Making Vinegar

[billyhill]

I want to make vinegar! Any pointers or tips? Is there a source for bacteria starter or do I need to sample my local environ and try to find some friendly neighborhood culture? I apologize for my ignorance, my search powers have failed me beyond "set it out and see if it turns into vinegar".

[Kerry Beal]

I want to make vinegar! Any pointers or tips? Is there a source for bacteria starter or do I need to sample my local environ and try to find some friendly neighborhood culture? I apologize for my ignorance, my search powers have failed me beyond "set it out and see if it turns into vinegar".

←

I go to a store with some 'natural' vinegars, look for a bottle with some filmy stuff on top of the vinegar (mother), add that to your wine - and away you go.

[andiesenji]

You might find it helpful to read through this topic there is a lot of good information.

You can buy very good vinegar "mothers" at many internet vendors.

I use large containers with a spigot at the bottom, which makes it easier to draw off the vinegar without disturbing the mother, which floats on top. However, you can use any container that allows you to use a screen or cloth to cover the top so to avoid an infestation of vinegar flies (similar to a fruit fly.)

[billyhill]

Thank you for the information. I have some leg work to do, anyone else?

[Duck Fat]

I bought a mother on ebay for 4.99.

But if you use a jug with a spigot, whatever you do BE SURE YOU ONLY USE AN ALL-PLASTIC SPIGOT!!!

After a few months, many dregs of some great wines, and almost a solid gallon of what smelled like terrific vinegar, I discovered that the vinegar had dissolved the stem of the spigot to aluminum-foil thickness. It also completely dissolved the entire nut that held the spigot to the inside of the jug.

The result was a a metallic tasting product that had to go down the drain

[nibor]

The Russ Parsons LA Times article I cited in a previous post (Russ Parsons on Acid) inspired me to make my own vinegar. I just bought 2 bottles of hearty red wine and a small bottle of raw, unpasteurized vinegar. I still need to acquire an appropriate container, cheesecloth, and some patience.

But I hesitate. I have a question: Is this going to stink up my house?

Edited February 21, 2009 by nibor (log)

[Abra]

Oh no, not at all. You can be standing right next to a vinegar crock and have no idea it's even there.

I've been sad all year because after I repatriated my mother to her original home, France, she croaked. After all those years in America, reportedly more than 40, a return to the old country proved too much for her. Or maybe it was the plane trip. In any case I'm starting over, although I haven't produced anything usable yet. The vinegar I started with I got from a nearby winery, and lo and behold, it has that acetone smell that I never encountered with my original mother. I'm just trying to wait it out, hoping for the best, but I'm still in mourning for my dear old mother.

[nibor]

Oh no, not at all.  You can be standing right next to a vinegar crock and have no idea it's even there.

I've been sad all year because after I repatriated my mother to her original home, France, she croaked.  After all those years in America, reportedly more than 40, a return to the old country proved too much for her.  Or maybe it was the plane trip.  In any case I'm starting over, although I haven't produced anything usable yet.  The vinegar I started with I got from a nearby winery, and lo and behold, it has that acetone smell that I never encountered with my original mother.  I'm just trying to wait it out, hoping for the best, but I'm still in mourning for my dear old mother.

←

Thanks Abra. I will give it a go. Sorry about your "mom".

[MikeHartnett]

A question: in the Russ Parsons article above, it mentions that white vinegars are difficult to sustain because of oxidation. Could somebody verify that this is the case (and it is actually difficult to do), and if so, how it is prevented in commercial settings?

[Catherine Iino]

BUMP!

I've been making vinegar for a few years now, following Abra's instructions and others. All was going swimmingly until about a year ago, when things just went sour. Alright, enough of that. But seriously, I was producing jar after jar of vinegar, and giving mothers away, until things just sort of stopped. No mother would form. I thought I might have starved it for oxygen, so I got a descendant of the original mother and started again. Now I have a crock of good smelling and tasting vinegar, but it is completely cloudy. I've tried running it through coffee filters, and they just clog up right away. So, I'm going to start again. My question is, is the sludgy vinegar safe to use? And does anyone know what might cause that? Thanks.

[RobertCollins]

I'm only guessing but I wonder if it isn't more of the aceto bacteria that haven't formed a mat yet. You haven't said how long this run has been going.

Safe, I would think that it isn't poison just because you said "good smelling and tasting vinegar".

Good Luck

[Catherine Iino]

It did form one mat; I think it should have formed more in the many months it was brewing. So I don't think loose bacteria is the problem. I did make salad dressing for ten people out of it, and I don't think anyone was the worse for it.

[EsaK]

Bumping up an old thread. I just got a bunch of apple and pear ciders that I don't think I will drink. I started thinking that I'd like to try and make vinegar out of some cans. I read a bunch of things and feel puzzled. Ideas In Food's Aki & Alex are saying (http://blog.ideasinfood.com/ideas_in_food/2013/01/cider-vinegar.html) that just leaving the cider exposed to air would produce apple cider vinegar (I have no idea if their cider is similar enough to what I have).

 

The ciders (Finnish) I have contain a) apple wine, apple juice concentrate, carbon dioxide, apple flavourants (and sulphite), b) apple wine juice, apple juice concentrate, carbon dioxide, acidity regulator, flavours, preservatives (potassium sorbate, sodium disulphite), sweeteners, colours. Could someone be so kind and give some instructions as to how I could try turn these into vinegars?

[Martin Fisher]

Couple things:

First, I wouldn't waste time on anything that contains preservatives. 

Second, you need alcohol to produce vinegar. Sugar is converted to alcohol during the first fermentation and the alcohol to acetic acid (vinegar) during the second.

[EsaK]

18 minutes ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

Couple things:

First, I wouldn't waste time on anything that contains preservatives. 

Second, you need alcohol to produce vinegar. Sugar is converted to alcohol during the first fermentation and the alcohol to acetic acid (vinegar) during the second.

 

So you wouldn't use even the first one that according to the ingredient list contains just sulphites (which I think are preservatives in there)? The cider's have 4.7% alcohol in them so I guess that's covered. And quite a bit of suagar in there as well. 

[Martin Fisher]

Certainly not ideal but worth a try if you don't intend to use the cider in another way.

[EsaK]

8 minutes ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

Certainly not ideal but worth a try if you don't intend to use the cider in another way.

 

And how would you recommend trying if I may ask? Put the cider in a glass jar (for a week, two weeks?) with a cheesecloth on top, in 27-30°C room temp (it's very hot in our apartment during summer) and wait? Something I'm missing, something to notice? Many thanks for your responses!

[Martin Fisher]

That may be enough to work, but it best to use mother....especially with the preservatives present.

It should smell of vinegar within a week or two.

[Catherine Iino]

In the last few months, after a couple of years of vinegar failure, I've gotten up and cranking again. I used some Bragg's apple cider vinegar, which boasts that it contains a mother, and started both apple cider vinegar with cider from our trees, and wine vinegar. I'd try adding a cup or so of the Bragg's--or other unpasteurized vinegar--to your cider. I put in in a fairly wide-mouthed jar, cover it with a Mr. Coffee-style coffee filter held tight by a rubber band, and put it in a dark place. I'd say it took about a month to get a visible mother, but the speed seems to depend partly on temperature. If a lot of your liquid is evaporating, I would add a bit of water. One theory I have about my earlier failures is that the wine got too concentrated. Might not be a problem with your comparatively low level of alcohol, though.

[andiesenji]

I agree with Catherine.  Buy some Bragg's  it has a great vinegar "mother" which will convert any fruit juice to vinegar.

It takes time but you can produce some fantastic vinegars but everything you start with has to be sterilized.

Use glass or vitrified china - or the plastic containers intended for the purpose. 

NO METAL!  and glazed crockery often has microscopic cracks that the vinegar will penetrate and you will find a little or a lot of moisture under it - I speak from experience, having bought a "vinegar jar" with a tap at the bottom and fortunately had it on a tray on a shelf in my pantry because it oozed vinegar.  

 

I use more red wine vine vinegar than the others so it is in a 3 gallon container.  I can't drink alcohol (allergic) but I have wine-fancier friends who won't drink "leftover" red wines so bring me the "remains" and I make vinegar - they get a supply in return.  

If it is made and stored properly, the "mother" floats at the top of the vinegar and the clear stuff can be drawn off at the bottom with no need to strain it.  I just drew off this glass.

This one is very tasty and diluted and sweetened or mixed with fruit juice, can be served over ice makes a very refreshing summer drink.  

And when diluted and sweetened, it can also be carbonated.

 

 

[EsaK]

My apple cider has been in its jar for about a month now, and some days ago I purchased apple vinegar from the store (not organic, didn't think it had a mother of any kind really). The cider hadn't really changed much as far as I could see, so I decided to put some of the apple vinegar in with it. Well, didn't take long until something happened.

 

Now I'm very unsure if what I have is good or bad. Hopefully the thing can be seen from the pictures. It's a white/opaque "disk" that floats on top. Is that what I want to see, or is it some sort of bad mold? 

Edited June 26, 2016 by EsaK
Added a better picture. (log)

[Martin Fisher]

Sure looks like mother of vinegar — that's what you want to see.

 

[Catherine Iino]

Yes, that's perfect. The disk will fall to the bottom and a new one will grow. You can take it out and add it to another batch of cider or wine. Congratulations, you are a grandparent!

 

[EsaK]

Somewhere in the earlier pages it was asked how could a vinegar mother be "stored", and I didn't see any thoughts on it. F.e. I have wine or fruit juices very rarely under normal circumstances, but I would hate to give up my vinegar mother. So if I want to avoid having it sit in some, say apple cider vinegar, for too long (to not make it turn watery), and avoid killing the mother, is there any way to store it? I can dry a sourdough starter and then get back to it later, but how could I store a vinegar mother to preserve it? First thought that came to mind was covering it with 10% white vinegar, don't know if that's a good or bad idea. Please help  

[joancassell]

If you drink wine with dinner, you might consider making your own red wine vinegar.  You need to get some vinegar mother (I suspect it's available on the Internet) and then just pour leftover red wine into a bottle with the mother.  Takes time, but the results are delicious, and it's satisfying to make and use your own.