Do you like LUCAI(SHANDONG FOODS)?

william huang · May 11, 2004

:biggrin: May I introduce myself?I'm come from Shandong qingdao,accidentaly I entre the website, so I was attracted by the web. I'm very happy that there are many people here like Chinese foods.

I also like help for everybody like Chinese food, I am not good at English, please bear with my poor English,but I think I will do my best further.

Are there anyone have come qingdao China?Do you konw qingdao or Qingdao beer?

Pan · May 11, 2004

Welcome, William!

There was an ESL teacher who went by the moniker of chaste_nosferatu and used to grace us with his presence. I had the false memory that he was in Shandong, but actually, he was in Anhui near the North Korean border. He discussed what the local foods in that area were like in this thread (just click on the red text).

Qingdao Beer is famous worldwide, but I'm pretty unfamiliar with Shandong-style foods. What are some local specialties?

jo-mel · May 11, 2004

Huang Ying, William! Ni Hao!

One of my disapointments is that I never got to Shandong Province. I would have dearly loved to have visited Qufu, and experienced Kong Mansion food.

We all know of and respect Qingdao beer. It is very popular here in the West.

What foods do you usually eat?

Jake · May 11, 2004

Welcome William!

Please tell us a little about your life and your favourite foods in China.

Gary Soup · May 11, 2004

I had the false memory that he was in Shandong, but actually, he was in Anhui near the North Korean border.

Pan, you need a new map!

Maybe he was from Dandong (Liaoning)? That at least rhymes with Shandong.

Gary Soup · May 11, 2004

May I introduce myself?I'm come from Shandong qingdao,accidentaly I entre the website, so I was attracted by the web. I'm very happy that there are many people here like Chinese foods.
I also like help for everybody like Chinese food, I am not good at English, please bear with my poor English,but I think I will do my best further.
Are there anyone have come qingdao China?Do you konw qingdao or Qingdao beer?

Welcome, William!

Haven't been to Qingdao, but I spend a lot of time in Shanghai and the Jiangnan region.

My wife can make excellent Shandong-style jiaozi. She learned it from a Shandongren neighbor.

Have they taken care of the Lunkow xifen problem?

chengb02 · May 11, 2004

yes, and perhaps Pan's friend is confusing Anhui with Anshan? Just a guess...Welcome William, its good to have people actually in China joining this forum (I, myself, will be back in China very soon). I absolutely love Qingdao and have made a few trips there (and look forward to one next month). In my youth I remember trips to Beidaihe, but nowadays its not worth it. Qingdao offers beautiful beaches and unbelievably clean air, and some great seafood restaurants. The German influence can't really be found in the food, but it can be seen in the architecture and, of course, the beer. Haha, I feel it a must that I should mention that Harbin actually has the oldest brewery in China, dating back to 1900, whereas Qingdao started in 1903.

Pan · May 12, 2004

I had the false memory that he was in Shandong, but actually, he was in Anhui near the North Korean border.
Pan, you need a new map!

No, not a new map. I'm actually quite a geography buff and in fact one of my 15 or so atlases is an Atlas of China. He might have said he had previously lived in Shandong. Otherwise, it was just a false memory.

william huang · May 12, 2004

One of my disapointments is that I never got to Shandong Province. I would have dearly loved to have visited Qufu, and experienced Kong Mansion food.

Yes, the Kong Mansion food made at Qufu is quite famous. It is little different to Shandong style foods,because it use a lot of taste from royalty.

In fact I didnot often eat the real Shandong-style foods,maybe my mother made food just is real Shandong-style food. :wink:

william huang · May 12, 2004

Welcome William!
Please tell us a little about your life and your favourite foods in China.

My life?Isn't a secret in west? Well, I am a staffer in a trading co.,I have graduated last year. I hate the trade that didnot create any worth, but it's life,you have to do it. So I do my best to do my favourite.

My favourite is sweet-and-sour tenderloin,do you know it?Made by vinegar and sugar and tomato paste and fried tenderloin.I think I am a carnivore.

Mabelline · May 12, 2004

Welcome! I hope we can learn things about each other's cultures. Enjoy!

jo-mel · May 12, 2004

Yes, the Kong Mansion food made at Qufu is quite famous. It is little different to Shandong style foods,because it use a lot of taste from royalty.
In fact I didnot often eat the real Shandong-style foods,maybe my mother made food just is real Shandong-style food.

William -- what is a typical Shandong meal that your Mother would have served?

Do you follow a recipe for that Sweet/Sour Tenderloin? I find it interesting that you mention 'tomato paste'. Is that the real thick one, or the thinner saucy one?

Mayhaw Man · May 12, 2004

I think I am a carnivore.

Welcome to eGullet William!

I also think that I am a carnivore. :laugh:

The tomato paste that you mentioned-is it thick or is it thin like crushed, pureed tomatoes?

What kind of beef (which part of the cow) would you use for this dish?

Suzanne F · May 12, 2004

William, welcome! Do not worry about your English. (Some of us are still getting used to pinyin.)

This is going to be a very good trade, between you and us: you get to practice your English, and we get to learn more about Chinese food. Yes, many many people all over the world love it! And here, we want to know how it is made in China, not just by Chinese who adapt the recipes to other tastes.

And yes, we have many carnivores here, too. But also vegetarians -- we just like FOOD! :wub:

Gary Soup · May 12, 2004

The tomato paste that you mentioned-is it thick or is it thin like crushed, pureed tomatoes?
What kind of beef (which part of the cow) would you use for this dish?

It's most likely pork. In other words, he's talking about sweet and sour pork, Shandong style. :wink:

For the tomato paste, I'm guessing ketchup. That's what my wife would use. :laugh:

I'm a carni-bore too, but with the many things my wife does with tofu in all its forms, could become a vegetarian in a pinch. Tofu is also a Shandong specialty.

jo-mel · May 12, 2004

Gary -- I kinda figured it would be some sort of sauce -- xihongjiang / fanqiejiang / fanqiezhi. Even ketchup can carry these names. As we all know, the word 'paste' and 'sauce' is interchangeable in other things like 'brown bean sauce/paste. We get a mindset on things. I see 'tomato paste' -- I immediately see short tube can. LOL!

William -- I'm so delighted that you have joined in with us! I'm having a renewed interest in food from your area of China, now.

As Suzanne said --- you can get some practice in English and we can brush up on our pinyin.

Do you eat much Western food?

Sleepy_Dragon · May 13, 2004

Hi William, welcome to egullet.

I've been wanting to learn more about Shandong food ever since I saw Dream Cuisine, a movie about Sato Hatsue, a Japanese woman who became a Shandong certified chef during her time in China, and paradoxically is now one of the few chefs alive who still cooks it the traditional way. The movie is about the life of her and her husband running a small Shandong restaurant in Japan, as well as her attempt to find a long lost friend by returning to China, and her experiences running up against the official Shandong cooking school which is trying to change the old recipes in order to adapt to new tastes.

She mentioned in the movie that she has around 1,500 recipes committed to memory, and plans to publish a cookbook, but I've not seen any sign of it yet. Hope she manages to finish it.

Dream Cuisine played the indie film circuit in the US and other countries, if it's playing near any of you, do go see it, though IMO be warned there is a lot of "art shot" cinematography in it (read: lots of shots of traffic at night which drag down the length of the movie) which I wish had been edited out.

Anyway, I'd love to hear more about Shandong food too, so please keep posting. :smile:

edited for typos

Pat

Edited May 13, 2004 by Sleepy_Dragon (log)

Gary Soup · May 13, 2004

I've been wanting to learn more about Shandong food ever since I saw Dream Cuisine, a movie about Sato Hatsue, a Japanese woman who became a Shandong certified chef during her time in China, and paradoxically is now one of the few chefs alive who still cooks it the traditional way.

The movie seemed excessively long because it was actually a director's cut for a TV documentary, but I liked the "verite" approach.

I had mixed feelings about the culinary clashes, and found it colored a bit by Japanese chauvinism (from an ex-pat Chinese director yet!) but admired Li's choice of an old Zhou Xuan song as a musical theme. (It worked for Wong Kar-Wai, too, in In the Mood for Love.)

Incidentally, you can find the "theme" song for Dream Cuisine among the files on my Zhou Xuan page (third song down).

Historical Zhou Xuan Recordings

Sleepy_Dragon · May 13, 2004

Huh, I didn't think it was chauvinistic at all, and took it on face value; here was an important story to be told that adds another facet of much needed humanity, and I'm glad somebody told it. I think changing any of it that could have been interpreted as Japanese chauvinism (and I don't see what in this movie qualifies for that) would have meant propagandizing it via historical whitewash of individual experience.

In any event, here's hoping she gets that cookbook printed.

Pat

Edited May 13, 2004 by Sleepy_Dragon (log)

william huang · May 13, 2004

William -- what is a typical Shandong meal that your Mother would have served?
Do you follow a recipe for that Sweet/Sour Tenderloin? I find it interesting that you mention 'tomato paste'. Is that the real thick one, or the thinner saucy one?

I think it is thick one, and the meat are not used cow,it is used pork.

thanks for everyone like Chinese foods here, I trust I can meet many friends in the forum

Pan · May 13, 2004

William, when I was in Beijing, it seemed like beer was served more often than tea in restaurants. I'm guessing that in Qingdao, that might also be the case. (In the general area of Shanghai, it was much more common to be served tea in a restaurant.) Do most people drink beer with meals in restaurants (and how about at home)?

Also, do people eat rice or noodles more often? Are noodle soups common in Shandong? Are jiaozi common?

By the way, I was in China in 1987, so I'm aware that many things have changed since then.

Gary Soup · May 13, 2004

Huh, I didn't think it was chauvinistic at all, and took it on face value; here was an important story to be told that adds another facet of much needed humanity, and I'm glad somebody told it.

Not to belabor the point, but it seemed to be NHK's inclination to color this Japanese woman as nothing less than the would-be savior of a national cuisine (China's). The recognition Sato got from the Chinese Government was more for contributions along historical/folkloric lines than for her "mission", though I doubt the "folks" in Shandong ever cooked the way she preaches. (No sugar? No fat? Tell that to anyone in Shandong who likes to eat.)

Sleepy_Dragon · May 14, 2004

Well, where you see "would-be savior", I see a significant story between how she learned Shandong cuisine, and where it is now. Doesn't mean a cuisine is never allowed to change, or that Mrs. Sato is the final word on it, but there's a difference between evolution with a root to the past, and change for the sake of following trends and novelty for ever decreasing attention spans. Note carefully here that I have no idea whether or not the latter is what is really happening, but it's not something that should be taken lightly or without dialogue between past and present. Especially considering how the concepts of new and modern would have developed after something like the Cultural Revolution, and what the price was to embrace them, in both memory and humanity. I think the things we're attracted to and the things we devalue or otherwise forget reflect what kind of people we are, as well as point to what our fates will be.

It's something of the past that should be documented for all to learn from, before it disappears, much like all the other destruction depicted in the movie.

I hope she gets her school established, and I hope she gets many students. Then from there we can see what the next generation of chefs will do to take the cuisine in other directions along with an understanding of links to the past.

At any rate, people know what the name of the movie is, and can make up their own minds about it should it play in their neck of the woods.

Pat

kangarool · May 14, 2004

My wife can make excellent Shandong-style jiaozi. She learned it from a Shandongren neighbor.

Gary, would you (your wife, rather) possibly be willing to share the recipe? I understand if she'd prefer not to divulge a secret, though...

I've been disappointed with the jiaozi I've made myself, compared with those I find from restaurants, and am curious how/if Shandong style differ from those I know. Plus, I am always looking for tips that might help me get them closer to those I love. I think it's probably most to do with the minced pork I generally use... I've bought it, already minced, and usually from Safeway-calibre supermarkets, so I'm sure that pork is more bland and overly lean, compared to the pork used in the tastier ones.

There's a wintry weekend forecast, so I've already planned to crank up a fire in the fireplace and introduce my daughter to dumpling making.

Gary Soup · May 14, 2004

My wife can make excellent Shandong-style jiaozi. She learned it from a Shandongren neighbor.
Gary, would you (your wife, rather) possibly be willing to share the recipe? I understand if she'd prefer not to divulge a secret, though...

I can't get her to talk about it. Not that she sees it as a "trade secret" or anything, just that she seems to disdain articulating what she does when she cooks. She never uses fixed recipes (and won't touch a cookbook), she "Just Does It" as the commercial goes, and varies the recipe at whim.

She does use lean pork loin, though, but minces it herself with a cleaver. I'm sure the texture has something to do with it. Lately she's been adding a small amount of shrimp, too, along with the usual suspects (no water chestnuts, though, like some recipes call for). Her "veggie" version (for the women of the house, LOL) is mostly jiu cai, a.k.a. garlic chives. They mostly make me belch. Next time I'll look over her shoulder, she doesn't mind that.

I don't know how old your daughter is, but the wrapping will probably the fun part for her to try.

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