Food Pronunciation Guide for the Dim-witted

[tryska]

seems like we need to discuss gyros - or:

Geeh-rows

Guy-rows

Ghy-rows

Yeer-ows

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I'd like to know that one for sure! Is it Yeer-ows?

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It was covered already. Busboy gave the definitive answer which I cannot remember for the life of me.

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in this thread? i must have missed it - i pretty much started skimming form the gabbagool/fazool discussions and french pronunication issues on....

[Pan]

It was in a separate thread about gyros. Apparently, the "g" is actually not a Gamma but a Chi in Greek, and is pronounced like the "ch" in "chutzpah" (but, I think, lightly sounded) ; ergo "khiro" or some such.

[chuck]

Has anyone mentioned victuals? I didn't realize how it was pronounced (or rather how the word 'vittles' was spelled) after reading it my whole life until maybe a year ago.

Anytime I'm in a French bakery I just say, 'I'll take one of the, uh, yeah that, no the next one over, with chocolate. And a tall drip.' Works splendidly. I avoid mangling both pastries and espresso.

[Abra]

Fascinating, but hey! How about commis?

[tryska]

It was in a separate thread about gyros. Apparently, the "g" is actually not a Gamma but a Chi in Greek, and is pronounced like the "ch" in "chutzpah" (but, I think, lightly sounded) ; ergo "khiro" or some such.

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thanks Pan - i shall order it that way from now one. Altho and this brings up another point - i hate when order takers get thrown off when you order something the correct way. Or maybe I'm being incorrect - i got tripped up ordering Roti Canai at a local place. I ordered it as Roti Chanai, and the guy looked at me puzzled for a moment, and said oh you mean mean Roti Kanai!

But at a previous Malaysian place it was pronounced Roti Chanai so now i have no idea.

[merrybaker]

I wish people would just pronounce it as a regular western H sound -- since Arabic also has a separate KH sound things can get kind of confusing.

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Glad to oblige, but is the "u" pronounced like the "u" in "hummer," or the "u" in "put"? I've heard it both ways.

[Behemoth]

I wish people would just pronounce it as a regular western H sound -- since Arabic also has a separate KH sound things can get kind of confusing.

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Glad to oblige, but is the "u" pronounced like the "u" in "hummer," or the "u" in "put"? I've heard it both ways.

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The second one, like "put". The double M is stressed -- you would almost treat it like two words: hum-mus. How do I describe it? You pause for a half second at the first M.

Having said that, no Arabic speaker I know of would be annoyed at a mispronounciation. Usually they are just thrilled that someone would bother to try. The main goal is to be understood, so don't stress out about it.

[merrybaker]

Thank you. Now I can say "hummus."

Have we covered the pronunciation of zataar (zatar, za'atar, zatahr, well, you know what I mean)?

[maggiethecat]

Regarding the Vietnamese dish "pho", I am not Vietnamese but I work with a woman who is and it's pronounced "fuh", as other posters have pointed out.

I always think my cowroker is getting ready to cuss at me when she says "pho".

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Maybe there are regional accents in Vietnam? My son-in-law to be's name is Nguyen, and his parents are from Vietnam. He insists that the proninciation is closer to foe than to fuh.

[Pan]

[...] i got tripped up ordering Roti Canai at a local place.  I ordered it as Roti Chanai, and the guy looked at me puzzled for a moment, and said oh you mean mean Roti Kanai![...]

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All that means is that your server wasn't a Malaysian and has no idea how to speak or pronounce Malay.

[Behemoth]

Thank you.  Now I can say "hummus."

Have we covered the pronunciation of zataar (zatar, za'atar, zatahr, well, you know what I mean)?

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zaa'tar

[merrybaker]

zaa'tar

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ZAH-tar or ZAH-a-tar?

[Zucchini Mama]

Have you covered Chipotle yet? Canadians seem to be putting it in everything short of dog food these days and I've never heard a convincing pronunciation.

Zuke

[Behemoth]

ZAH-tar or ZAH-a-tar?

The first one.

[*Deborah*]

Have you covered Chipotle yet? Canadians seem to be putting it in everything short of dog food these days and I've never heard a convincing pronunciation.

Zuke

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Chi-POAT-leh is the best I can do for phonetic. It's just the way it's spelled, in Spanish.

The big problem with that one is that easily half the time, people (mis)spell it chipolte

[chefzadi]

ZAH-tar or ZAH-a-tar?

The first one.

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*cough*

Depends on the derja.

Seriously though the first one is fine.

[Behemoth]

ZAH-tar or ZAH-a-tar?

The first one.

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*cough*

Depends on the derja.

Seriously though the first one is fine.

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Is that true? I thought classical Arabic was pronounced the same everywhere, regardless of dialect. How would you pronounce it?

Anyway, regardless of dialect, the ' represents the letter 'ayn, so it certainly wouldn't be pronounced the second way.

[chefzadi]

ZAH-tar or ZAH-a-tar?

The first one.

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*cough*

Depends on the derja.

Seriously though the first one is fine.

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Is that true? I thought classical Arabic was pronounced the same everywhere, regardless of dialect. How would you pronounce it?

Anyway, regardless of dialect, the ' represents the letter 'ayn, so it certainly wouldn't be pronounced the second way.

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I would pronounce it the way you do with a slightly differenct accent. The thing is classical Arabic is not spoken much outside of academia, formal business and govt in Algeria. Have you not read ALL of my posts in the AfricaMiddle East forum regarding this? Also when we speak of Algerian derja, it's more accurate to say derjas. Depending the linguistic abilities of the speaker they are not mutually unintelligable. For instance the derja that I speak based on a village in Setif might be described as having a heavy Amazigh accent with alot of Amazigh loan words. It's very distinct. But growing up in France and living in the States I've been exposed to more derjas including Moroccan and Tunisian, so my ear has developed some.

Not to get too off topic, but some background information might be in order. During colonial times Algeria was cut off from written Arabic (French ban) and dialetical Arabic with the rest of the Arabic speaking world. Isolation from other parts of the country for the 'natives' also compounded the differences.

We are still struggling with the idea of what a common derja should be. Possibly TV will de facto provide the answer which I hope includes Amazigh as well.

[merrybaker]

Depends on the derja.

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Ooh, for a minute I thought that was a new food I haven't tried yet.

[Genny]

Have you covered Chipotle yet? Canadians seem to be putting it in everything short of dog food these days and I've never heard a convincing pronunciation.

Zuke

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Chi-POAT-leh is the best I can do for phonetic. It's just the way it's spelled, in Spanish.

The big problem with that one is that easily half the time, people (mis)spell it chipolte

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My DH has given up on this one and pronounces it "Cha-poodle". Dear me. (smacks head)

[Behemoth]

I would pronounce it the way you do with a slightly differenct accent. The thing is classical Arabic is not spoken much outside of academia, formal business and govt in Algeria. Have you not read ALL of my posts in the AfricaMiddle East forum regarding this?

Of course I've read all your posts, Farid. In fact I often print them out and hang them around the house for inspiration

Every Arabic-speaking country has it's own dialect, but if I am teaching a non-native speaker how to say something, unless they ask for a specific dialect I will give them the classical pronounciation, since at least it is understood everywhere.

News programs and official statements are always read in classical Arabic, but unlike German, say, where "high" German is actually spoken in certain regions, nobody actually speaks classical arabic in coversation, unless they are total prats.

It ends up being a little awkward since, for example, when I have colleagues from North Africa, we find classical Arabic so unnatural for conversation that we'd rather struggle along trying to work through our respective dialects. And then we usually switch to English.

Of course I could lay some thick North Lebanon accent on the above pronounciations but you don't want people sounding like rubes when they're in Beirut you know. Unless I happen not to like that person...but so far everyone has been pretty nice to me

What was the topic again?

[C_Ruark]

seems like we need to discuss gyros - or:

Geeh-rows

Guy-rows

Ghy-rows

Yeer-ows

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I'd like to know that one for sure! Is it Yeer-ows?

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The last one if you are on the island of Crete .

-CSR

[C_Ruark]

Every Arabic-speaking country has it's own dialect, but if I am teaching a non-native speaker how to say something, unless they ask for a specific dialect I will give them the classical pronounciation, since at least it is understood everywhere.

News programs and official statements are always read in classical Arabic, but unlike German, say, where "high" German is actually spoken in certain regions, nobody actually speaks classical arabic in coversation, unless they are total prats... Of course I could lay some thick North Lebanon accent on the above pronounciations but you don't want people sounding like rubes when they're in Beirut you know. Unless I happen not to like that person...but so far everyone has been pretty nice to me 

What was the topic again?

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"Classical Arabic" ? I think we're talking about Modern Standard Arabic, the form used in news and official state correspondences... no such thing as a classical form of Arabic (unlike that much hated and difficult measure used to describe medical conditions).

Someone remind me again... is the arabic letter "G" a zh'iim or a g'iim or j'iim. Can't remember... . JK.

So, to get back on topic. If y'all have a Harris Teeters grocers in your area, head over to the soup isle and have a look around. In a brown lunch-bag type box (can't remember the vendors name), I actually found a box of soup labelled "Pasta Fazool". If I remember, I'll take my digi-cam in and snap a pic of this atrocity.

Later,

- CSR

[Behemoth]

"Classical Arabic" ? I think we're talking about Modern Standard Arabic, the form used in news and official state correspondences... no such thing as a classical form of Arabic (unlike that much hated and difficult measure used to describe medical conditions).

Dude, I don't know what you people call it in English.

[chefzadi]

"Classical Arabic" ? I think we're talking about Modern Standard Arabic, the form used in news and official state correspondences... no such thing as a classical form of Arabic (unlike that much hated and difficult measure used to describe medical conditions).

Dude, I don't know what you people call it in English.

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