Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

Sign in to follow this  
nightscotsman

CIA's New "Baking and Pastry" Book

Recommended Posts

I was just nosing around Amazon and noticed that the CIA has come out with a new professional book "Baking and Pastry: Mastering the Art and Craft". Just published on March 1, 2004 and I haven't seen it in stores yet, so I was just wondering if anyone had heard anything or flipped through it to see what the deal is - Must have reference with best of class recipes, or dated, middle of the road stuff that's covered everywhere else already?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Neil,

I just got my copy, had to have it since I graduated from there and just really want to know what they are teaching the students. Not half bad, but not awesome by any means.

I also just got "Creative Cakes and Compositions in Pastry" by Heidel...that I must say is great but a few ingredients I cant figure out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brian if you have a moment can you give more details on those books? I didn't realize you were a CIA grad. cool!

Any reccomendations from the book? Are you actually using any of those recipes? Like.....what's good work in it..............

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe one of you would like to review it for TDG??? I do not feel qualified.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Othafa9   

I did'nt like the way it was set up, its got all the baking science info at the beginning, then each chapter is pretty much just recipes. Ideally I'd rather have a chapter on say....ice creams, talk about the science of it, then give some recipes. Also, they never mention Pate Sucree anywhere in the book, instead they have "321 Cookie Dough" or something like that, I didn't look at it that close, so I'm not sure if its the same thing or not, probably is, but I'd rather have the classic version.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brian if you have a moment can you give more details on those books? I didn't realize you were a CIA grad. cool!

Any reccomendations from the book? Are you actually using any of those recipes? Like.....what's good work in it..............

Yeah Bri, I would too love to hear more about the Creative Compositions book. :biggrin:

It is on my list of books to consider getting, but I am always weary of books that I can't see for myself in a local bookstore. You are the first person to speak of it, so your opinion on this book ( heck, your opinion on ANYTHING pastry! :smile:) will always be considered valuable to me.

The insight given on other books that I have considered purchasing but am unable to look at myself in my hands, ( By Bau, Balaguer, etc.. ) is always appreciated - especially with the price that they go for. :laugh:

Thanks again,

Jason

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a chance to see it at a "pre" publish viewing, and thought that it was pretty good compared to the things explained in my school textbook "Professional Baking" by Wayne Gisslen. As much as a like "Professional Baking," I liked to format of the recipes in the CIA book and the CIA book goes more into depth in certain areas . . such as sugar and chocolate work. (some of the recipes in Gisslen arent very good either)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems to be the same course overview given when I attended in 91. I assume that it will their teaching text. I ahvent had the chance to really disect it but it did bring back memeories. I have an apprentice at my shop who is starting the baking pastryprogram @ CIA in september. I told him to get real familiar with the text. As I work it some more I'll update you guys.

I love the Heidel book, real informative and great German Pastry Chef ( I was taught by some really talented German pastry Chefs....not given as much respect as the French, but just as hard working and knowledgeable)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was a bad girl yesterday and bought the CIA book. I was pretty supprised it was at my local book store............and well, typical me, I just had to have it.

It's very different upon first glance in that there really aren't that many recipes compared to similar books. I was busy last night and didn't get a real chance to study it, but I didn't notice any note to make variations on the base recipe.

I'd LOVE your reviews of any of the recipes?!

They generally look very simple, very sparse in ingredients: this makes me a little nervous-plus wheres the photos? One recipe per page, written very cleanly broken into percentages too! That is a nice look. But the simplicity makes me very nervous....., they don't seem to do anything special, totally the basics, tell me it's alright-that the recipes are really good?

I actually have had several sucesses with Gisslens book, more so then from any similar high volume teaching text. I'm wondering specificly what you didn't like lepatissier? Help me stear clear of those, please?

I ditto your opinion of German bakers Brian! They're recipes are sometimes sort of heavier then the French but I really like them (maybe cause I'm German, I don't know, I've never been there, but I like really "rich" items) they don't take a back seat to the French in my opinion. It's different then French, but your right it does deserve more respect and comment.

Can you detail what you like in the composition book? Is it the look of the finished work, the components-is anything unique, what makes it interesting?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The compositions book gears towrads production, freezing etc... molding and unmolding just a really nice clean approach

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gibfalc   

I teach Culinary School and I think the new CIA book is quite refreshing. The book is layed out in a way that is easy to follow and contains enough good recipes to amply cover each area of study. I have tried 5 or 6 of the recipes and they seemed to be right on. The fact that there are no variations of the recipe is part of what I like about it. Too many students get confused when they have to go back to the original recipe and change 2 or 3 items.I know some of the items might be outdated but compared to Professional Baking this book is miles ahead. I particularly like the Chapter on Chocolates and Confections. It covers a variety of recipes and contains much more information than any book in its category. The chapter on Décor, basically sugar, chocolate and wedding cakes all rolled into one, although somewhat limited, does cover more than enough information than is needed in an introductory pastry class. Remember this is a school textbook. Is this a book that I might buy if I were a Restaurant Pastry Chef? No. But when compared to other textbooks it is by far my favorite. I have been teaching from Professional Baking for over two years and I wish I could switch to this book tomorrow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad you joined us gibfalc! Where do you teach? We have other teachers that participate here too, I hope you'll find interesting.

Do you have input as to which book your school uses? Your post made me think about how hard it must be to teach. It supprised me that you didn't want variations listed......but if makes sense if confuses students.

So mainly you like the CIA's teaching style? But this pro bought the book (can you ever own enough? NO I don't think so), so any chance you could mention which recipes you've baked and liked specificly? Is there any recipe I might want to add to my file that's better then average? Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome gibfalc!

I was wondering how the technical/scientific info is in the new CIA book? Is it as good or better than McGee's "On Food and Cooking"? That was actually one of our textbooks in school and I found it very helpful, though the I wish there was more pastry specific content, especially on chocolate and tempering.

Oh, and how are the ice cream and sorbet recipes? Do they use stablizers, emulsifiers, and powdered glucose with scientifically based formulas, or are they more traditional?


Edited by nightscotsman (log)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gibfalc   

I actually am not that sure what the CIA teaching style is. I have taught in 2 Culinary Schools at different times during my career and CIA was not one of them. You should know that I was really comparing the book to what I have used in the past before. When getting an associates degree in Culinary Baking and Pastry is just one small part of what you study. I was relating the book to an introductory Baking and Pastry Course. Pastry is just a small part of getting a culinary degree. Many of the students go on to other specific areas of culinary arts. Unfortunately most students do not specialize in pastry. If you go on to be a line cook or a hot food chef for example what you will learn about pastry in school is enough to give you a solid basic skill set. There is no real specialization. We do have an advanced Baking and Pastry program that is much more in depth. This book would not be good for that class. Because of the accreditation needed to grant a degree most schools have to follow the same criteria. When I went to culinary school I remember sharing notes with a friend who had just graduated from CIA. We might as well been in the same class, our notes were almost identical. As for specific recipe reviews I’ll wait until I find one that is special. As for the technical aspect of this book it is somewhat limited but does cover the topics it must. Usually the chef will elaborate on the rest. There is a fairly new book out called How Baking Works: Exploring the Fundamentals of Baking Science that is probably worth a look. As for the sorbet and ice cream recipes they are pretty much straight forward. Not a lot of balancing going on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello all,

Went to my local Borders bookstore and saw that they had the New CIA book. Took a quick glance inside and was impressed, very much lile "Professional Baking" by Gisslen.

I also happened to see a copy of "Professional Baking " by Gisslen, although it looked different to me. I have a copy at home , but could not remember what edition it was. When I went home, I saw that I have the 3rd edition, and the one in the store was the 4th edition, so this means a new book.

I will try to get back there to see if there is any new stuff in the 4th edition, although it looked pretty similar to the 3rd edition. ( I know Bo Friberg's editions of his " Professional Pastry Chef" are like that, with very little "new" stuff compared to the previuos edition)

It would seem to me that putting out 2 books that are very similar in purpose

( The CIA's and Gisslens ) would be hurting both, but maybe some competition is good. I haven't worked much from my edition of " Professional Baking', but the CIA book looks a little more of interest to me. ( although I have no intent of purchasing, it does look good for someone who is starting out or thinking about getting into Baking and Pastry.

Bye for now,

Jason

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a professional baker so with that in mind....I scouted a copy of this at the bookstore a week ago, and it does look like a good textbook--lots of recipes but limited introductions and background--presumably the teachers would be expected to give more details on that. But I was surprised to find things like the guide to equipment that just mentioned what the item was and what it was supposed to do--without any guidance to choosing your own: no mention of what variations in composition or design make one tool superior to another. But the food safety section was very impressive, as befits a professional text, and I was impressed by the variety of formulas offered.

It looks like a good textbook and reference guide but not a substitute for a good teacher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
McDuff   
There is a fairly new book out called How Baking Works: Exploring the Fundamentals of Baking Science that is probably worth a look.

Lucky me....I had Paula Figoni for classroom instructor for Baking Formula Technology. How could you not be irresistibly drawn to someone who described a picture of a test muffin as "perky." She must be the rising star of the food scientist circle, as she has appeared in a sidebar in Cook's Illustrated. I had to take the class to get an A.A.S. in baking and pastry arts and I found it to be invaluable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gibfalc   

I would love to know where you had this class and what specific topics you covered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
McDuff   

I took the class at Johnson and Wales in Providence. Basically we took each major baking ingredient and dissected it in the classroom and then did an experiment with it in a bakeshop lab. Things like hypothesizing how you could replace sugar in a cake with invert sugar and what you might expect when it was baked. Or changing a leavening, or how much gelatin was needed to stabilize whipped cream. I've got a whole three ring binder full of that stuff, and my guess is that her book is based upon the class notes we took. She's also published a bunch of articles in Chef Magazine with Martha Crawford.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gibfalc   

Thanks for the reply. The class sounds very interesting and I’m sure invaluable for any baking and Pastry students. If you don’t mind telling me, how long was the class and how far into your Baking and Pastry program did you take it? Was this a mandatory class or was it an elective? I would love to get a class like that going at my school.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ladycake   

I too am interested in that course! Only that I could teach such a course (I would need a lot of info before hand, preferably in the form of a class like you describe.

My textbook has been the Gisslen book until recently when we had to revamp our courses due to accreditation. Now I am using On Cooking and hoping soon to be using the On Baking book. I do have the CIA book and have done several things out of it. In fact the hit of our ACF dinner competition last year was the page 680 Grapefruit Mousse with Sauternes Cream and our Christmas party guests especially enjoyed the page 716 Pasion Fruit Truffles. Keep in mind that my students are only here 12 weeks, so their expertise is not great or accomplished. These were quite easy to prepare.

I think the book is good, although the critique above is accurate. The Professional Baking has more than one recipe that is less than good. I just try to work around them and I give my students a substantial packet of handouts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
McDuff   
I too am interested in that course!  Only that I could teach such a course (I would need a lot of info before hand, preferably in the form of a class like you describe.

Well, you're little bit sol right now. I just typed a reply with the course outline and objectives, then my big fat fingers did something stupid on the keyboard, and I lost it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I own the new pastry book, and it's okay. There are a lot of recipes in it that are messed up... ingredients are not what or where they should be, stuff doesn't make sense, etc...

It's a first edition and that's the problem. The layout is nice, the pix are great (my pastry chef fiancee is in several of the pix because she was a teaching fellow during the making of the book!!!).

I love the CIA, had a wonderful time there and everything, but I would reccomend waiting until the next edition comes out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • By Chris Hennes
      I just got a copy of Grace Young's "Stir-Frying to the Sky's Edge"—I enjoyed cooking from "Breath of a Wok" and wanted to continue on that path. Does anyone else have this book? Have you cooked anything from it?

      Here was dinner tonight:

      Spicy Dry-Fried Beef (p. 70)

      I undercooked the beef just a bit due to a waning propane supply (I use an outdoor propane-powered wok burner), but there's nothing to complain about here. It's a relatively mild dish that lets the flavors of the ingredients (and the wok) speak. Overall I liked it, at will probably make it again (hopefully with a full tank of gas).


    • By Kitchenista
      At this time of year when you can hoard fresh, local strawberries because they are so abundant, why not freeze them and enjoy them all year long. Then you won't have to buy tasteless, fake looking ones in the dead of winter!

      The best way to preserve them, sugar-free, and have them fresh, year-round is to freeze them. Remember to start with the freshest strawberries possible. Strawberries start to lose freshness and nutrients quickly and will only last a few days in the fridge, so the sooner you freeze them the better. Follow these steps and they will last up to a year in the freezer:
      1. Gently wash them and pat them dry or allow them to air dry for an hour or so. Slice off the tops, including the stem and any white area, then cut them in half lengthwise.
      2. Line one or more rimmed baking sheets (depending on how many berries you have) with parchment or SilPats. Arrange them in a single layer on the sheets. and place them, uncovered, or loosely covered with plastic wrap in the freezer. Allow them to freeze solid, about 12 hours. Once frozen, transfer the berries (they may stick to the parchment a bit, but peel off relatively easy) to a freezer weight plastic zipper bag. Press out as much of the air from the bag as possible before sealing, to minimize freezer burn over time. If you are planning to leave them in the freezer for months, then consider double bagging them. Place the bagged berries in the freezer, where they will keep for up to one year.
      Note: I will warn you that the thawed berries will not be firm and bright like they were when raw and fresh. They tend to thaw out a bit mushier, and slightly darker…but can still be used for anything you would use fresh strawberries for. For smoothies, use frozen.
      Optional: Brushing the berries with a bit of lemon juice before you freeze them will help to preserve their color. While strawberries can be frozen whole, cut or crushed, they will retain a higher level of their vitamin C content if left whole.
    • By boilsover
      My Breville BSO 800XL  just died on it's second birthday, after only *extremely* light use at my beach house.  Just won't power up.
       
      Reading online, I learned that a common failure mode is the thermal fuse blowing -WHICH IS DESIGNED TO BLOW AT <450F.  This is a $3 part at Radio Shack, and there is a detailed instruction on how to replace it here:  http://virantha.com/2014/03/02/fix-your-breville-smart-oven-by-replacing-the-thermal-fuse/
       
      So I guess I'll give fixing it myself a try and report back.  Has anyone here done this repair?  Was it successful?  And why would Breville use a fuse that is lower than the appliance's top heat settings?
       
      Thanks!
    • By CanadianSportsman
      Greetings,

      I've cooked several recipes from Keller's "Bouchon" the last couple of weeks, and have loved them all! At the moment (as in right this minute) I'm making the boeuf Bourguignon, and am a little confused about the red wine reduction. After reducing the wine, herbs, and veg for nearly an hour now, I'm nowhere near the consistancy of a glaze that Keller specifies. In fact, it looks mostly like the veg is on the receiving end of most of it. Is this how the recipe is meant to be? Can anybody tell me what kind of yield is expected? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, kindly. 
    • By Franzisaurus_Rex
      I've had an idea flowing across my brain waves over the last few months. It's on every channel and I'm getting ready to pull the trigger. 
      I'd like to try to braise a dish in my smoker. I am thinking of braising a rabbit, but the I'm not looking for guidance on the protein/ingredients, rather the technique. I turn to you, o internet, in hope you will tell me your secrets.
      Has anyone ever braised in their smoker before? I've done some research, but I haven't seen much on the "how to" for the technique. Here's my plan:
      - Brown the rabbits on skillet (stovetop)
      - Get the aromatics/other stuffz sweated browned, etc.
      - (MEANWHILE) Smoker heats up to 300-325 degrees.
      - Add stock to rabbit, bring to a simmer on the stove top.
      - Transfer to smoker, braise uncovered for 1-2 hours, then cover with foil to finish for as long as necessary.
      I've seen folks smoke and then braise, but I haven't seen much on the idea of braising something IN the smoker. I saw something on CookingwithMe.at about doing something similar with pork belly, but that's about it.
      All I know is that after using stock+drippings from a smoked turkey created this CRAZY MIND-BLOWING flavor, so I'm basing this a lot off that idea.
      -Franz
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×