ChatGPT A.I. and solving the "why" in cooking

[eugenep]

I always liked Cooks Illustrated and Modernist Cuisine because they always explained the why behind most things and I couldn't find it by following a recipe or cookbook. 

 

But is seems like...asking the why on the new chatgpt platform is pretty impressive in a way that is different from just using google. 

 

I guess I'm just posting this to share this tool and see if anyone has better questions for the AI or uses for it. 

 

 

 

I have an example below: 

 

Me: "Does fat absorb flavor?" 

 

 

ChatGPT: Yes, fat can absorb flavor. Fat is a natural flavor carrier, meaning it has the ability to absorb and retain the flavors of the ingredients it comes into contact with. This is why many traditional recipes, such as stews, soups, and braised dishes, often include a generous amount of fat, such as butter, oil, or lard, to help enhance the overall taste and flavor of the dish.

 

When fat is cooked with aromatic ingredients, such as herbs, spices, and vegetables, the flavor compounds are dissolved into the fat, which then disperses the flavor throughout the dish. Additionally, the slow cooking process allows the fat to dissolve into the meat, further intensifying the flavor.

 

It's important to note that the type of fat used will also affect the flavor, as some fats, such as butter, have a distinct taste that can contribute to the overall flavor of the dish. When using fat to enhance flavor, it is important to choose a high-quality fat that is appropriate for the dish and cooking method, and to use it in moderation to maintain a healthy and balanced diet.

[Bernie]

The only comment on ChatGPT is that it does nor necessarily provide truth

huh?

2 hours ago, eugenep said:

ChatGPT: Yes, fat can absorb flavor. .......

The question was DOES Fat absorb flavor?

The answer is it CAN,  which is not actually what is asked.

Well the way it works is that it uses combinations of words "and phrases"  it gets from the internet, the whole internet, then applies language rules and algorithms to format answers.

It MUST provide an answer. It will never say "I don't know"

So if enough articles/information is out there on a particular subject they provide the basis for the answers.

You need to understand it uses ALL the material it has found. In effect it provides a consensus answer. It may be correct, but it may not be. It may be old information.

If the overall opinion of source material says one thing then that is what will provide bias. Even if the answer provides references, it is best to actually check the references just to make sure the knowledge in the reference is in context.

Perhaps try it out for a recipe you know and it may well bring up several variations.

Google may well be biassed towards revenue generating answers, but the references are generally accurate because websites that generate revenue from advertising like to keep their users coming back so they are usually truthful.

 

[eugenep]

I was just thinking though...for executive chefs and professionals that create/design dishes and know combinations.. 

 

If it's possible to have it generate combination recipes that work etc. since it could aggregate info and give an output that is more or less intelligent? 

 

Like..it  seems there is already a lot of info about flavors that work and could be a resource for the algorithms (like the book below and others like it)

 

I don't know about flavor combinations that well myself or work in designing dishes for fancier restaurants so..it's like I don't know how to ask it myself

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by eugenep (log)

[paulraphael]

This is an example of the shortcomings of ChatGPT. It's a bad answer. Fat caries fat-soluble flavors. It can mute water-soluble flavors. It can be great for carrying non-volatile flavors that you perceive with your taste buds (sweet, sour, bitter, umami, etc.). It can mute many aromatic flavor compounds that you perceive with your nose (but I doubt all of them). This is complex flavor science, but the AI has just picked up on the old lore. 

[FeChef]

Ask it how to get squiggley crevasses in fried chicken. I been searching google for years trying to figure it out.

Picture for reference:

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by FeChef (log)

[eugenep]

19 minutes ago, FeChef said:

Ask it how to get squiggley crevasses in fried chicken. I been searching google for years trying to figure it out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ME: "how to get squiggly crevasses in fried chicken?" 

 

ChatGPT: ask yo momma. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm just kidding..lol. Here is what ChatGPT said in response. I think it's pretty good. 

 

The "squiggly crevasses" you're referring to in fried chicken are often seen in crispy, crunchy skin and are the result of properly frying the chicken to achieve a well-textured exterior. Here are some steps you can follow to achieve this texture:

1. Brine the chicken: Soaking the chicken in a saltwater solution for several hours before frying can help to tenderize the meat and create a crispy skin.

2. Dry the chicken thoroughly: Pat the chicken dry with paper towels to remove any excess moisture before frying. This will help the skin to crisp up and create those desirable crevasses.

3. Use the right cooking oil: Use an oil with a high smoke point, such as peanut or vegetable oil, for frying.

4. Fry at the right temperature: Maintain the oil temperature between 350°F and 375°F to ensure even cooking and to avoid burning the skin.

5. Fry for the right amount of time: Fry the chicken for approximately 12 to 15 minutes, depending on the size and thickness of the pieces, until they are fully cooked and the skin is crispy and golden brown.

By following these steps, you can achieve those squiggly crevasses in your fried chicken and enjoy a delicious, crunchy exterior.

Edited February 10, 2023 by eugenep (log)

[Anna N]

20 minutes ago, eugenep said:

By following these steps, you can achieve those squiggly crevasses in your fried chicken and enjoy a delicious, crunchy exterior.

What am I missing here? Without a coating or a batter I fail to see how you can even approach the chicken in the photograph. 

[eugenep]

2 minutes ago, Anna N said:

What am I missing here? Without a coating or a batter I fail to see how you can even approach the chicken in the photograph. 

I was sort of surprised that it was robust enough to understand "squiggly lines" on chicken. 

 

Like...it gave a coherent answer in response to what may be a curve ball. 

[haresfur]

I think brining inhibits crispy skin

[Anna N]

1 minute ago, eugenep said:

I was sort of surprised that it was robust enough to understand "squiggly lines" on chicken. 

 

Like...it gave a coherent answer in response to what may be a curve ball. 

I can only shake my head in disbelief. Do we need another source of coherent but useless information?

[eugenep]

Just now, Anna N said:

I can only shake my head in disbelief. Do we need another source of coherent but useless information?

Okay. I agree with you about the limitations but I actually wanted the AI to respond to its shortcomings. 

 

Here is what it said: 

 

ME: But don't I need a batter coating on the chicken to get the crispy skin?

ChatGPT: 

 

A batter coating can certainly help to create a crispy skin on fried chicken, but it is not the only way to achieve this texture. Brining and properly drying the chicken, using the right cooking oil and temperature, and frying for the right amount of time can all contribute to creating a crispy, crunchy exterior without the use of a batter coating.

 

If you prefer to use a batter coating, you can make a simple batter by mixing together flour, salt, pepper, and any other spices you like. Dip the chicken pieces in the batter to coat them evenly, then shake off any excess before frying. The batter will create a crispy, crunchy coating on the outside of the chicken that will help to trap the moisture inside, resulting in juicy and flavorful meat.

 

So, whether you choose to use a batter coating or not, following the steps outlined above will help you to achieve that desired crispy, crunchy texture in your fried chicken.

 

[FeChef]

25 minutes ago, Anna N said:

I can only shake my head in disbelief. Do we need another source of coherent but useless information?

ChatGPT for POTUS 2024

[Anna N]

33 minutes ago, eugenep said:

Okay. I agree with you about the limitations but I actually wanted the AI to respond to its shortcomings. 

 

Here is what it said: 

 

ME: But don't I need a batter coating on the chicken to get the crispy skin?

 

ChatGPT: 

 

A batter coating can certainly help to create a crispy skin on fried chicken, but it is not the only way to achieve this texture. Brining and properly drying the chicken, using the right cooking oil and temperature, and frying for the right amount of time can all contribute to creating a crispy, crunchy exterior without the use of a batter coating.

 

If you prefer to use a batter coating, you can make a simple batter by mixing together flour, salt, pepper, and any other spices you like. Dip the chicken pieces in the batter to coat them evenly, then shake off any excess before frying. The batter will create a crispy, crunchy coating on the outside of the chicken that will help to trap the moisture inside, resulting in juicy and flavorful meat.

 

So, whether you choose to use a batter coating or not, following the steps outlined above will help you to achieve that desired crispy, crunchy texture in your fried chicken.

 

 

34 minutes ago, eugenep said:

Okay. I agree with you about the limitations but I actually wanted the AI to respond to its shortcomings.

Put it to a test of useability. Make a batter given the instructions! Where's the liquid? Show me the crispy skin underneath a batter coating. I have never found it. That "trapped moisture" it speaks of precludes crispy skin in my experience. I am reminded of a saying we had in University: bullshit baffles brains. If you can sound learned you can fool some of the people some of the time.  Close scrutiny reveals a lack of knowledge, experience and logic. But have fun.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

We or it is conflating crispy "skin" with crispy exterior coating.    To each his own but this kind of emphasized coating always reminds me of the Colonel.   Not my preferred fried chicken.   Not "my mama's".

[gfweb]

Q. Does searing meat lock in juices?

 

ChatGPT. 

The idea that searing meat locks in juices is a common myth. Searing meat does not actually "seal" in the juices, but it does have some other benefits.

When you sear meat, you are exposing it to high heat for a short period of time. This process causes a reaction called the Maillard reaction, which creates a delicious, caramelized crust on the outside of the meat. The crust helps to retain some of the moisture inside the meat and provides a textural contrast to the tender interior.

However, it's important to note that the searing process does not actually prevent the juices from escaping. If you were to cut into a seared steak immediately after cooking, you would see that some of the juices have indeed leaked out.

That being said, cooking meat to the correct temperature can help retain the juices. By cooking meat to the recommended temperature, you allow the proteins to denature and the juices to redistribute evenly throughout the meat. This helps ensure that the meat remains juicy and tender.

In conclusion, searing meat does not lock in juices, but it does add flavor and texture, and cooking the meat to the correct temperature can help retain its juices.

 

 

Not a bad answer.

[liuzhou]

1 hour ago, gfweb said:

Not a bad answer.

 

but one I can get just as easily on Google or Bing with the source stated

 

[IndyRob]

5 hours ago, eugenep said:

 

The "squiggly crevasses" you're referring to in fried chicken are often seen in crispy, crunchy skin and are the result of properly frying the chicken to achieve a well-textured exterior. Here are some steps you can follow to achieve this texture:

1. Brine the chicken: Soaking the chicken in a saltwater solution for several hours before frying can help to tenderize the meat and create a crispy skin.

2. Dry the chicken thoroughly: Pat the chicken dry with paper towels to remove any excess moisture before frying. This will help the skin to crisp up and create those desirable crevasses.

3. Use the right cooking oil: Use an oil with a high smoke point, such as peanut or vegetable oil, for frying.

4. Fry at the right temperature: Maintain the oil temperature between 350°F and 375°F to ensure even cooking and to avoid burning the skin.

5. Fry for the right amount of time: Fry the chicken for approximately 12 to 15 minutes, depending on the size and thickness of the pieces, until they are fully cooked and the skin is crispy and golden brown.

These are just the steps to any fried chicken.  It's downright lying about the crevasses.

[Bernie]

8 hours ago, eugenep said:

......

A batter coating can certainly help to create a crispy skin on fried chicken, but it is not the only way to achieve this texture. Brining and properly drying the chicken, using the right cooking oil and temperature, and frying for the right amount of time can all contribute to creating a crispy, crunchy exterior without the use of a batter coating.

 

Well I am calling this answer BULLSHIT!

[Duvel]

6 hours ago, liuzhou said:

 

but one I can get just as easily on Google or Bing with the source stated

 

That is because all queries here use it as an simple interface to its database (which is mainly derived from publicly accessible electronic date, e.g. the internet) - like Google. With that you make use of the language processing capabilities, but not of the content creation capabilities. ChatGPT was not primarily designed to give coherent answers, it is a model to create code, content and images in dialogue form. If you give it a creative request rather than a knowledge one, you will be able to see the difference to a regular search engine. 

[Duvel]

1 hour ago, Bernie said:

Well I am calling this answer BULLSHIT!

Why ? Never brined and fried a chicken wing sans batter ..?

[liuzhou]

The Guardian view on ChatGPT search: exploiting wishful thinking

[Bernie]

1 hour ago, Duvel said:

Why ? Never brined and fried a chicken wing sans batter ..?

Well yes as a matter of fact I have, with both a whole chicken (using Heston's rationale and method) and with chicken pieces (though usually with the bone removed). It is really good to use in chicken tacos 

The answer to the second question is "no" if the first answer is correct. (truth)

This is not intelligent, its just data mining on a grand scale.

Anything else is just bullshit and believed with a grain of salt.

[Duvel]

6 minutes ago, Bernie said:

Well yes as a matter of fact I have, with both a whole chicken (using Heston's rationale and method) and with chicken pieces (though usually with the bone removed). It is really good to use in chicken tacos 

The answer to the second question is "no" if the first answer is correct. (truth)

This is not intelligent, its just data mining on a grand scale.

Anything else is just bullshit and believed with a grain of salt.

I am still not certain what exactly you call bovine manure …

 

The answer provided is content-wise apt. The fact that ChatGPT gives this answer derived from its databank is equally not to be contested. The AI part is merely used to dissect the question. If you want the AIs input contained in the answer, you need to pose a request that requires the software to actually create content rather than pulling simply data and rephrasing it - and judge it based on that ability.

[&roid]

5 hours ago, Duvel said:

That is because all queries here use it as an simple interface to its database (which is mainly derived from publicly accessible electronic date, e.g. the internet) - like Google. With that you make use of the language processing capabilities, but not of the content creation capabilities. ChatGPT was not primarily designed to give coherent answers, it is a model to create code, content and images in dialogue form. If you give it a creative request rather than a knowledge one, you will be able to see the difference to a regular search engine. 

This exactly. I’ve spent quite a bit of time messing with chat GPT since it came out. It’s far from perfect but the way it parses really complex requests and can cope with follow up questions is hugely impressive. 
 

As an example, without any prior Swift knowledge I used it to help me write an iOS app that calculates the perfect martini based on the article linked in this thread  I doubt there’s any chance I’d have been able to do that just using google or bing. Well, I could have but it would have taken me a lot longer than my flighty nature would have allowed. 

[liuzhou]

Yet both Microsoft and Google are spending millions promoting their efforts as 'super search engines'. They aren't.