New All-Metal Induction Hotplate from Panasonic

[Anna N]

7 hours ago, weinoo said:

So...what's a reasonable person to do?

 A reasonable person has a very good friend who gives them a beautiful donabe that is induction compatible.  Just saying.

[weinoo]

On 11/16/2018 at 6:34 AM, btbyrd said:

Induction interface plates are garbage. I guess they're an option if that's your only option, but don't let that be your only option. 

 

People were using donabes before they had gas, but they were cooking over wood fires or charcoal. They weren't using induction or ceramic cooktops. The good news is that Iwatani butane burners are dirt cheap.

 

9 hours ago, gfweb said:

Open a window

 

8 hours ago, btbyrd said:

Or not. It's no different than using a burner on a gas range indoors, and nobody freaks out about that (with the exception of high end ranges that need makeup ventilation). I use both of my Iwatani burners indoors all the time and have yet to die. They're essentially built to be used indoors, despite the paperwork boilerplate warning. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Japanese and Korean cooks use as their primary indoor burners. I wouldn't use one in a tiny airtight space, but in the context of a normal American home, it's not really an issue. Of course, you're in NYC... so the admonition to open a window is wise.

 

2 hours ago, Anna N said:

 A reasonable person has a very good friend who gives them a beautiful donabe that is induction compatible.  Just saying.

 

This unreasonable person has already ordered a beautiful donabe. And I get some nice cross-ventilation up here on the 15th floor corner...and I love to have windows open!

 

Re:  Natural gas - which is what my Wolf range is, vs. butane. There has to be a difference in how much carbon monoxide each one emits, no?

 

[dcarch]

8 hours ago, btbyrd said:

Or not. It's no different than using a burner on a gas range indoors, and nobody freaks out about that (with the exception of high end ranges that need makeup ventilation). I use both of my Iwatani burners indoors all the time and have yet to die. They're essentially built to be used indoors, despite the paperwork boilerplate warning. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Japanese and Korean cooks use as their primary indoor burners. I wouldn't use one in a tiny airtight space, but in the context of a normal American home, it's not really an issue. Of course, you're in NYC... so the admonition to open a window is wise.

 

Things are different today.

New homes are built extremely well to meet energy standards. Everything is sealed. There are very few air leaks to make up oxygen used inside. Building Codes have been revised to require outside air intake for heat and hotwater boiler and kitchen exhaust, for instance.

 

dcarch

[Anna N]

44 minutes ago, weinoo said:

 

 

 

 

This unreasonable person has already ordered a beautiful donabe. And I get some nice cross-ventilation up here on the 15th floor corner...and I love to have windows open!

 

Re:  Natural gas - which is what my Wolf range is, vs. butane. There has to be a difference in how much carbon monoxide each one emits, no?

 

I do not know. But I used a butane table-top burner for a long time for many things.  It’s not as though it’s going to be running for hours on end. There’s nothing wrong with making sure that you’ve got some good ventilation though while you’re doing it.  Used sensibly by sensible people I do not think it is much of a threat. 

[weinoo]

53 minutes ago, dcarch said:

Things are different today

New homes are built extremely well to meet energy standards. Everything is sealed. There are very few air leaks to make up oxygen used inside. 

 

Yeah, I don't really have to worry about this.  

 

These buildings are 60 years old, and recently shoddy construction was discovered on 18th floor balconies.  So every single one of them has been, is being, or will soon be repaired. At a cost of about $5 mm.  Our buildings are surrounded by never-ending scaffolding...not really out of the ordinary in NYC.

[gfweb]

@weinoo  I can't find a CO number for butane vs natural gas. Butane is apparently a better heater, though. About 3x more than nat gas.

 

Making all kinds of probably unwarranted assumptions....I'd figure  that although nat gas is mostly methane, there are other higher alkanes in it that might burn less cleanly and cause more CO production than butane.

[Smithy]

1 minute ago, gfweb said:

@weinoo  I can't find a CO number for butane vs natural gas. Butane is apparently a better heater, though. About 3x more than nat gas.

 

Making all kinds of probably unwarranted assumptions....I'd figure  that although nat gas is mostly methane, there are other higher alkanes in it that might burn less cleanly and cause more CO production than butane.

 

I also spent time trying to work this out, with about the same success and conclusions. Another point is that the butane stove, if it's a tabletop model as I assume, has a smaller fuel throughput (cfm, btu/hr, whatever) than the Wolf range.

 

From a practical, I-don't-have-to-do-this-anymore-because-I'm-retired-and-I-hated-emissions-calculations-when-I-had-to-do-them, empirical approach I'd suggest getting a carbon monoxide alarm if there isn't one already installed. The alarms are cheap - many battery-powered smoke alarms include them - and easy to install. I don't have a favorite. Kidde and First Alert make good ones.

 

That doesn't answer the theoretical question, but it will allow weinoo to enjoy the cookery without worry!

[KennethT]

9 minutes ago, Smithy said:

 

I also spent time trying to work this out, with about the same success and conclusions. Another point is that the butane stove, if it's a tabletop model as I assume, has a smaller fuel throughput (cfm, btu/hr, whatever) than the Wolf range.

 

From a practical, I-don't-have-to-do-this-anymore-because-I'm-retired-and-I-hated-emissions-calculations-when-I-had-to-do-them, empirical approach I'd suggest getting a carbon monoxide alarm if there isn't one already installed. The alarms are cheap - many battery-powered smoke alarms include them - and easy to install. I don't have a favorite. Kidde and First Alert make good ones.

 

That doesn't answer the theoretical question, but it will allow weinoo to enjoy the cookery without worry!

There are some Iwatani butane burners that put out 15K BTUs!  That's about as good as any non-commercial burner would be (which would require ridiculous venting).

[weinoo]

Never fear. We've had a carbon monoxide detector in this apartment for a long time!

[paulraphael]

On 8/26/2019 at 6:46 AM, weinoo said:

Re:  Natural gas - which is what my Wolf range is, vs. butane. There has to be a difference in how much carbon monoxide each one emits, no?

 

 

It's probably hard to generalize, and has more to do with the efficiency of the burner. Carbon monoxide is a product of incomplete combustion. If your burner is working at 100% efficiency, and the fuel is 100% pure (neither is likely in the real world) then the only combustion products will be carbon dioxide and water vapor. In real life, there's always some small portion of carbon monoxide and soot, regardless of the fuel.