiNic's roast pork sandwich at any hour, guest and I would soom find ourselves hopelessly separated in the crowds. :smile:

Thanks for reporting back.

jamiemaw · July 10, 2005

I would love to know what sort of experience you had, jamiemaw, that soured you on Wawa.

It wasn't the Canada Goose that first drew me in to a Wawa (which actually means Canada Goose in a local indigenous dialect and which we cheerfully export to you specifically to befoul your lawns), it was my enthusiastic Pennsylvanian colleaugue offering up 'a local tradition.'

No, my problem with Wawa is simply this: It was a wasted meal, right in the vortex of superior sandwich opportunities. In fact I would offer that Philadelphia is the epicentre of North American sandwich making, many of which are mentioned in this thread and on Holly's excellent web site.

I ordered as instructed--"an Italian"--one of the 35 million hoagies that Wawa sells every year. It was a construct of average, deli-case quality meats. The "homestyle" roast beef did not replicate anything that I would serve in my home. The buns were proforma for a chain--I suppose I expected something more upper crust as we were verging on Grace Kelly territory. I also found the ATM-like computerized ordering process rather off-putting (and I was sober), seeing as the sandwich-maker was two feet away.

So, in short, why Wawa when you can find much better at DiNic, John's, Sarcone's, et al? In fact, as I type this message, I am looking fondly at a picture of us wolfing cheese steaks in South Philly last summer. A character served them to us, another thing I didn't find at the Wawa commisary.

Car food is an interesting topic, seeing as North America revolves around them. I believe that's why Italian and German cars, while wondrously engineered, can't seem to get the drink holder thing right.

My colleague did not redeem himself at dinner. He took us to the Guard House in Gladwyne. Although the martinis were sturdy, the food approached the nadir of Ike and Mamie-era country club menus; my lamb chops had the unmistakeable mealiness of steam. Again, a wasted opportunity--Philadelphia is rife with wonderful restaurants and may just be the most undersung dining city on the continent. Even if business didn't take me there fairly frequently, I'd go just to admire the buildings and the food. Compared to New York, I like its relatively more intimate size and feel. In fact, I'd go so far as to parrot W.C. Fields.

Now, if only you had a hockey team . . .

Edited July 10, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

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