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Paul Bacino

Upping a Weber Genesis grill temp? Supplemental heat source

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Is there a way..to increase temp in a Genesis Weber ( natural gas )--->  [  it is a three burner w/ central sear ]-- by adding a supplemental heat source? Trying to up my grill temp to 750 or more . from about 600F  ( peaked ).

 

Pretty much for pizza only

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Paul,  unfortunately, a grill is not a great place to make pizza, since most of the heat is from the bottom, you run the risk of burning the bottom before the top browns.  Some have marketed items that are supposed to help make a decent pizza in a gas grill.  https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20334.0  That is from a post years ago,  Bert subsequently made an MPO2 ,  I am not sure if he made an MPO 3,  but as you can see, what he suggested was using foil to block most of the grate, so all of the heat of the grill was confined to the area where the pie was cooking.    If Bert does not still offer an MPO model, you can try to do something similar with two pizza stones, and firebricks for the walls.  Another option is the OONI,   the Karu is about $330 if you go with a wood version, gas in an extra $90.


Edited by Barrytm (log)
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10 minutes ago, Barrytm said:

Paul,  unfortunately, a grill is not a great place to make pizza, since most of the heat is from the bottom, you run the risk of burning the bottom before the top browns.

 

This was my experience trying to make pizza on my Genesis.

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What about a stone of steel tile on the grill to cook on

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Steel makes the problem worse, as it causes the bottom to cook even faster than a pizza stone does. You need something above a stone radiating heat back down on the top of the pie. KettlePizza makes a "Gas Pro" model that's basically a pizza stone with a slab of stainless steel sitting over the top of it, working on a similar principle to the MPO mentioned earlier. I can't say how well these things work, but they're promising attempts to solve the problem.

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5 hours ago, Barrytm said:

Paul,  unfortunately, a grill is not a great place to make pizza, since most of the heat is from the bottom, you run the risk of burning the bottom before the top browns.  Some have marketed items that are supposed to help make a decent pizza in a gas grill.  https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20334.0  That is from a post years ago,  Bert subsequently made an MPO2 ,  I am not sure if he made an MPO 3,  but as you can see, what he suggested was using foil to block most of the grate, so all of the heat of the grill was confined to the area where the pie was cooking.    If Bert does not still offer an MPO model, you can try to do something similar with two pizza stones, and firebricks for the walls.  Another option is the OONI,   the Karu is about $330 if you go with a wood version, gas in an extra $90.

 

Instead of wasting extra money, grab a few bricks, make a partition, put a tray of red hot lit charcoal lumps on one side and the pizza on the other. Indirect heat from the charcoal will radiate and raise the temp without burning the bottom of the pie. I just saved you $330. You're welcome. 

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stack some ' fire ' bricks  on each side of a little oven you make on the grill

 

it has a ceramic bottom , fire bricks for the sides , and another ceramic ' roof '

 

its not expensive to do

 

its been mentioned here a long time ago w pics.

 

use gas for most of the heat , and charcoal on the sides in a sea proof contianer

 

will take some time for the little oven to really get hot though.

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1 hour ago, rotuts said:

stack some ' fire ' bricks  on each side of a little oven you make on the grill

 

it has a ceramic bottom , fire bricks for the sides , and another ceramic ' roof '

 

its not expensive to do

 

its been mentioned here a long time ago w pics.

 

use gas for most of the heat , and charcoal on the sides in a sea proof contianer

 

will take some time for the little oven to really get hot though.

Good idea!

 

One could load charcoal on the roof in a Dutch Oven manner too.

 

The shape of the genesis lid may restrict the height of this thing, though

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I've actually had really good results for grilled pizza, without a lot of extra equipment. I used a Weber silver genesis (the old one with grill tubes running the long way) for all my experiments. I think the grill is a great standin for a pizza oven with an intense heat source on the bottom of the oven. The heat from the bottom really blasts the crust and makes it crunchy and crispy.

 

method 1: thin crust pizza, lightly dressed

 

Put entire pre-dressed pizza directly on a pre-heated grill. Cover and blast at full heat until the crust is set and starting to show nice grill marks. Lower heat until toppings are heated and melted. 

 

method 2: normal and thick crust pizza. Heavier toppings, pre-cooked.

 

Preheat grill at high, turn heat to medium. Oil pizza round for extra browning and flavor. Place undressed pizza round on grill at medium heat. The high heat start will put some nice marks on the dough, and give the dough a hit of oven spring. Grill until half cooked and grill marks are apparent. Flip and dress pizza, or hold dough until needed. You can dress the pizza on the grill, or take it off and allow your guests to have a pizza dressing experience. Works great for the kids! Grill covered until toppings melted. You can get great char and crust on the bottom of the pizza by turning the heat back up to high for a bit.This requires some pretty good timing, since it's easy to overcook and burn the crust at this point. I think it's worth it to get the browning on the bottom as well as the top of the dough, but you're going to play with it and overcook some pizzas along the way.

 

 

Also, I think stones or steels work great. I used to use a cast iron Lodge grill heated for 15 minutes at max grill temperature to cook the dough round. I stopped using it because it was just so unwieldy and heavy to move and clean.

 

If you want top browning on the toppings, grab the blowtorch!


Edited by tomishungry (log)
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i like the blowtorch  method

 

use it all the time for SV

 

key :   take your time and dont get it too close

 

just because you are starving !

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10 hours ago, rotuts said:

i like the blowtorch  method

 

use it all the time for SV

 

key :   take your time and dont get it too close

 

just because you are starving !

For cheese, a hot air gun works 10x better. You can melt, bubble, and brown the cheese without burning anything. I use a hot air gun when i am melting mozz on a california pizza cheese steak.

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Posted (edited)

I'm a little late to this discussion, but I have a few things to add.

 

First, charcoal in a gas grill is not a good idea.  It's not a question of if the ash will clog up your burners, but when.  Sure, if your burners do get clogged, you can clean them, but it will be a major hassle to do so. Charcoal also represents very intense localized heat.  A gas grill isn't manufactured with this kind of heat in mind. You could end up warping the grate or, if the coals are near a wall, you could warp the wall.

 

Even if you can keep ash out of the burners and prevent damage to the grill, as has been mentioned, the extra heat from the charcoal is the wrong kind of heat, since fast baked pizza requires intense top heat. Even if you put the charcoal to the side of the pizza, with the way the charcoal burns, and the height of the ceiling, you still won't get the top heat that you need for a balanced fast bake.

 

Your average gas grill, out of the box, is a horrible tool when it comes to fast baked pizza.  You've got the top/bottom heat balance issue and the peak temp problem.  An insert can resolve the top/bottom heat balance, but, you're still severely handicapped by the grill's peak temp. Not to mention, your average insert is typically going to cost you about half of what you'd pay for a real, Neapolitan capable, propane pizza oven. If someone wanted to match their home oven results with a grill, sure, a $150+ insert is a perfectly fine option (I'd probably recommend this one here). But 600 degree pizza is obviously not what you're looking for.  If you want fast baked pizza, you want the right tool for the job.  $300 will get you an Ooni Koda (gas). You don't want the Karu or the Ooni 3, since the Karu is still too untested, and the pellets of the 3 are a huge, messy hassle.  I would also dissuade you from the Ooni Pro, since the thermodynamics of the larger Pro don't seem to be on par with the smaller Koda.

 

If your pockets are considerably deeper, the Pizza Party Ardore is a step up.

 

https://www.pizzapartyshop.com/en/portable-gas-fired-pizza-ovens-ardore-spacesaving/outdoor-gas-pizza-oven-pizza-party-ardore.html

 

The pricing for the Ardore has been all over the map. At one point, it was as low as $600 shipped, but then it crept up to around $1100, and now it's showing a waiting list without any price listed.  The Ardore has three advantages.  First, a Koda can do authentic 60 second Neapolitan pizza, but an Ardore has the BTUs to do 45 second bakes.  45 second pizza is very advanced, since, at that bake time, it's pretty easy to end up with raw dough in the middle of your crust. If you do it right, though, 45 second pizza can be pretty breathtaking (45 second naan is also otherworldly).  The Ardore's second advantage is it's real estate. With a 15.75" x 15.75" stone, it's exponentially easier to turn the pizza in the oven (with a good turning peel).  Lastly, the Ardore puts the burner on the side, rather than on the back like the Koda.  Having the burner on the side allows you to watch the pizza as it bakes and turn it a bit more effectively.

 

45 second pizza is not really a dragon that many folks are chasing, and with a sizable learning curve, you can master turning in a Koda.  At $600, I think an Ardore is a viable upgrade for the truly obsessed, but, I think $1100 for an Ardore is a bit steep.  It depends on how deep your pockets are.

 

If you want to compare some of the specs for the popular brands of outdoor gas ovens, I compiled a spreadsheet here:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RkK7rmQMJWUYxp0zHhVLCcjQ1cLIJpUuTMOaOr2iEDk/edit#gid=0


Edited by scott123 (log)
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@scott123 

 

you make some very interesting points 

 

thanks for them.

 

Id like to mention , that w the Weber thermometer 

 

that comes w the W , on full-gas , that thermometer 

 

suggests that the W gets plenty hot.

 

how long you can keep the W at fell gas is another matter.

 

w a stacked arraignment in a W at full gas

 

with what ever time it takes to get Those Stones and thick metal top

 

to the Fullgas temp   I can't say.

 

60 sec vs 45 sec pizza is way beyond my comprehension

 

but  for an aficionado , go for it.

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Posted (edited)

I would think common sense you would not just dump charcoal into a gas grill. LOL Obviously use a charcoal basket, and only add pre lit red hot coals for that quick extra boost in heat. Besides, if the coals weren't already red hot and prelit, they would go out due to a gas grills lack of vents.


Edited by FeChef (log)

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gas grills have vents

 

that's how the gas burns

 

how many , and max air flow is another matter

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Thanks for all the tips!!

 

I will work with them.  or look other places, from suggestions.  For other systems

 

Paul


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On 2/21/2020 at 10:01 AM, rotuts said:

didn't @Paul Bacino 

 

hisself make this a zillion years ago

 

or was it 

 

@Porthos ?

 

 here it is :

 

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/145302-my-new-pizza-oven-design/?tab=comments#comment-1924222

 

 

just put coals on the top and a pan or two on the sides.

 

and wait.

yes..  RT  I did..  works pretty good!!  I just need it hotter (  I'm gonna get my IR fixed to help correct the heat problem )

 

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On 2/21/2020 at 10:01 AM, rotuts said:

didn't @Paul Bacino 

 

hisself make this a zillion years ago

 

or was it 

 

@Porthos ?

 

 here it is :

 

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/145302-my-new-pizza-oven-design/?tab=comments#comment-1924222

 

 

just put coals on the top and a pan or two on the sides.

 

and wait.

yes..  RT  I did..  works pretty good!!  I just need it hotter (  I'm gonna get my IR fixed to help correct the heat problem )

 

9213344773_ab9158ad37_h.jpg

 

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Paul,  nice setup,  though you may want to try something similar to what Bert did with covering most of the grill with aluminum foil, so the heat is directed up to the area where the stone is, and then it would probably work a little better if you could find a longer piece of steel, so that there was a gap between the bricks and the pizza stone, that way, some of the heat would go up into that gap, and give more upper heat.  

 

As to Scott's point, the Ardore is a nice little oven, but the owner of the company sold the business earlier this year, and the new owners have decided not to distribute propane  or gas ovens to the US.   It was originally listed for a higher number , with an introductory price of $600, but that price expired, and it was listed at $1,000 for a short time, before they stopped selling it to the US. They still offer the wood fired Pizza Party ovens in Europe , but I am not sure if they are offered in the US . 

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13 hours ago, rotuts said:

gas grills have vents

 

that's how the gas burns

 

how many , and max air flow is another matter

My weber Genesis gold has no vents, only the hole in the bottom for the drip tray. Again, i said "lack of" maybe i should have been more specific and said lack of adjustable vents.

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