Enjoying food while losing weight

[Ron Johnson]

Franklanguage:

Please forgive me if I do not put too much credence in your source for these anti-dairy claims, when it is called milksucks.com.  Hardly a name that inspires confidence or an image of objectivity.

[stellabella]

Let's not laugh at people who ask reasonable questions, and then offer reasonable advice in turn. That's a no-win situation.

I apologize for being flippant - but I did use a smiley! As a matter of fact, I was put on a diet - by a doctor who happened to be obese himself - at the age of ten, and another at eleven, and by the time I was out of my teens I decided I was through with diets.

I do agree with your comments on fiber. Not so sure on the dairy stuff, I'd love to see some links as well.

Well, I have posted Not-milk several times on eGullet. There is also Milk Sucks!, which includes its own links  page. (Hey, folks: I don't make this stuff up.)

We humans are designed to be able to handle a wide variety of foods from many plant and animal sources. It's one of the beautiful things about being human that we can choose to be omnivorous or vegetarian, among a million other dietary choices, depending on economics, biome, cultural experiences, beliefs, or whims. Humans exist healthily with and without a wide variety of foods. I don't believe in villifying any of them, even though I have historically eschewed many broad categories of food.

I also try to be diplomatic, and I'm well aware that my views are unpopular here. It is true that a group of humans in the Andes once were forced by circumstances to eat their frozen dead comrades just to survive, but in a world where we are often able to choose what we eat we can sometimes make educated choices. The Physicians' Committee for Responsible Medicine has a page entitled "Shoudln't I drink milk?" which puts a lot of commonly-held beliefs to rest.

I am also the first to admit that dairy products are enjoyable, even addictive. Cheese is undeniably delicious, and most people are willing to put up with the consequences - possible discomfort or worse - of eating it. Cheese, after all, contains casomorphin, which is an opioid substance. When I say it causes respiratory distress, I mean that it causes everyone to produce varying amounts of mucus. This is established; people of Nordic backgrounds tend to metabolize dairy products better than many other ethnic/racial groups, and people of African ancestry can't metabolize dairy at all, which makes it positively criminal for the milk-mustache ads to target African-Americans the way they do. ("Hey, folks, I don't make this stuff up.")

But I digress. I hope I've provided enough links.

those who drank three glasses of milk per day had more fractures than those who rarely drank milk.14

i copied and pasted this from a harvard study cited  on one of the sites franklanguage mentions.  as an amateur social scientist, i tend to read a statement like this as omitting other concurrent risky behaviors among milk-drinkers

the study goes on to add that other factors besides calcium deficiency actually put women at greater risk for developing osteoporosis: genetics, smoking, and sedentary lifesyle.

which takes me back to everyone else's primary point, jaybee:  whatever approach you adopt towards weightloss, it has to be based on a lifestyle change that includes regular exercise--and if you are female, and for some reason i think you are [?]--you MUST perfrom weight-bearing exercise regularly to stave off osteoporosis, which is actullay inevitable, to a degree--women who are active and strong can reduce bone loss.

drink milk, eat steak, but MOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hurray!  good luck!

[Malawry]

I also try to be diplomatic, and I'm well aware that my views are unpopular here. It is true that a group of humans in the Andes once were forced by circumstances to eat their frozen dead comrades just to survive, but in a world where we are often able to choose what we eat we can sometimes make educated choices.

I don't mind unpopular views. Many of my views are unpopular. And I don't mind the views you personally have presented either.   I just don't like to see people feeling attacked, is all. I appreciate that you didn't intend to come across as doing so.

I like the idea of making educated dietary choices. I try to make my own food choices in an educated manner. This is intentional for me in terms of food origin (and is why I do most of my food shopping at a natural foods co-op and the farm market in summer) and employee treatment (again, the co-op, plus the little independent supermarket where I purchase mainstream groceries) and of course nutritional content (hence my mostly meatless, fiber-rich ways). These things are almost as important to me as taste. Taste, however, trumps everything else in my book.

Taste can be engineered to appreciate things that are better for us, despite our natural proclivities for the sweet and fatty (and therefore most compactly caloric). I've engineered my own tastes for reasons including my personal politics, my interest in eating healthfully, and my interest in eating a diverse diet. Jaybee can do the same thing, as one possible strategy for losing weight.

Thanks for the links, btw. Back to your regularly scheduled topic...

[stellabella]

Taste can be engineered to appreciate things that are better for us, despite our natural proclivities for the sweet and fatty (and therefore most compactly caloric).

mal,

back in the day i caught an episode of oprah during her second round of wieght loss--she was insisting to her audience that once you make the lifestyle changes completely, you not only lose some of the cravings, but certain overly sweet fatty foods become DISTASTEFUL--she gave the example of gagging on a sandwich made with buttered bread.  somehow i doubt you and i could ever gag on a slice of buttered bread    BUT  i do agree with her [and YOU] that healthful eating tastes great.  do you--does anyone else agree--i can't speak from my own experiences here as i have never been a meat & potatoes person--that jaybee's cravings will decrease as she becomes more active, or is it necessary to actually go through some period of withdrawal?

i have experienced withdrawal only once--when i quit coffee.  it was terrible.  perhaps not as severe as kicking heroin :confused: , for example, but pretty bad.  i mean i really struggled for about a month--the smell of my husband's coffee made me wild.  but then after about three months my cravings were gone.  i found that what i really wanted was a hot morning bev and a little caffeine, and tea was a great replacement.

one final thought, jaybee--walking.  do you live in a place where you can take pleasant walks?  start walking 30-45 minutes 3-4 times a week--not fast but brisk, steady pace--and you'll see some pounds slip off WITHOUT any dietary changes.

[Rosie]

We eat out alot so and keeping the scale on an acceptable number is always a challenge. But what helps is that I walk everyday and watch what I eat for breakfast and lunch. Also, I drink at least one glass of water with each meal and water between meals. When we eat at home we eat simply. A small piece of protein, salad and vegetables. No carbs. I eat and drink whatever I want when we dine out. This has worked for me. At home I use fresh lemon juice on my salad rather than dressing and I have given up bagels and cream cheese. I'll eat a half of a muffin or bagel with nothing on it for breakfast. If I am hungry between meals I reach for a piece of fruit. Of course I cheat now and then but knowing that I will eat what I want when we dine out makes it easier for me to restrict certain foods at home.

[Malawry]

Interesting question, Stella. (Your questions are always interesting!) I was a huge red meat fan as a child, and would barely pick at fowl or fish. My diet expanded rapidly during my adolescence, but then I quashed it by becoming a lacto-ovo vegetarian when I started college. It took me a while to stop craving meat and potatoes. (Well, I never stopped craving (or indulging in!) potatoes.) When I stopped craving meat I think it was mostly because I knew how I'd feel if I ate a big steak. Somewhat logy, and after my vegetarianism went from months into years of habit I realized it might possibly make me sick. I didn't really miss meat, I just missed the variety it represented in my life sometimes.

I don't know if you'd stop craving it if you simply cut back your intake. I suspect probably not. But you might be less likely to want to polish off a huge tenderloin in a single sitting. You might be more likely to feel the impact of such a meal if you've made meat a small-portion adjunct to meals. I think that craving has more to do with dietary choice than with activity level. My high activity level has had minimal impact on my desire to eat a sandwich with butter (yum!). And I know that when I've fallen off the wagon dietarilly, I go for the same fatty/sweet foods repeatedly. Once I've had them I just want them more.

[jaybee]

one final thought, jaybee--walking.  do you live in a place where you can take pleasant walks?  start walking 30-45 minutes 3-4 times a week--not fast but brisk, steady pace--and you'll see some pounds slip off WITHOUT any dietary changes.

Having just returned from Lunch with other eGulletiers at Peter Lugers, I'm not sure I should be talking about weight control just now,   but I live in mid-Manhattan, near Central Park.  Ideal territory for walking.  Tuesday I decided to take a one hour walk three or four times a week, about as long as it takes me to smoke a double corona seegar.  I started this regimine on Tuesday.

Today, I climbed about twenty flights of stairs between four subway lines to get home from Peter Lugers, instead of rolling into a cab.  Now I feel virtuous!  I did eat in moderation. No butter, one spoonful of LXT's huge ice cream sundae, one onion roll, and (for me) a modest amount of meat and just a couple of frites.  Mmmnn, is that steak good.  I did get to chew on a bone.  arf arf.

[JSD]

For weight loss, I suggest reading Picture Perfect Weight Loss by Shapiro.  It shows pictures of yummy stuff like bagels with cream cheese, and possible alternatives, which is a lot of stuff because how many calories bagels with cream cheese contain.  It's an eye opener, because more than one person told me a bagel had the same number of calories as a slice of bread, which it doesn't (more like 4 times as much).

[Ron Johnson]

Jaybee, you are on the right track.  Now just make it part of your routine.  Don't try to lose more than a pound or two per week, and the weight that you lose will not return.  6 months from now you could be 30 lbs lighter. Good luck!

[jaybee]

Ron, thanks for the encouragment.  Dinner last night at City Hall was a bit excessive, so the weekend will be much more abstemious!  The mouth giveth and the mouth taketh away.

[knews9]

this is a great thread and, jaybee (and others) most of the great advice has been given.  i have used weight watchers (online because i couldn't stand the meetings) and found that very helpful.  but i also couldn't maintain it (ended up gaining back 5 of the 10 pounds i lost).  i began practicing yoga--nothing serious, once a week--and agree that it has been instrumental in helping me appreciate my body in its form and come up with some realistic goals (my frame and metabolism will not support the weight i'd love to be...) .  that has also been really instrumental in getting me feeling good--realistic goals and small steps.  think about what you want to do today or this week or month, break down those 25 pounds into small bites (ha ha).  

i do work out 6 days a week, extended cardio sessions (60 mins 2x/week and 45 mins 2x/week) because that's what i've discovered works for me.  and weights--which, like yoga, has helped me appreciate my body.  i was born premature, with various birth defects, had open heart surgery at 4; ran a marathon at 25. i try to focus on these and other accomplishments rather than my imperfections.  that said, losing weight and being more active should be pursued both to improve your heath AND so you can feel good (not just healthy, but attractive, sexy, whatever).  

the one thing that others have mentioned that hasn't worked for me is taking it easy during the week and being free on the weekends. i, too, live in NY and opportunities for eating out are rampant.  i try to deal with this in two ways (also goes to the joy i find in cooking):  i try to cook yummy, full meals at home (which i usually prefer to going out anyway) incorporating healthy techniques and then i try not to go nuts when i go out.  two helpful mantras:  this is not my last meal and it's not the best X in the world.  and of course, i'm already a lifelong member of the "clean plate club" so i don't need to keep joining up again.

two great sources for healthier cooking techniques:  "a new way to cook"--really, really good ideas and cooking light magazine.

good luck!

[stellabella]

two helpful mantras:  this is not my last meal and it's not the best X in the world.  

knews9--BRILLIANT

i, too, am a plate cleaner, and not too long ago in a restaurant on my husband's b-day i LICKED my plate--he nearly beat me senseless but the sauce was SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good

you're so right--the more you enjoy and experience food the easier it becomes to say, this is great, BUT i don't have to make myself silly-sick on it

[Cass]

I hope this is the correct place to post.

I don't know much about the WW System, but I am very much into staying fit and healthy....and I love good food!!

This was breakfast today:

A Jonagold apple cooked with a bit of water, splenda, cinnamon, vanilla, nutmeg and a pinch of corn starch. Topped with whipped cottage cheese and a drizzle of raw honey.

170 calories

32g carbs

1g fat

13g protein

Not the same as an apple/cinnamon roll, but sweet and satisfying sans guilt.

[heidih]

That looks great Cass- I am impressed by the whipped cottage cheese. How did you do it, and was there any graininess? It looks smooth and thick.

[lancastermike]

My wife started going right after the first of the year. Last night she went and lost a another pound, She is down 23.5 since she started. I don't go but we eat the same stuff and I am down as well, though I think scales are evil, but I know I have dropped around the same

Edited March 25, 2011 by lancastermike (log)

[heidih]

Congrats to you and your wife Mike. Have you been eating anything that surprised you by being points friendly and also really really good?

[Cass]

That looks great Cass- I am impressed by the whipped cottage cheese. How did you do it, and was there any graininess? It looks smooth and thick.

I simply whipped 1/2 C in my Mini Cuisinart and it was very smooth.

I also use it sometimes with SF Jello/Pudding. It kicks up the nutritional value of a SF dessert, and still gives you the feel of whipped cream (almost!).

[dividend]

So DBF and I are doing the "slow carb" / 4 hour body diet. He wants to lose 20-30 pounds, and his co-workers have been having good success with this. I don't really need to lose weight, but I do all the cooking, and it doesn't seem like an unhealthy plan, so I committed to 4 weeks on this diet. The rules are basically :

- Don't eat anything white (or brown rice/whole wheat pasta), or dairy

- Don't eat fruit / juice

- Don't drink calories

- Eat 4-5 meals per day

- Take 1 day a week as a cheat day and eat whatever you want

I took it as a fun challenge. Albeit, an expensive one since all the cheap carb staples are out.

We started today.

I made a breakfast casserole from sweat potatoes, mushrooms, black beans, and eggs. It got the job done, but it was really hard to eat.

I just ate a steak fajita salad - several cups of spinach, cooked steak strips, sauteed fajita veggies, tomato salsa, chopped avocado, and a dressing made from pureed chipotle in adobo with EVOO and apple cider vinegar. As I was warming up the steak/veggies in the breakroom, several people commented on how delicious it looked. Nobody believed that it was diet food.

Second lunch (very hobbit-like ) will be this asian slaw with a few ounces of cooked chicken, and a cucumber salad.

He tells me that his coworkers eat a lot of canned beans and chili. I'm taking a more volumetrics oriented approach - lots of bulky greens and veggies, mostly whole foods. I can already tell that next week, I'm putting back orange juice, fruit and yogurt for breakfast, at least for me. I like that I don't have to count calories. DBF is worried that he won't get enough calories, so I'll probably have to think about compatible snacks.

Anyone tried this diet?

[JAZ]

I haven't heard of that diet. It seems too restrictive for me, even with the day to splurge. I'm the kind of person who automatically wants whatever food I'm not supposed to eat. What's the rationale for eating 4-5 times a day?

I've been following the Weight Watchers plan for a few months and like the fact that I can eat anything I want -- just not unlimited portions. I've found that most of my recipes are surprisingly "point-friendly" or can be made so with a few tweaks. The ones that aren't I just don't eat as often.

(Coincidentally, I'm having a similar "fajita" salad for dinner, but with tortilla strips on top.)

[heidih]

Dividend - on that slow carb plan I am surprised that refined sugar is ok (3T brown sugar in the salad dressing) if fruit or juice is not allowed. One thing these plans do is stretch our creative muscles. Let us know if you come up with some winners that you would eat regardless of being "on plan" or not.

[dividend]

I left the brown sugar out, actually. I make the slaw all the time, and it's seriously awesome. The lack of sugar was barely noticeable. (The only sugar I'm not going to worry about is what's in sriracha, or the tiny amount in the chipotle adobo.)

The steak fajita salad was so good, DBF messaged me this afternoon to say, "This is delicious; I want to eat this every day."

Now if I could only come up with awesome breakfast ideas that don't involve dairy, fruit, or grains.

[heidih]

I am a savory person so I could eat dinner leftovers for breakfast. Eggs and vegetables can be magical. Stuffed mushrooms using egg white as the binder have been showing up in my house fairly regularly- I can see that for breakfast.

Good to know that slaw recipe works without the sugar. I like to keep those types of raw salad preps in the fridge for snacking.

[SobaAddict70]

I left the brown sugar out, actually. I make the slaw all the time, and it's seriously awesome. The lack of sugar was barely noticeable. (The only sugar I'm not going to worry about is what's in sriracha, or the tiny amount in the chipotle adobo.)

The steak fajita salad was so good, DBF messaged me this afternoon to say, "This is delicious; I want to eat this every day."

Now if I could only come up with awesome breakfast ideas that don't involve dairy, fruit, or grains.

Very easy.

Baked eggs with roasted vegetables (in this case, heirloom carrots and crimini mushrooms).

Like this:

The pic shows sourdough croutons but you can omit those easily enough.

[sparrowgrass]

I found out in December that my blood sugar was high--pre-diabetes is what the doc says, but I think pre-diabetes is like being 'a little bit' pregnant.

I have been doing low carb--less than 30 carbs per meal, sometimes 0 carbs per meal. Almost no grain, no sugar, no potatoes. I eat a little barley now and then.

Lots of green leafies, broccoli, celery, etc, and meat.

I have lost 25 pounds since Dec. 1, and, more importantly, my blood sugar monitor says I am doing a good job.

No cravings, but I do miss popcorn.

[dividend]

I used this bahn mi recipe to make lettuce wraps, and they're awesome. I made the pork mixture almost exactly as directed (I like the crunch of adding diced water chestnuts), and then wrapped it up in iceberg lettuce leaves with shredded red cabbage, carrrots, cucumber, bean sprouts, basil, cilantro, and chopped peanuts. These are seriously delicious.

It's been 2 weeks on this stupid fad diet. DBF has been very strict, and has lost 5-6 pounds so far. I have been less strict, but I have still lost 3 pounds. So it might actually work.