Fried Chicken: Cook-Off 5

[Eden]

Yay fried chicken!

one answer, and a couple quesions:

brown paper sacks? like the ones the ones from a supermarket?

Those are REALLY hard to find in Japan....

What does this do? can it be skipped?

It's just a way to distribute the flour mix over the chicken quickly & evenly rather than rolling the chix pieces around itn a pie plate or the like.

In addition to the ziplocks mentioned above you can use a large tupperware type container, and shake about in that instead. And if it's clear you get the advantage of seeing how well you've coated your chix as you go. basically you just need something you can shake about, without throwing flour all over your kitchen, that will fit pieces of chicken in it nicely.

I've only made fried chicken once and the recipe was for the shallow fried version, but a friend who was helping & has made fried chicken many many times over-rode the recipce and had me deep fry instead. Tasted great! I don't specifically remember ever having the pan fried version to notice the difference, so that's what I want to try for this round (EG cook-offs are all about expanding your horizons, right?)

My first question is how long will buttermilk keep? since I happen to have some in the fridge leftover from making mom's Buttermilk Pie and I don't expect to get to this immediately...

And second question - does it really have to be a cast iron skillet? If so why? I have lovely big deep le creuset dutch ovens that I would probably use to help control the heat/contain the grease etc, or my LeC fry pan, though it's not super deep. [i was traumatized by Cast Iron as a child so I don't own a cast iron skillet, but I could probably borrow one if I really needed to...]

[Mayhaw Man]

Doesn't anyone ever get asked, "paper or plastic?" when they are checking out at the market? We can still get paper pretty much everywhere, even Wal Mart will offer if you have frozen food.

Anyway, a doubled grocery bag makes a great insulator, and it is what all batch fried food I grew up eating (fish, chicken, hush puppies, whatever) was immediatly placed in.

They allow the food to stay warm, but allow steam to escape , so that the crust doesn't get soggy. See? There's a reason for all of the paper bag talk.

That chicken recipe is good, the one that Marlene posted. Really good. Better than Dave's.

Of course, I've never had Dave's, But that's not really important. Mine's better.

[torakris]

Yay fried chicken! 

one answer, and a couple quesions:

brown paper sacks? like the ones the ones from a supermarket?

Those are REALLY hard to find in Japan....

What does this do? can it be skipped?

It's just a way to distribute the flour mix over the chicken quickly & evenly rather than rolling the chix pieces around itn a pie plate or the like.

In addition to the ziplocks mentioned above you can use a large tupperware type container, and shake about in that instead. And if it's clear you get the advantage of seeing how well you've coated your chix as you go. basically you just need something you can shake about, without throwing flour all over your kitchen, that will fit pieces of chicken in it nicely.

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But what is the brown bag for after the chicken is cooked?

Way up thread Marlene said:

Place cooked chicken in doubled brown paper sacks with the bottoms lined with paper towels.

EDIT:

I see Brooks was answering my question while I was slowly pecking at my keyboard.....

Edited March 14, 2005 by torakris (log)

[Jake]

Doesn't anyone ever get asked, "paper or plastic?" when they are checking out at the market? We can still get paper pretty much everywhere, even Wal Mart will offer  if you have frozen food.

Anyway, a doubled grocery bag makes a great insulator, and it is what all batch fried food I grew up eating (fish, chicken, hush puppies, whatever) was immediatly placed in.

They allow the food to stay warm, but allow steam to escape , so that the crust doesn't get soggy. See? There's a reason for all of the paper bag talk.

That chicken recipe is good, the one that Marlene posted. Really good. Better than Dave's.

Of course, I've never had Dave's, But that's not really important. Mine's better.

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Well then, kind sir, please post your recipe!!!!

btw, in Canada you cannot get paper bags anywhere, except the liquor store -- the size of a wine bottle. Guess that's why the gov't wants to send trash to the good old US of A!

[torakris]

Kristin, I think that the "fried chicken" concept for this cook-along is intentionally broad. I feel that you should come up with a tasty  "fried chicken" variant appropriate  to your circumstance. (No trips to Costco necessary). If that means skinless, boneless chicken coated in Panko, I don't think anyone will feel offended in the least! In my (admittedly limited) experience, the chicken available in Japan is very flavorful - probably a major step up from what I can find in my local IGA. Find some nice chicken meat and treat it to your best coating / frying technique. Your best Italo-American-Jananese-NorthEastOhio effort!     Yay!

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but I want to eat the real stuff!!!

[patti]

Well then, kind sir, please post your recipe!!!!

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See post 13 in this thread. Marlene posted Mayhaw Man's recipe under "Dorothy's Chicken."

[Jake]

Well then, kind sir, please post your recipe!!!!

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See post 13 in this thread. Marlene posted Mayhaw Man's recipe under "Dorothy's Chicken."

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Indeed she did, thank you kindly patti. Perhaps next time I'll remember to read the thread again instead of just typing with a glass of wine by my side. Oops. Sorry.

[MarketStEl]

I see I'm joining the party late, but I'm definitely game.

My local Acme had a special on Perdue "Oven Stuffer" roasters, but I may just cut up this bird instead so I can get to fryin' soon. (Besides, it's quicker than roasting.)

Though I'm a native Midwesterner, and thus can consider fried chicken a "native" dish, I've lived in the land of effete Eastern snobbery for too long to have my stuff considered "authentic," I'm afraid. Not to mention that I've had Popeye's imprinted on my taste buds and often try to approximate their spicy recipe.

I'm a shallow-fryer myself and double-dip my chicken: beaten egg, flour mixture, beaten egg again, flour mixture again. This produces a crust that's just about as crunchy as a good batter-dipped deep-fried chicken.

I'll let you know what seasonings went into the flour after I've prepared my next batch.

[snowangel]

So, I have questions and comments:

Baking powder and ice water. Versus buttermilk. Some scientist, please explain! Then, I go to my new Gourmet cookbook, which recommends sprinking the cut up chicken with 1/2 cup of kosher salt (draws the water out, making for less splattering, and tenderizes) for 1 hour before risning and "marinating" said rinsed chicken in buttermilk and onion.

The rest of the recipe is pretty much in accordance with what many sources say. Coat in enhanced flour, let set, and fry.

Now, I did find the recipe in the file from my great grandmother. Amost unreadable, due to the splotches, stains, and that wondfully intriguing spidery handwritting.

"Soak one cut up fresh fryer in buttermilk (and, I'm sure by fresh, she meant one she'd chased around and de-headed herself, and the buttermilk would have been from Her Farm). Keep in the ice box until ready. Mix flour with s & p. Fry in 1/2 crisco and 1/2 bacon grease in the cast iron skillet until done.

When my grandmother, her daughter, cleaned out her house, I said to my sister, casually, sure, you can have the cast iron skillet.

Silly me.

[helenjp]

I said to my sister, casually, sure, you can have the cast iron skillet

Heh heh. When my mother cleaned out her kitchen, she said, casually, "You can have one of those cast iron frying pans if you want". "Sure," I said, and grabbed the best one, before she had even a second to rephrase her offer.

[Akiko]

There are so many different and delicious ways to do fried chicken! One of my favorite things to eat.

I did one last week Chinese style. Gently poach a whole chicken in water with aromatics. Mine was asian style so I added - Shao Hsing, green onions, garlic, and ginger.

Air dry overnight in the refrigerator (or even two nights). This step is very necessary for crisp skin.

Cut chicken in half up the breastbone and backbone. Deep fry breast side down in very hot oil (I used peanut). Turn over once the breast side is golden and fry the other side.

this is delicious sprinkled with szechuan peppercorn salt and some cilantro.

[My Confusing Horoscope]

We were planning on yardbird this week, Prudhomme Family Cookbook recipe!

One time at the start of a staff meeting at work we were all chit chatting and somebody said they didn't like fried chicken. I surprised even myself, and the whole staff, with my emphatic, immediate reply "You don't like fried chicken?????? Well THAT IS COMMUNIST!"

Edited March 14, 2005 by My Confusing Horoscope (log)

[NulloModo]

I'll probably get kicked off of this thread, but I'm going to fry it two ways. One batch will be chicken tenders for my son, and the other will  be naked chicken for me (skin on, but no batter), and none for my husband, who is the only person I know who doesn't enjoy fried chicken. I really, really, really love fried chicken, but I need to low carb it, which I'm sure will offend, irritate, piss off, and aggravate some posters, but that's what I'm gonna do.

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I will get in with you on this one too. Thankfully there are lots of LC fried chicken breading alternatives. I've done the pork rind crust, parm crust, naked fried, and recently started playing around with making batters from LC flours. Maybe I can do a little of each just to come up with a clear winner.

[fifi]

Just to throw in another approach for Southern US style, I checked James Villas' recipe against my Aunt Minnie's. Actually, the one I checked was his mother's recipe in My Mother's Southern Kitchen.

It was pretty much Aunt Minnie's as to quantities but there were some departures. No Tabasco, no leavening in the flour mix, and the chicken gets a dip in milk before flouring instead of the longer soak in buttermilk. The paper bags are there, as are the frying temperatures.

Having started into "research mode" I thought I would see what we have said here in the past. I found this interesting thread over in Southern Food Culture.

I am sure that all of these approaches differ in the details. For those that are making the "traditional Southern style," it will be pretty interesting to see how the variables work out.

But I certainly hope that all of this talk of Southern style doesn't discourage the sharing of various other techniques for baptizing a bird in fat.

edit to add: How could I forget this article, Robb Walsh's discussion of the subject with none other than John T. Edge.

Edited March 14, 2005 by fifi (log)

[Susan in FL]

Oh, good! I can join in this time because I meet the qualifications to do this one.

but rarely have made

I am stretching that a bit. I made it a few times back in my previous life (first marriage), but it's been years and years, so I'll call that rarely. My then-mother-in-law bought me a cast-iron skillet and taught me how to make fried chicken in it immediatly after I married her son. She used bacon grease -- I sometimes did, and sometimes used peanut oil, and sometimes both -- and flour with "special seasonings."

...and the other will be naked chicken for me (skin on, but no batter), and none for my husband ...I really, really, really love fried chicken, but I need to low carb it, which I'm sure will offend, irritate, piss off, and aggravate some posters, but that's what I'm gonna do.

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No offense or any negativity taken here! Russ pan-fries his chicken thighs that way. I love them. I could eat them every week and request them often.

[ldubois2]

I'm in on this one, too. Born in Greenville, Mississippi and while its been a while, I have fried some chicken before. But it'll have to be Tuesday.

We used the brown paper bags on the front end to coat with flour and seasonings (paprika, garlic powder, salt, pepper) and on the back end to remove as much oil as possible.

I remember adding bacon grease (which every good southern cook would have for this purpose or seasoning green beans) darkens the chicken a bit along with flavor.

[Looked at Ma Dip's Kitchen recipe for fun (Durham, NC restaurant of some repute). She brines the chicken for 20 minutes, coats with flour and pepper and fries in shortening (350 degrees) fries for a total of 20 minutes.]

Slightly off subject.....gravy? Can we actually make this without milk gravy?

[eunny jang]

We've been frying a lot of chicken lately - I marinate in buttermilk and Tabasco, shake with flour and baking powder, and pan-fry with Crisco and bacon grease.

It is absolutely delicious - shattering-crisp crust, juicy meat, even when consumed the next day, standing in front of the fridge.

My only problem's been finding chickens small enough to cook the insides before the crust burns - thighs from even a 3.5 lb bird skate on the outer edge of the balancing act.

[Toliver]

Anyone add onions to their oil? Is that a Southern thing?

I saw an episode of "Tyler's Ultimate" where he was in a restaurant kitchen in Oxford, Mississippi, where they were making fried chicken. The women doing the frying (using the biggest fry skillet I have ever seen) tossed hunks of onion into the oil before they started frying the chicken. You can click on the link to "Chalfonte Fried Chicken" for the recipe where the onion gets dropped into the oil.

[fifi]

We've been frying a lot of chicken lately - I marinate in buttermilk and Tabasco, shake with flour and baking powder, and pan-fry with Crisco and bacon grease.

It is absolutely delicious - shattering-crisp crust, juicy meat, even when consumed the next day, standing in front of the fridge.

My only problem's been finding chickens small enough to cook the insides before the crust burns - thighs from even a 3.5 lb bird skate on the outer edge of the balancing act.

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You are absolutely right. I agree that 3 1/2 pounds is the limit, and that is if you save the breasts for something else or hack them in half. As I posted above, packages of chicken pieces here look like they come from at least 4 pounders. I haven't seen a whole chicken at less than 3 1/2 pounds in a long time.

Anyone add onions to their oil?  Is that a Southern thing?

I saw an episode of "Tyler's Ultimate" where he was in a restaurant kitchen in Oxford, Mississippi, where they were making fried chicken.  The women doing the frying (using the biggest fry skillet I have ever seen) tossed hunks of onion into the oil before they started frying the chicken.  You can click on the link to "Chalfonte Fried Chicken" for the recipe where the onion gets dropped into the oil.

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Now that you mention it, I remember that episode. I thought the addition of the onions was really odd. I had never seen it, for whatever that is worth. I wonder if that is a micro-regional thing, sort of like poaching eggs in gumbo? Do you remember if they ate the onion?

Milk gravy . . . Definitely. I think my technique for that could use some work. As I remember, if Aunt Minnie was frying a couple of chickens, she would use two frying pans so that the "crumbs" didn't overbrown with the cooking of the second batch. Then she made the most sublime milk gravy. I never perfected that. Mine is ok, just not as heavenly as I remember.

[Toliver]

Anyone add onions to their oil?  Is that a Southern thing?

I saw an episode of "Tyler's Ultimate" where he was in a restaurant kitchen in Oxford, Mississippi, where they were making fried chicken.  The women doing the frying (using the biggest fry skillet I have ever seen) tossed hunks of onion into the oil before they started frying the chicken.  You can click on the link to "Chalfonte Fried Chicken" for the recipe where the onion gets dropped into the oil.

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Now that you mention it, I remember that episode. I thought the addition of the onions was really odd. I had never seen it, for whatever that is worth. I wonder if that is a micro-regional thing, sort of like poaching eggs in gumbo? Do you remember if they ate the onion?

Milk gravy . . . Definitely. I think my technique for that could use some work. As I remember, if Aunt Minnie was frying a couple of chickens, she would use two frying pans so that the "crumbs" didn't overbrown with the cooking of the second batch. Then she made the most sublime milk gravy. I never perfected that. Mine is ok, just not as heavenly as I remember.

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I wondered if the onion really added anything to the final product. It's gotta be there just for flavoring the oil. The Chinese season their oil before stir frying...why not do it with oil for frying chicken? And to answer your question, no, the onion was discarded. I am sure by the time the chicken is done cooking the onion is "toast" anyway, so to speak.

My milk gravy has always turned out disappointing. It usually tastes like "nothing".

If you have any tips or a recipe you can post, that would be great. Milk Gravy was never really covered in any of the eGCI classes.

[eunny jang]

My milk gravy has always turned out disappointing. It usually tastes like "nothing".

If you have any tips or a recipe you can post, that would be great. Milk Gravy was never really covered in any of the eGCI classes.

Me too, please. My milk gravy is usually bits of salty stuff bobbing about in a sea of unappetizingly grey milk. I keep trying, but it's never anything anyone can eat. Bear in mind I have absolutely zero first-hand experience with fried chicken outside my own kitchen - the phrase "real fried chicken" carries enough mystique that I'm willing to buy that milk gravy is something one must learn from one's grandmother.

[Marlene]

Is milk gravy the same thing as cream gravy? The following is the recipe Brooks gave me when I made his fried chicken. I tried this and it worked wonderfully!

Better than your Grandma’s Creamed Gravy

Pour all but a little bit of grease out of the skillet. Add the leftover seasoned flour and brown slightly, Stir in a good bit of chicken stock and combine with the four mixture, using a whisk and making sure that you get all of the lumps out. Finish by adding some canned evaporated milk. Season with salt and pepper to taste (it won’t take much if you used good stock). Serve over rice.

[zilla369]

any recipes that don't use buttermilk? There is no buttermilk in Japan.

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Kris and others: it's easy to create a substitute "buttermilk" by placing one tablespoon of lemon juice or distilled white vinegar in a measuring cup and adding enough whole milk to make one cup. Let it stand for 10 minutes in the fridge before using. Not tasty enough to drink, but plenty good enough for fried chicken marinade. I prefer the lemon juice version.

I'm so curious...why no buttermilk in Japan?

[fifi]

. . . . .

. . . I'm willing to buy that milk gravy is something one must learn from one's grandmother.

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Apparantly that is the case. I have just gone through about 25 books that should have some info. That includes Villas, some Southern Junior League type collections, Cooks Illustrated tomes . . . No luck at all. That is just freakin' weird. The only reference I found was in a Texas collection coffee table style book. It doesn't start with the "drippings" but maybe the proportions will help. It starts with 3/4 cups fat, 1/2 cup flour, 2 cups milk.

Is milk gravy the same thing as cream gravy?  The following is the recipe Brooks gave me when I made his fried chicken.  I tried this and it worked wonderfully!

Better than your Grandma’s Creamed Gravy

Pour all but a little bit of grease out of the skillet. Add the leftover seasoned flour and brown slightly, Stir in a good bit of chicken stock and combine with the four mixture, using a whisk and making sure that you get all of the lumps out. Finish by adding some canned evaporated milk. Season with salt and pepper to taste (it won’t take much if you used good stock). Serve over rice.

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That seems pretty close to what Aunt Minnie did. I think she just used milk, though as she usually didn't have chicken stock around at the same time. Chicken stock was always made specifically for a dish like chicken and dumplings. She wasn't into freezers yet.

(Is that supposed to be a link?)

[Marlene]

Sorry fifi. Is what supposed to be a link?