Chocolate Tempering: Tips and Troubleshooting

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Just now, pastrygirl said:

Yeah that top pic looks super thick, chocolate should flow

 

Since it was so thick and behaved better at higher temps, that sounds like over-crystallized.  Too much stirring at too low a temp, I'd guess.   I assume you have your KA on lowest speed but maybe don't stir constantly?

 

Did you mix the luster dust with something? You can also use it dry, just swirl it into the mold cavities with a clean dry paintbrush of appropriate size.

 

My advice is not to stir with the mixer at all.  Just use the PHMB standalone.

 

[Dan K]

5 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

Since it was so thick and behaved better at higher temps, that sounds like over-crystallized.  Too much stirring at too low a temp, I'd guess.   I assume you have your KA on lowest speed but maybe don't stir constantly?

Oooohhhh... that is quite possible. As @JoNorvelleWalker suggested, I should consider not using the mixer at all. I'll try that next time. I was indeed using the mixer on its lowest setting and leaving it to stir.

 

Quote

Did you mix the luster dust with something? You can also use it dry, just swirl it into the mold cavities with a clean dry paintbrush of appropriate size.

For the luster dust, I was just playing around. I tried to splatter in some purple cocoa butter first and then brush in the dust so the color would be visible after filling with chocolate. Literally my very first attempt at all of this (cocoa butter, luster dust, and molding), so I plan on messing around some more. It's great having a hobby that's edible! Ha!

 

3 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

My advice is not to stir with the mixer at all.  Just use the PHMB standalone.

Duly noted. I will try that next time. I also saw someone take the bowl out of the heating element to help it cool down faster. It seems like it takes forever to cool.

 

Thanks again for all the help. I appreciate the tips. I'm still frustrated that it was so easy 6 months ago and is now behaving so differently. The reason I even considered making some extra to sell was how easy it was. This experience has made me question whether I might be in over my head and should reconsidering my plans.

 

Hopefully I can figure out what's going on and find a consistent way to make this work. I'm suspecting that a contributing factor is my ignorance and I just happened to get lucky last year and have it go smoothly.

 

At least what I made is delicious. I especially like the caramels, and I also learned how to make orange-infused ganache by simmering some zest in the cream. Boy, was that good!

[pastrygirl]

@Dan K we spend all this time trying to coax chocolate into crystallizing, the hitch is you need to either use it right away or constantly maintain it.
“In temper” really just means a small % of the cocoa butter has  turned to stable crystals. As the chocolate cools more or is agitated more, that % increases and the chocolate gets more viscous. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, Dan K said:

Oooohhhh... that is quite possible. As @JoNorvelleWalker suggested, I should consider not using the mixer at all. I'll try that next time. I was indeed using the mixer on its lowest setting and leaving it to stir.

 

For the luster dust, I was just playing around. I tried to splatter in some purple cocoa butter first and then brush in the dust so the color would be visible after filling with chocolate. Literally my very first attempt at all of this (cocoa butter, luster dust, and molding), so I plan on messing around some more. It's great having a hobby that's edible! Ha!

 

Duly noted. I will try that next time. I also saw someone take the bowl out of the heating element to help it cool down faster. It seems like it takes forever to cool.

 

Thanks again for all the help. I appreciate the tips. I'm still frustrated that it was so easy 6 months ago and is now behaving so differently. The reason I even considered making some extra to sell was how easy it was. This experience has made me question whether I might be in over my head and should reconsidering my plans.

 

Hopefully I can figure out what's going on and find a consistent way to make this work. I'm suspecting that a contributing factor is my ignorance and I just happened to get lucky last year and have it go smoothly.

 

At least what I made is delicious. I especially like the caramels, and I also learned how to make orange-infused ganache by simmering some zest in the cream. Boy, was that good!

 

Since the PHMB is induction heated I doubt removing the bowl will help the chocolate cool faster.

 

[Jim D.]

There is a video showing the use of the PHMB to temper chocolate, but NOT using the paddle, just stirring.  I suspect the use of the paddle may be contributing to your probable overtempering (as pastrygirl explained).  Other tempering machines, such as the Chocovision ones, rotate the bowl constantly, but that is not as much movement as the KA provides.  I didn't mean to suggest that the chocolate should be raised to 93F as the "working temperature."  I said you should raise it well above that temp to melt it initially.  Then you add additional unmelted chocolate to lower the temp, making sure there is unmelted seed as it gets to 93F, let the seed melt until the chocolate temp is around 89-90F, stir it for a few minutes, then test it.  Dark chocolate should then be in temper.  As you work with it, over time it becomes overtempered, and that is the time to raise the temp and/or add untempered chocolate.  You mentioned that cooling down the chocolate takes time.  Yes, that is a (yet another) problem.  Adding unmelted chocolate speeds it up, but without a very expensive tempering machine (such as the Selmi), patience is required.

[Dan K]

 

1 hour ago, Jim D. said:

There is a video showing the use of the PHMB to temper chocolate, but NOT using the paddle, just stirring.  I suspect the use of the paddle may be contributing to your probable overtempering (as pastrygirl explained).  Other tempering machines, such as the Chocovision ones, rotate the bowl constantly, but that is not as much movement as the KA provides.  I didn't mean to suggest that the chocolate should be raised to 93F as the "working temperature."  I said you should raise it well above that temp to melt it initially.  Then you add additional unmelted chocolate to lower the temp, making sure there is unmelted seed as it gets to 93F, let the seed melt until the chocolate temp is around 89-90F, stir it for a few minutes, then test it.  Dark chocolate should then be in temper.  As you work with it, over time it becomes overtempered, and that is the time to raise the temp and/or add untempered chocolate.  You mentioned that cooling down the chocolate takes time.  Yes, that is a (yet another) problem.  Adding unmelted chocolate speeds it up, but without a very expensive tempering machine (such as the Selmi), patience is required.

Yes, I understand the issue. In my last attempt, I did just as you said (or thought I did, anyway), and let it sit for a bit after melting, added some seed and stirred by hand to cool it the rest of the way, and it was just not tempered at 90F. Warming it up above 90F did the trick, which I know should not be the case. I'll try it again in a few days (I'm traveling at the moment) to see if I can nail down the process.

 

And again, just to reiterate, using the seeding method in the machine (using the KA paddles to stir, even) worked perfectly 6 months ago. I do understand that it's not ideal, and there are all these other possible complications that I'm now trying to resolve. What I don't understand is why the chocolate is behaving so differently now.

 

I think another test I need to do is with better chocolate. I'm very suspicious of the product now.

[pastrygirl]

Since you were able to melt it and it's not seized, it's probably not the chocolate

 

There may be chocolates that are easier to use, but even experienced chocolatiers using expensive chocolate have failures.  I've been at this several years and have probably tempered a literal ton of chocolate but sometimes I still get it wrong. 

 

 

[jimb0]

also: the potential for functional slave chocolate aside there’s not necessarily shame involved in using something that isn’t absurdly expensive. it’s certainly not cringeworthy. i use a local chains storebrand chocolate a lot: always for practice and often just because. it’s totally fine and closer to the expensive stuff in taste than it is different. this goes double for anything where you’re adding a lot of flavour from something that isn’t chocolate since you’re going to flatten the distinctiveness anyway. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by jimb0 (log)

[Rajala]

I love the discussions in this thread! I'm with pastrygirl, sometimes it feels like I lost all my experience when some chocolate doesn't temper. I had that happened to me last year(?), in this thread I think.

[Altay.Oro]

I have a question about the working principle of tempering machines ... do they have any attachment for measuring the tempering quality of the chocolate ... or do they rely solely on the temperatures of the chocolate?

[keychris]

3 hours ago, Altay.Oro said:

I have a question about the working principle of tempering machines ... do they have any attachment for measuring the tempering quality of the chocolate ... or do they rely solely on the temperatures of the chocolate?

 

measuring the "tempering quality" of the chocolate is as simple as sticking a spatula in and testing the temper. If you mean, are they monitoring the level of crystallisation, no, I don't believe so. it's done by knowledge of how the cocoa butter crystallises, using temperature and movement to generate the correct crystals.

 

that being said I don't actually have one so I could be completely wrong

[Altay.Oro]

7 hours ago, keychris said:

 

measuring the "tempering quality" of the chocolate is as simple as sticking a spatula in and testing the temper. If you mean, are they monitoring the level of crystallisation, no, I don't believe so. it's done by knowledge of how the cocoa butter crystallises, using temperature and movement to generate the correct crystals.

 

that being said I don't actually have one so I could be completely wrong

 

Ok no lamp saying that the chocolate is now in perfectly tempered state and ready to use 🙂 we need to manually test the temper 👍

Do we need to adjust the temperature occasionally to prevent overtempering?

For example ... if I start the machine in the morning, can I use the tempered chocolate all along the day without any intervention?

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Altay.Oro (log)

[curls]

@Altay.Oro what type of tempering machine are you talking about -- different machines work differently. Is this a wheel machine, a bowl machine, a semi-automatic machine, etc.. Do you own a tempering unit? Are you planning to purchase one?

[Altay.Oro]

8 hours ago, curls said:

Do you own a tempering unit? Are you planning to purchase one?

 

No, I'm just asking out of curiosity ... if not all, what type of tempering machines can provide perfectly tempered chocolate all along the day without any intervention?

[curls]

3 hours ago, Altay.Oro said:

 

No, I'm just asking out of curiosity ... if not all, what type of tempering machines can provide perfectly tempered chocolate all along the day without any intervention?

I would recommend looking at the automatic tempering machines. If you were in the USA then, you would probably be working with Tomric for a Selmi machine (https://tomric.com/confectionery-equipment/tempering/) or TCF Sales for a temperer from one of the other manufacturers (https://www.tcfsales.com/products/c248-automatic-continuous-tempering-moulding-and-enrobing/). 

[Jim D.]

Gianduja was tempered (with EZtemper silk).  I agree about the thinness of the shell being a possible factor.  Of course, it's difficult to tell how thin it is until it's too late.  I made a similar filling in a grooved dome, and with that, I made sure the shell was not thin--and I could tell because the grooves were no longer completely visible.  Those bonbons fell out of the mold without issue.  And no, I was not impatient.  I tried to unmold after 15 minutes or more.  Not a single bonbon fell out (that was got to be the worst feeling in the world).  I tried an hour later, then froze them.  Around 100 came out, the rest were as in the photo.  I hate that CW dome!

[Kerry Beal]

10 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 

Thank you for that insight.  It's difficult to make yourself stop in the middle of making shells and test for temper, but it appears to be necessary.  Do you know of any discussion or any scientific papers about overtempering that deal with this problem?  I have also noticed that sometimes shells, when they are cooling in the fridge, acquire a dusty look.  Could this be a sign of overtempering?  They usually come out of the mold without a problem, but it looks suspicious.

Dusty inside is under tempered IMHO and they often contract beautifully and come out of the mold really easily because of all that contraction going from form IV to V. 

 

No sure about any papers. 

[keychris]

On 4/20/2021 at 4:57 PM, Altay.Oro said:

 

Ok no lamp saying that the chocolate is now in perfectly tempered state and ready to use 🙂 we need to manually test the temper 👍

Do we need to adjust the temperature occasionally to prevent overtempering?

For example ... if I start the machine in the morning, can I use the tempered chocolate all along the day without any intervention?

 

 

the big automatic tempering machines like a Selmi hold the chocolate in the tank at 45C (or whatever you set it at). The chocolate that comes out the spout has been cooled to 32C (or whatever you set it to) and it's perfectly tempered (or should be). But once it's back in the big tank, it's back up to 45C and uncrystallised. So you can *get* tempered chocolate whenever you need it, but it's not held in temper all the time. 

[joe candy]

KeyChoc Infinity AX and BX automated tempering machines operate a little different.

The bowl / tank melting temperature setpoint (42C to 45C) is only when the machine is not in temper mode. When you initiate tempering it will lower the working bowl / tank temperature to about 3 degrees above the working setpoint temperature.

It will not try to decrystallize the working bowl / tank while in tempering mode. 

So, after while your chocolate will start to visibly thicken which is basically overseeding.

[cc.canuck]

I'm relatively new to chocolate making but now that I've finally got the hang of tempering (by hand using the seeding method) I'd like to work on incorporating less air during the process.

 

I mainly make bars at the moment so I can tap out air bubbles after filling but I want to start making dipped biscuits and that's not going to work! I've watched oh so many videos of people stirring their chocolate while tempering and can't pick up any nuances that make their process different to mine, though they clearly have significantly less air in their mixture.

 

Any ideas how I could fix this problem or should I consider incorporating air bubbles into my biscuit design?

[Jim D.]

Are you stirring fast?  And what tool are you using?  There is no need to stir madly (as some people assert).  As long as the Type V crystals are being mixed in, a slower stir might be in order.  And if you are using a whisk or something similar, try switching to a spatula or anything that doesn't incorporate air.

[Kerry Beal]

6 hours ago, cc.canuck said:

I'm relatively new to chocolate making but now that I've finally got the hang of tempering (by hand using the seeding method) I'd like to work on incorporating less air during the process.

 

I mainly make bars at the moment so I can tap out air bubbles after filling but I want to start making dipped biscuits and that's not going to work! I've watched oh so many videos of people stirring their chocolate while tempering and can't pick up any nuances that make their process different to mine, though they clearly have significantly less air in their mixture.

 

Any ideas how I could fix this problem or should I consider incorporating air bubbles into my biscuit design?

Welcome @cc.canuck. I'm assuming with that moniker you are in Canada?

 

Can you show us a picture of the air bubbles you are getting?

 

 

[cc.canuck]

Canadian indeed! You caught me.

 

I use a rubber spatula and do a constant push pull motion (because I had read that that could help reduce air bubbles) with a regular scrape around the edge to bring that chocolate into the middle of the bowl. I do worry about not stirring enough so maybe slowing down would help.

 

Most of my pictures revolve around trying not to show air bubbles but I'll take some next time I temper!

 

It would be interesting to hear how many air bubbles a skilled stirrer usually incorporates. I'm assuming absolutely none is in impossible.

Edited April 28, 2021 by cc.canuck
Addressing a missed point (log)

[Kerry Beal]

11 hours ago, cc.canuck said:

Canadian indeed! You caught me.

 

I use a rubber spatula and do a constant push pull motion (because I had read that that could help reduce air bubbles) with a regular scrape around the edge to bring that chocolate into the middle of the bowl. I do worry about not stirring enough so maybe slowing down would help.

 

Most of my pictures revolve around trying not to show air bubbles but I'll take some next time I temper!

 

It would be interesting to hear how many air bubbles a skilled stirrer usually incorporates. I'm assuming absolutely none is in impossible.

So giving this a little thought today - I don't think I've ever introduced a lot of air bubbles into my chocolate unless I was intending to. Bubbles in irregular molds of course...

 

What chocolate are you using? Perhaps that's a component of the issue?

[cc.canuck]

8 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

So giving this a little thought today - I don't think I've ever introduced a lot of air bubbles into my chocolate unless I was intending to. Bubbles in irregular molds of course...

 

What chocolate are you using? Perhaps that's a component of the issue?

Maybe. The bubbles are definitely worse for the dark chocolate than the milk and white, though I'd say all have so many bubbles that they're appearing on the biscuits.

 

Dark is Callebaut Sao Thome 70% 3/5 fluidity

 

Milk is Cacao Barry Papouisie 35% 4/5 fluidity

 

White is Cacao Barry Blanc Satin 29% 4/5 fluidity