PIZZA CLUB 2005!

[Rich Pawlak]

Let's move our discussion of PIZZA CLUB to this new thread, and let the ridiculously long original thread have a rest.

SHOUT OUT BROOKLYN! Jan 29, 2005 11AM!

[phifly04]

I am so passionate about Imperial Pizza in Secane,Pa.I Grew up on it and i can still get one for like 5.50,it,s got a sandy bottom,a bubbly top and i love sharing it with any/every one who wants a slice-does that me a bad guy?or just a dick with ears?bring beer

Dave s

[Tim Dolan]

Hi, I'm new to eGullet but this site seems incredible. I'm not sure if anyone can help, but being that this is the Pizza Club I was wondering if anyone remembers the old Manayunk Farmer's Market? Unfortunately that space is now occpuied by a tacky upscale hardware store, but while it was still the market there was a pizza stand in there called Mateo's, and they had the most incredible pizza I've ever tasted. Huge slices, good toppings, great crust, however long gone. The Farmer's Market closed a few years back while I was just graduating high school (yeah I"m a youngster) and I fear that Mateo's never relocated. Does anybody have any clue what I'm talking about?

[Rich Pawlak]

Hi, I'm new to eGullet but this site seems incredible. I'm not sure if anyone can help, but being that this is the Pizza Club I was wondering if anyone remembers the old Manayunk Farmer's Market? Unfortunately that space is now occpuied by a tacky upscale hardware store, but while it was still the market there was a pizza stand in there called Mateo's, and they had the most incredible pizza I've ever tasted. Huge slices, good toppings, great crust, however long gone. The Farmer's Market closed a few years back while I was just graduating high school (yeah I"m a youngster) and I fear that Mateo's never relocated. Does anybody have any clue what I'm talking about?

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I suspect you may be able to find the answer with some of the former mechants at the Farmers Market, two of whom operate stands at The Bellevue Food Court. The folks who operate Full of Soup as well as 12th Street Cantina also had stands in Manayunk back then, so they may be the best start to your search. That Mateos' pizza WAS good; I lived in Manayunk back then, and it was regular stop for me.

[cdh]

I'm new, can someone inform me how to get in on Pizza Club.  Etiquette, time, place etc.

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Three easy steps:

1) read here for announcements

2) RSVP

3) appear at the designated time and place

Looking at all the pictures in the previous Pizza Club thread might give you a sampling of familiar faces to find once you get there.

Come along, and enjoy!

[Lisa1349]

Jesus Christmas!  Will the destination pizzerias be able to HANDLE us?

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All except for DiFara's. We can rotate between the van and the pizzeria, or find a larger pizzeria.

How much does the van come to, with tax and all the hoopla? How many axles does it have? I think the Goethals and Verrazano bridges charge per axle.

[Fresser]

Hey, Pizza Clubbers!

Don't forget to order a Fresser Special: thin crust with extra garlic!

I actually visited Spumoni Gardens with Big Mushy a few years ago. My, what wonderful Sicilian-style squares they serve. The medium-thick crust actually tasted like fine French bread to me.

[SethG]

Grimaldi's wasn't chosen for this trip because this is a tour of 'my Brooklyn' -neighborhoods/places that I frequented while growing up (last year) 

I'm sure it's great and we can go there some other time.

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Hey, your choices are obviously top places-- enjoy! I just wondered, since you obviously figured out the other great Brooklyn pizzerias, why you omitted Grimaldi's. If you managed to miss it while "growing up," you really should check it out some time. But if I were planning a trip to Brooklyn, the one I'd be sure to insist on is DiFara's (which of course is on your list), since who knows how much longer Dom will keep at it? And you know that place will be different once he's no longer making every pie.

[Andrew Fenton]

So how was it, gang? It can't have been as exciting as my Saturday, what with the lying in bed dying of the flu and watching daytime TV. (I mean, I did have half a bowl of won ton soup, which was pretty rockin'.) But second to that, I'm sure it must have been at least okay... Which Brooklyn joint came out on top?

[Lisa1349]

Just got back. Super major thanks to Rich for driving and handling the van in stellar fashion. Shucks golly gosh what a nice bunch you all are to hang out with. Special thanks to Janet and Gary for cookies and GANACHE.

DiFara's artichoke porcini was tops for me. Hopefully some pictures will turn up soon.

[KatieLoeb]

Indeed a wonderful afternoon spent with wonderful people. Everything was delicious, but I have to agree with Lisa that DiFara's Artichoke/Porcini pie was a revelation. The quality of ingredients blew me away. Fresh artichokes!! Olive oil preserved Porcini mushrooms! YIKES!! The careful stretching of the dough. The gentle layering of the sauce. THREE kinds of cheese freshly grated, sliced or torn onto each and every pizza - to order!! Fresh herbs growing on the windowsill!!! Just watching Mr. DeMarco make the pies was like lying on your back on the floor of the Sistine Chapel and watching that crazy artist on the scaffolding paint. I've never seen anyone be so meticulous in putting together what is truly an artisinal food product. When Mr. DeMarco retires, there will be no more DiFara's - that is clear. The care, the patience, the touch and the love that goes into each pie can not be taught. Even to family. It's just a prodigal gift. The pies at DiFara's were glorious. Our bunch of Philly Pholk walked in there, stalked the tables and eventually comandeered the place. Which isn't saying much because it's a hole in the wall. But I'd go back to worship there anytime.

Here's the one pic I took on my camera phone. This is the DiFara's Sausage, Mushroom, Peppers & Onion Magnum Opus.

The Sicilian pie at L & B Spumoni Gardens was the best slice of Sicilian style pie I've ever had. The sauce was amazing. And that big honking salad was spot on at that moment. The Spumoni was a great "palate cleanser" for what was yet to come.

The staff at Totonno's wins the hospitality award hands down. By the time we left we were part of the family. They couldn't have been kinder to us. And the pizzas were probably as similar to Taconelli's as anything we've had anywhere else in our travels. Wafer thin crust with just a bit of char and that lovely smokiness that only a coal or wood fired oven can give to a pizza pie. It's been a long time since I've had anchovies on a pizza. They were goooood!

Last but not least, the opportunity to have a hot dog at the original Coney Island Nathan's was too great a draw to resist. Happily sated, I napped on the ride home. I suspect I'll sleep like a hero tonight as well, as long as I don't roll onto my stomach and wake up from the see-sawing!

Thanks to Lisa for logistics, Rich for driving, Janet for cookies, Gary for gratuitous carbohydrates that were not to be missed and to all for the wonderful company and the laughs!

[MarketStEl]

Here are some more pix and comments on today's Pizza Club Brooklyn Invasion.

DiFara's

The artichoke and porcini mushroom pizza was as incredible as Katie said it was, but so were the other three pies we ordered. The plain cheese pizza was the best of its kind I've ever eaten, and I believe that both the mix of cheeses--aged fontina applied in slices,

fresh mozzarella--a common ingredient on New York pizzas but rare here--

and fresh grated Romano,

are combined over a slightly sweet San Marzano tomato sauce. The result is to die for:

It's even better topped with onions, peppers, sausage and mushrooms. The 'shrooms--which have been steamed--are added after the pizza comes out of the oven.

Here's the finished product fresh from the oven, with the steam still rising off the mushrooms:

The crust is as close to perfection as it gets--thin and crisp, but just a bit chewy. The high moisture content in the toppings, though, makes it a little soggy, but this is not a flaw.

Similarly, the half-artichoke, half-porcini mushroom pizza comes out with only the artichokes:

and the porcini mushrooms are a finishing touch:

Finally, we ordered a square pizza with pepperoni. DiFara's doesn't call this pie "Sicilian," though that's what it is, but the crust is a little thinner than most Sicilian crusts are:

Overall, DiFara's was the best of an outstanding bunch. Right on its heels was our last stop,

Totonno's

This was the one pizzeria we visited that had a coal-burning oven,

and the owner was not only proud of it, she was disdainful of anyplace that didn't use either a coal- or wood-burning oven. "Oh, that's just gas," she said when we told her what DiFara's uses to produce their masterpieces. "You can't make real pizza with gas."

She can back up that attitude, though, with first-rate pizza based on a crust with character, thanks to that coal-burning oven. The crust is hand-tossed,

topped with fresh mozzarella and Romano, and baked to perfection. The crust has a nice, slightly charred flavor to it and is a bit chewier than DiFara's. The sauce is also just a touch sweeter, but it's not tomato-paste sweetness.

That sweet sauce is counterbalanced nicely by the salty anchovies on the last pizza we ordered:

Rich Pawlak, to his amazement, actually liked this pie--he normally avoids anchovies on his pizza.

We also had a sausage-mushroom-onion-pepper combo

and a plain cheese pie (picture unavailable). The staff made us feel right at home, as did the decor, which is as unpretentious as it gets--pressed tin walls and ceiling, fluorescent lighting and walls lined with photos of the famous and newspaper clips touting the place or significant events: above our table was the front page of the Daily Mirror on the day World War II ended.

In between these two sublime experiences was an excellent interlude at

L & B Spumoni Gardens

"L&B Pizza Factory" would be an equally appropriate name, as this picture of the pizzeria's bank of 24 pizza ovens should make clear.

But L&B is also a spumoni/ice cream parlor, a sit-down Italian restaurant and an Italian take-out shop. According to Lisa's mother, on nice summer evenings, it's also a popular neighborhood gathering spot, as people come out to eat pizza, pasta and spumoni on its outdoor terrace.

Even on this winter evening, the place was packed with customers, both eating and waiting to get in. Our party of 14 kept them all waiting a little while longer while we gorged on entirely too much tossed salad and a tasty Sicilian pie. The pizza was so good we almost forgot to take pictures of it (and the one I took, sadly, came out blurred). The crust was crispy on the bottom and doughy on the top, like a good Sicilian pizza crust should be. But the real surprise was the topping: what looked like a tomato pie wasn't-- L&B puts the cheese on their pie first, then the sauce. (No fresh mozarella here, sad to say. ) Katie raved about the sauce, which balances sweetness and acidity; Gary raved about the cherry tomatoes in the salad, which I thought weren't that exceptional; they tasted a little underripe to me. The lettuce, red cabbage and other salad ingredients, though, were top quality, and the lemony vinaigrette went well with it. We finished with our first dessert of the evening--spumoni, natch.

But the real dessert treat came at the end, with Gary's ganache,

seen here in its almost-pristine state (Charlie plucked a raspberry off the cake right after it was opened at the start of the trip).

I don't think I've had anything quite so decadent, not even Capogiro gelato. This was a melt-in-your-mouth orgasm of chocolate and whipped cream that I just let roll around on my tongue with each bite.

Some other highlights of the trip included a stop at an Italian bakery and butcher shop in Midwood (don't those cakes look spectacular? As for me, I couldn't pass up Boar's Head bologna at the price they offered at the butcher shop; it's a shame I couldn't wait 10 minutes for some of the shop's cheese and parsley sausage)...

and a "nightcap" at Nathan's Famous on Coney Island, which was somewhat forlorn at this time of year:

(Sorry I didn't get a shot of anyone eating a hot dog. I had wandered across Stilwell Avenue to get some shots of the still-under-reconstruction Stilwell Avenue-Coney Island subway terminal.)

One more highlight, which won't be posted here (because the camera shook): Anna revealing her "pizza shorts" for everyone to see in Totonno's.

Edited January 30, 2005 by KatieLoeb (log)

[slkinsey]

DiFara's

The plain cheese pizza was the best of its kind I've ever eaten, and I believe that both the mix of cheeses--aged fontina applied in slices . . . fresh mozzarella--a common ingredient on New York pizzas but rare here . . . and fresh grated Romano . . . are combined over a slightly sweet San Marzano tomato sauce.

Sounds like an awesome time was had by all. Just to clarify on the above: The cheese in slices is low moisture mozzarella (not fontina); next comes a few dabs of the fresh stuff; then comes some parmigiano (not pecorino). Di Fara is a special place for sure, and Dom is a real artisan.

For those who are interested in comparing, there is a clickable index at the top of the NY Pizza Survey thread that will take you to the various places we've visited as a group. I'll be interested especially to read reactions to L&B, which seriously underwhelmed the NY group.

[Mummer]

It was a most enjoyable trip. Di Fara has an extraordinary product. The man has made a zillion pies, yet he prepared ours with the care I'd expect he'd use for the Pope. Hand crafted, with pride. That's hard to get at any price, let alone for less than ten bucks! (My share for 4 pies and an Italian soda - $9)

Totonno's was like visiting Nana for dinner. Welcome! Great food's on! Eat! Eat! Our gang, particularly the women, liked that women were making our pies. (Pizzaiolas?) I don't recall that at any other Pizza Club stop, and I've only missed one.

I'd compare Spumoni Gardens to the Pat's and Geno's corner in South Philly. It's fun to do, and you'll enjoy what you eat, but it's more about being there than the food.

As much as I love hot dogs, it was pointless to eat at Nathan's. (Not complaining, but I couldn't eat anymore.)

edited for clarity, I hope

Edited January 30, 2005 by Mummer (log)

[KatieLoeb]

I'll be interested especially to read reactions to L&B, which seriously underwhelmed the NY group.

I think Spumoni Gardens gets the short end on PIZZA surveys because (despite the 24 ovens) it's more of an Italian restaurant that happens to serve pizza. The Sicilian (or square) pie there was an excellent example of it's type, and again, I thought the sauce was really good. But Sicilian pies are usually not everyone's favorite and I think will always come in last place after all those other lovely round, thin pies. Much like Trenton Tomato pies, the Spumoni Gardens pizza needs to be measured with a slightly different yardstick. Not exactly apples and oranges, but maybe Granny Smiths vs Red Delicious if you get my drift.

I'd happily go back to Spumoni Gardens another time for a big-assed Italian meal. All of the food I saw being served, from the sandwiches at the take out area to the family-sized platters of pasta that were each an individual serving looked and smelled amazing. Even our simple house salad was delicious, with a very tasty and lemony dressing.

[South Jersey Epicurean]

The Chocolate Velvet Ganache Torte with raspberries as well as the individual tarts/desserts we ate on the way up to Brooklyn come from Patisserie de Manille in Westmont, NJ. It is truly a fabulous bakery and they will make ANYTHING you want with ANY ingredients including totally fat-free or sugar free works of art. I have to give credit where credit is due (mango cream pie, key lime pie, coconut/macademia nut tart, chocolate/peanut torte, and mango/kiwi mouse with hazelnut cake).

That being said, I agree with all opinions on the pizza places except those grape tomotoes were very sweet in the salad at L&B Gardens.

I agree with Katie that the Sicilian which is not usually a favorite pizza needs to be on a different playing field than the other pizzas. The sauce was tremendous with a sweetness not in any sauces of the day. Some people didn't care for the "doughiness" layer in the crust, but I did.

The freshly grated parmigiano that "DAD" grated for all customers at DeFara's was a great touch (as was adding garlic powder). I loved the artichokes, porcini mushrooms and roasted red onions at DeFara's too.

It was good company, great organization, great food, and who knew you could buy "Gourmet food" so cheap in NY. (Thank you Bari's Pork Shop!!). You CAN eat cheap in NY; you just can't pay rent/ mortgages or have utilities.

Mama Totonno's loved the chocolate velvet ganache too. What a class act!!

[slkinsey]

I'll be interested especially to read reactions to L&B, which seriously underwhelmed the NY group.

I think Spumoni Gardens gets the short end on PIZZA surveys because (despite the 24 ovens) it's more of an Italian restaurant that happens to serve pizza. The Sicilian (or square) pie there was an excellent example of it's type, and again, I thought the sauce was really good.

Interesting. Our overall reaction was that L&B didn't make a particularly good example of "Sicilian" (e.g., thicker, square pizza) -- especially compared to Di Fara's square pizza, which I think is the best of that style in the City. And we weren't all that fond of the sauce (which, like their canned mushrooms, comes out of big #10 cans of "pizza sauce").

But, of course, part of this is a matter of preference. I can understand that some people are fond of L&B's undercooked doughiness (they do huge business, after all), it's just far removed from the things I personally value in a pizza.

Anyway... sounds like you guys had a great trip!

[KatieLoeb]

I'll be interested especially to read reactions to L&B, which seriously underwhelmed the NY group.

I think Spumoni Gardens gets the short end on PIZZA surveys because (despite the 24 ovens) it's more of an Italian restaurant that happens to serve pizza. The Sicilian (or square) pie there was an excellent example of it's type, and again, I thought the sauce was really good.

Interesting. Our overall reaction was that L&B didn't make a particularly good example of "Sicilian" (e.g., thicker, square pizza) -- especially compared to Di Fara's square pizza, which I think is the best of that style in the City. And we weren't all that fond of the sauce (which, like their canned mushrooms, comes out of big #10 cans of "pizza sauce").

But, of course, part of this is a matter of preference. I can understand that some people are fond of L&B's undercooked doughiness (they do huge business, after all), it's just far removed from the things I personally value in a pizza.

Anyway... sounds like you guys had a great trip!

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Sam:

I thought the DiFara's "square pie" was awesome, don't get me wrong. That thick sliced pepperoni was amazing! But to me, a "Sicilian Pizza" is not only square, but always thicker and doughier (if not undercooked) than a round pie. I thought DiFara's was merely "square", not "Sicilian", at least by the definitions I've come to understand. And perhaps it's that thick doughiness that makes it far less popular amongst true pizza-philes. Just my guess, though.

If that was canned sauce on the Spumoni Gardens pizza it was pretty damned tasty for not-from-scratch. I liked the sweetness that had a bit of acidity to back it up, not unlike a fine riesling . I maintain my original premise that the food is better at Spumoni Gardens than the pizza is. And that's merely having seen and smelled it. Are there any reports in the NY forum about the sandwiches, pastas and entrees at Spumoni Gardens? I'd be curious to see what the concensus is on that part of the menu.

We did indeed have a great trip! I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say there's some envy that those wonderful pizzas aren't as readily available to us as they are to you New Yorkers. But the invitation is still open to plan a road trip for the New York Pizza Survey to come down to Philly and we'll be happy to show you what we've got! I think if y'all got a taste of Tacconelli's or Mama Palma's there might be some jealously going that way too. And we could still meet in the "middle" in Trenton and show you folks around the Trenton pizza joints too. There was some talk of a Staten Island Pizza Club road trip in the future that the New Yorkers could meet us for as well. The more, the merrier!!

[sabg]

OMG, fresh artichokes and porcini !!! i am so sorry i missed this...

[kguetzow]

It was very nice to meet everyone, avatar free. Treated very well as a newbie, no hazing

Just a few pics from me.

Before and after of Dom

The L&B Pizza Garden of Love

[slkinsey]

. . . to me, a "Sicilian Pizza" is not only square, but always thicker and doughier (if not undercooked) than a round pie. I thought DiFara's was merely "square", not "Sicilian", at least by the definitions I've come to understand.  And perhaps it's that thick doughiness that makes it far less popular amongst true pizza-philes.

I think Di Fara's square pizza is significantly thicker than a regular pizza crust, but since we in NYC trend towards a thinner crust than the national standard, maybe it wouldn't be considered all that thick. But I think you're probably right about the "doughiness." Some people, myself included, just can't get past the underbaked crust. To illustrate what I'm talking about, here is a (not very well focused) side view of an L&B slice:

That darker area just under the sauce is a big soggy stripe of not-quite-baked-through dough. For something more in line with the real Sicilian model (sfincione, they would insist, not pizza), I like these from the Sullivan Street Bakery.

Anyway... getting away from that, did you guys notice any characteristic differences between NYC pizza and Philly pizza? You guys seemed to go much more towards ordering multiple (and therefore heavier) toppings than we usually do here.

[MarketStEl]

Anyway... getting away from that, did you guys notice any characteristic differences between NYC pizza and Philly pizza?  You guys seemed to go much more towards ordering multiple (and therefore heavier) toppings than we usually do here.

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I've already mentioned one: Fresh mozzarella is commonly used as an ingredient on the better NYC pizzas. It's much, much less common in Philly, where even many of the better places use a shredded "pizza blend."

Another difference is in toppings. There seem to be more Philly pizzerias that have taken a page from the "California Pizza Kitchen" playbook and offer a wide range of non-standard toppings on their pizzas. Artichokes and porcini mushrooms marinated in olive oil are not among the common toppings, I'll grant, but I've been in plenty of places where you can get both red and white pizzas topped with broccoli, spinach, sun-dried tomatoes, shrimp, ham and pineapple, bacon and Cheddar, BBQ chicken, and so on. Now, this may just be because I've not eaten in enough New York pizzerias yet, for one of the Philly places that has umpteen dozen toppings is an outpost of NYC's Famous Famiglia Pizza on the University of Pennsylvania campus. (It is now the lone holdout in the all-but-shuttered food court in the 3401 Walnut office/retail complex. Rumor has it that the space will become a CVS drugstore in the not-too-distant future.) You may want to review the posts on the Top Tomato/Paolo visit in last year's Pizza Club thread for more examples of unusual pizza toppings.

And, yes, there is a Philly tendency to order pizzas loaded.

[Mummer]

[Anyway... getting away from that, did you guys notice any characteristic differences between NYC pizza and Philly pizza?

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The most obvious difference was the absence of white pies in the Brooklyn places we visited.

Our local visits include basic red and white pies to taste the crust. cheeses, seasonings and red sauce without any influence from the extras.

[JanMcBaker]

My first eGullet road trip and it was great! Thanks, gang, for making my first trip such fun! Loved the people, and the pizza was FABULOUS! My favorite was DiFara's. Different tastes are still going through my head: the combination of cheeses, the smoothness of the artichokes and how well it worked on pizza ( I never had artichoke on it before, and was also afraid it would be that watery, strange acidy flavor), those wonderful, oily mushrooms, the thick cut, spicy pepperoni. Damn that was good pizza! I was truly trying to think of some way I could have brought a pie home in the van-- and I would have if I could! Even a reheated DiFara's pizza would be worth more than a lot of other places' fresh pizza.

Seeing one of the prior posts, I just assumed that one of the reasons for getting a lot of toppings was so we could taste a lot of toppings without having to get a lot of pies.

Spumoni Gardens was nice, but I'm just not a big fan of Sicilian pizza in the first place. However, the salad with that lemony dressing was great! And a nice break among the pizzas.

By the time we got to Tottono's I think I was bordering on pizza overload so it was kind of difficult to really appreciate it as much as I think I would if we had had it earlier in the day. However, it was good-- loved the sausage, onion and mushroom one. And I found that I'm still not a fan of anchovy pizza. However, in this case the anchovy wasn't as salty as others I've had, but it tasted more fishy to me. Rather disconcerting to me on a pizza, and a bit unsettling to a rather full tummy. Yes, I know- I was also one of the ones who got a hotdog at Nathan's a little while later, AFTER ganache!

All in all though it was a great experience! Thanks again to everyone, and hope to see you again soon!

[Lisa1349]

It was great to meet Kurt, Janet and Kathy, hopefully you can join us on out local jaunts, too. I now realize Kurt's avatar must be his 5 yr old with Korean BBQ on her face? I also forgot special thanks to Katie for fabulous wine donation. Did I mention Janet's great cookies? Anyone get a pic?

I like to investigate the pizza toppings places are using. For example, I was thrilled at DiFara's when the peppers were Cubanelle, green italian frying peppers. At Totonno's, they were roasted reds. It was a bit odd that the mushrooms at DiFara's were steamed and added after it came out of the oven. I might have liked them roasted.

It's interesting that Mr. DeMarco doesn't shred his low moisture mozz, it might make the top a bit less wet, giving everything more surface area to evaporate liquids. But hey, he's the one making God knows how many pies a week, not me.

Pics and avatars don't seem to be working at the moment, I'm interested to see the Sicilian at Sullivan St. Bakery from Sam. I don't preach that L&B is the best pie ever, but it is unlike most others in BKLYN and I like it. Ours on Saturday had the most char I've ever seen from them, however.

Gary's ganache went wonderfully with the Brooklyn Brown ale I was drinking at Totonno's. This was also my first anchovy pizza ever! I wouldn't have enjoyed it without the garlic.

Edited January 31, 2005 by Lisa1349 (log)