Molded and Filled Chocolates: Troubleshooting and Techniques

[Kerry Beal]

3 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

I use CW2295, 29 mm diameter 21 mm deep. I don't think of them as particularly problematic ... I love how easy to polish they are and haven't had anything too stubborn lately.

Funny @Chocolot and I were discussion this this morning and decided this was probably the mold being used by Stick With Me Sweets. I need to go through my domes - pretty sure I have one or two in there along with the deep difficult ones. 

[gfron1]

5 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 

I just remembered that @gfron1 uses domes that look deep (I don't know the weight).  Perhaps he could weigh in on any unmolding difficulties he has had with them.  I think @pastrygirl uses them as well.

CW2116 Pain. In. The. Ass.

[Jim D.]

47 minutes ago, gfron1 said:

CW2116 Pain. In. The. Ass.

 

But which one do you use?

[Jim D.]

Now I am more puzzled than ever.  On the top row below are the two molds I use, CW 1157 (18g, 29.7mm diameter x 25mm tall) and CW 1433 (15g, 29mm x 25mm).  On the bottom row is CW 2207 (14g, 29mm x 21mm), which @pastrygirl and @Kerry Beal use, and CW 2116 (14g, 29mm x 23mm), which @gfron1uses:

 

To me the shapes look the same.  But perhaps the 4mm less tall of the third one makes a difference?

 

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Jim D.
Edited to add gfron1's CW 2116. (log)

[curls]

4 hours ago, gfron1 said:

CW2116 Pain. In. The. Ass.

Interesting, that is the mould that I use for cherry cordials and it works well for me.

[Tri2Cook]

12 hours ago, Jim D. said:

To me the shapes look the same.  But perhaps the 4mm less tall of the third one makes a difference?

 

I can't answer for them or give a scientific reason but like I said, I also use the cw2295 that @pastrygirl uses. It's been my primary mold since I started doing this. Maybe the 4mm makes a difference, maybe I've been lucky. Zen patience is not a virtue I was gifted heavily with... if I had to fight with it, I would have dumped it a long time ago. 😁

[Rajala]

Those images look to be the same image. Weird that Chocolate World haven't updated their images for some of the older models yet.

 

However! Yesterday I tried to temper again, regular room temp at around 21,7°. One single shell contracted from the mold. I'm either losing my mind or the chocolate is messing with me. I'm gonna try with some classic Caraïbe today and see if the result gets better.

[gfron1]

15 hours ago, Jim D. said:

But which one do you use?

CW2116

[gfron1]

10 hours ago, curls said:

Interesting, that is the mould that I use for cherry cordials and it works well for me.

I've been saying for years I need to spend a week in someone else's kitchen, especially someone with a vertical wheel tempering machine who does painted molds. We all have such different circumstances that I have never felt competent, especially since I only make chocolates a few times a year in spurts.

[Jim D.]

11 minutes ago, gfron1 said:

CW2116

 

I have now edited my earlier post with the images to include this dome.  A cynical viewer might think CW has used the same image for all its domes!  Perhaps they need to add a new category, something along the lines of "difficulty of unmolding."

[EsaK]

@pastrygirl and @Tri2Cook, and whoever else might be using CW2295, are you having problems getting release marks on your chocolates? I don't have particular issues in unmolding either, but I do have a pretty consistent issue of release marks. You can see them especially well if you look at the empty mould against light, clearly shows the small areas of "grey". I'm not implying it's the mould's fault by the way, it very likely is not... 🙄

[pastrygirl]

8 hours ago, Rajala said:

Those images look to be the same image. Weird that Chocolate World haven't updated their images for some of the older models yet.

 

However! Yesterday I tried to temper again, regular room temp at around 21,7°. One single shell contracted from the mold. I'm either losing my mind or the chocolate is messing with me. I'm gonna try with some classic Caraïbe today and see if the result gets better.

 

I like a much cooler kitchen, around 18 C.  My tenants are all bundled up and probably hate me but if the chocolate is happy, I'm happy.

 

I'd say don't rush the un-molding, give everything time to fully crystallize. 

 

[Rajala]

37 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

I like a much cooler kitchen, around 18 C.  My tenants are all bundled up and probably hate me but if the chocolate is happy, I'm happy.

 

I'd say don't rush the un-molding, give everything time to fully crystallize. 

 

 

I normally handle chocolate at 21-22°. But I got the idea to have it at 20° just to see if I got better results, and I just fail with everything. I tried to mold with Caraïbe minutes ago and it doesn't even set. Someone suggested that maybe my thermometer is off? Might be I hope so, because I can't really understand how I lost the ability to temper chocolate otherwise.

 

One thing is for sure, I'm going back to the roots with using small pieces of paper just to check if it's tempered and if not? Well, start over.

[Tri2Cook]

6 hours ago, gfron1 said:

I've been saying for years I need to spend a week in someone else's kitchen, especially someone with a vertical wheel tempering machine who does painted molds. We all have such different circumstances that I have never felt competent, especially since I only make chocolates a few times a year in spurts.

Yeah, maybe disclaimers regarding situation should be included with our answers. My work area is easy to keep in the recommended temp range for most of the year (for several months out of the year, I'm usually needing to bring the room temp up to be in range), I'm tempering with the EZtemper and I tend towards very simple or not at all with decorating. I suppose that last bit could very possibly lead some to write off most of what I say right off the top. Publicly, I'd argue that I pretty much always get well tempered shells that release cleanly. But I'd secretly be thinking "yeah, I really need to get onboard with the fancy decorating thing." 

[Jim D.]

2 hours ago, Rajala said:

 

I normally handle chocolate at 21-22°. But I got the idea to have it at 20° just to see if I got better results, and I just fail with everything. I tried to mold with Caraïbe minutes ago and it doesn't even set. Someone suggested that maybe my thermometer is off? Might be I hope so, because I can't really understand how I lost the ability to temper chocolate otherwise.

 

One thing is for sure, I'm going back to the roots with using small pieces of paper just to check if it's tempered and if not? Well, start over.

 

Which tempering method are you using?

[Rajala]

6 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 

Which tempering method are you using?

 

I melt the chocolate to 50°, pour EVERYTHING on my counter top, work it down to like 28° and then up to 31-32° in the microwave oven. I don't save a third of it or so. I guess this is a bit strange? But it always worked for me.

[Kerry Beal]

5 hours ago, Rajala said:

 

I melt the chocolate to 50°, pour EVERYTHING on my counter top, work it down to like 28° and then up to 31-32° in the microwave oven. I don't save a third of it or so. I guess this is a bit strange? But it always worked for me.

So I would work down to 27 for dark and 25 for milk. Reheat dark to 31 for dark and 30 for milk. As it starts to thicken over time push temps as high as 34.5 for dark, 32.5 for milk.

[Rajala]

3 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

So I would work down to 27 for dark and 25 for milk. Reheat dark to 31 for dark and 30 for milk. As it starts to thicken over time push temps as high as 34.5 for dark, 32.5 for milk.

 

I'll give it a go if I fail with the other thermometer.

 

It shows a ,5 difference just when I measure the "air" of the room. That's quite the differene for chocolate. But not sure if it always was like this or not. 3,5 hours left of the work day. Will temper after that.

[Rajala]

Nope. Not the thermometer. But it's still so bizarre. How can I basically forget how to temper chocolate? I have no idea. But I will go for 27° instead. See if it'll work.

[Jim D.]

2 hours ago, Rajala said:

Nope. Not the thermometer. But it's still so bizarre. How can I basically forget how to temper chocolate? I have no idea. But I will go for 27° instead. See if it'll work.

 

Why not try using seed?  Since it rarely (if ever) fails, at least it would restore your confidence.  And it's so much less messy than tabling.

[Rajala]

1 hour ago, Jim D. said:

Why not try using seed?  Since it rarely (if ever) fails, at least it would restore your confidence.  And it's so much less messy than tabling.

 

Why not? I've never tried that earlier.

 

What are your pro tips when it comes to seeding?

[GRiker]

This is how I temper with seeding:

 

Once one has melted chocolate (100˚F if starting with well tempered chocolate, if not well tempered in the beginning, 115˚F for dark and 110˚F for milk/white) start adding tempered chocolate (chopped or wafers) to the melted chocolate.  Add slowly enough that one completely melts what one adds in.  One doesn't want unmelted bits.  Add smaller amounts of chocolate as one approaches working temperature.  In order for chocolate to seed properly, some of the added solid tempered chocolate must be added below 95˚F. 

 

One can also add a large chunk of chocolate which one stirs in and then remove upon reaching working temperature.

 

Stir until chocolate mixture has cooled to 90˚F for dark or 88˚F for milk and cocoa butter white. This can take 10-15 minutes.  This is the working temperature. Check temper.  If the chocolate doesn't set quickly, try stirring it a bit more then checking again.

[Jim D.]

4 minutes ago, Rajala said:

 

Why not? I've never tried that earlier.

 

What are your pro tips when it comes to seeding?

 

These are not pro tips, just the way I temper a small amount of chocolate (standard procedure, I think).  Here I'm speaking of dark chocolate (temps are, of course, a little different for milk or white).  If I am using "used" chocolate, I melt it to over 43C to melt out all the crystals.  Then I add some more chocolate (whether it's more used chocolate or new from the bag doesn't matter as any Type V crystals are going to be melted out--the purpose of this step is to cool down the chocolate as quickly as possible).  When it is in the 35C area, I add the seed.  It's easier if you have a block, but callets/pistoles/fèvres from the bag work.  I stir as the seed is melting to distribute its Type V crystals throughout the bowl.  When the contents of the bowl cool to the 31.5 - 32 range, I remove the seed.  I stir for another minute or so, then test the chocolate for temper.

 

If your chocolate is all "new" from the bag, then you don't have to go all the way to 43.  You just heat it up to its working temp (31.5 to 32 for dark), being careful not to get it too far above that or if you do go above 34, make sure there is enough unmelted chocolate to act as seed.  This method is a bit more tedious but quicker.

[Rajala]

Okay, I did another test an hour ago. Going down to 27,1° before pouring the chocolate back in to my bowl. So it was probably even less than 27°, when reheating. All shells except one contracted from the mold. When everything else fails, listen to Kerry?

[Jim D.]

2 hours ago, Rajala said:

Okay, I did another test an hour ago. Going down to 27,1° before pouring the chocolate back in to my bowl. So it was probably even less than 27°, when reheating. All shells except one contracted from the mold. When everything else fails, listen to Kerry?

 

So you didn't try the seed method?  It's so much less messy.  Or perhaps you enjoy playing with chocolate?  😄