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weinoo

Buttermilk as A Substitute for...

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I'm pretty sure that I know buttermilk may be substituted for things like yogurt and kefir somewhat easily.

 

But can buttermilk be substituted for regular, whole milk? I'm talking specifically for a dessert called flaugnarde, where it becomes part of the custard; and who knew that flaugnarde was simply a clafoutis made with different fruit than cherries?!


Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

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Will be interested to hear. I can see possibilities in that. Let us know, would you?

 

And put me down in the "did not know that" category.

 

 

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Don't ask. Eat it.

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Buttermilk custard, buttermilk pie is an old southern tradition.  I grew up eating the various types of these desserts.

Here is one

Recipe

and another

 

Some that are similar are made with "clabbered" milk  which requires raw milk to start.  A good substitute is, if 

you can find pasteurized milk that is not ultra-pasteurized, like Whole Foods and Trader Joes carry.

Is heated and cooked with lemon juice so it starts to form curds but instead of straining out the curds to make fresh cheese, you stir them back into the whey with a whisk and add 1/4 cup of heavy cream for each quart of milk.

You can hold this for 2-3 days in the fridge before using in your recipe.


Edited by andiesenji (log)
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"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

 

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Are you making that Plum Flaugnard that David Lebovitz put up recently? I have plans to buy plums tomorrow at the farmers' market for that very custard. I'm looking forward to hearing what buttermilk does for it. He calls for 1/4 cup heavy cream, which isn't a staple chez moi but I will sub in 1/2 and 1/2,, which I do have, and the rest milk. 

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1 hour ago, Katie Meadow said:

Are you making that Plum Flaugnard that David Lebovitz put up recently? I have plans to buy plums tomorrow at the farmers' market for that very custard. I'm looking forward to hearing what buttermilk does for it. He calls for 1/4 cup heavy cream, which isn't a staple chez moi but I will sub in 1/2 and 1/2,, which I do have, and the rest milk. 

I was definitely referring to the Levovitz recipe. Whether I make it or not all depends...

 

Oh - he does say that all whole milk is fine.

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

mweinstein@eGstaff.org

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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I often substitute yoghurt / buttermilk / milk for each other in cake recipes with no ill effects, it really just depends on what I have in the fridge on bake day!

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Interestingly, here was David’s response on his blog, to my question:

 

Quote

Buttermilk would likely curdle when heated so I wouldn’t advise it. (If you’re going to more tartness, you could use some crème fraîche.) If you do give it a go with buttermilk, let us know how it turns out. 

 


Edited by weinoo (log)

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

mweinstein@eGstaff.org

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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This one I made this am - creme fraiche and milk - no curdle. There was no curdle in the buttermilk one either. I suspect the eggs and flour prevent the curdle.

 

10CD6B3E-DC2D-47E4-A6F7-4A8A016519F5.thumb.jpeg.5d768524d57c43497d081281e0c6b43c.jpeg

 

image.thumb.jpg.81a4f35ae30347c24f32cb53101957cd.jpg

 

 


Edited by Kerry Beal (log)
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My flaugnarde looked just like all those pictures. I confess to eating a lot of it while it was still warm, and that was very nice. I mixed low-fat milk with 1/2 and 1/2 so it approximated whole milk. I think my baking pan was a bit bigger than it needed to be and I used a bit more plum than the 12 oz suggested.  If I used the same pan again I might up the custard by 50 %. A very good use for end-of-season plums. I had mostly Black Cats and a couple of other suspects.

 

Interesting about the buttermilk curdling vs not. I would assume it changes the flavor markedly, no? 

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It doesn't curdle if prepared correctly.  I have cookbooks from the late 19th century with recipes for buttermilk pie, puddings, fillings for pastries.

Buttermilk - cultured buttermilk kept longer than regular milk, the same as "clabbered" milk.  Before refrigeration, especially in the south, it was stored in crocks set into barrels, tubs or if they had a "spring house"  directly in the stone "run off" from the spring, which was often extremely cold.  

But cooks in New England used it, the Pennsylvania Dutch used it extensively.  

 

When I was little, one of the most common nursery foods was buttermilk blancmange - one of my earliest food memories.  

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"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

 

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I made one last night (this is like the easiest dessert except for maybe roasted fruits), but with whole milk, since it's what I had on hand. And I used a smaller baking dish, with about 8 oz. of fruit, so I used 2/3 c milk and 2 eggs.  Basically, 2/3 of the recipe.

 

Figs from my corner fruit guy, blueberries (a few), and a plum. Really delish, probably could've baked for another 5 minutes.

 

44709247242_5f17e56955_z.jpg

 

And i started in the steam girl, with steam, and then changed to plain heat after 10 minutes.  Would cooking under steam keep the custard more tender?

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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

mweinstein@eGstaff.org

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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After sampling my flaugnarde leftovers the next day cold and then reheated a bit, I'm in the warm camp. And I don't think it really suffered at all by being warmed in the microwave the next day. Totally comfort food. Strangely, although my mother never made a custard anything in her whole life, my brother is a fool for flan and I like just about any custardy thing. Clearly it's the baby food I never got.

 

And yes, the second best thing about this flaugnarde is how simple it is. I love a recipe that takes longer to preheat the oven than it does to pull together the parts . Mitch, did you roast the fruit first? I'm sure that would be yummy, but wow have I gotten lazy.

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6 hours ago, weinoo said:

I made one last night (this is like the easiest dessert except for maybe roasted fruits), but with whole milk, since it's what I had on hand. And I used a smaller baking dish, with about 8 oz. of fruit, so I used 2/3 c milk and 2 eggs.  Basically, 2/3 of the recipe.

 

Figs from my corner fruit guy, blueberries (a few), and a plum. Really delish, probably could've baked for another 5 minutes.

 

44709247242_5f17e56955_z.jpg

 

And i started in the steam girl, with steam, and then changed to plain heat after 10 minutes.  Would cooking under steam keep the custard more tender?

Likely not. It's not a really 'tender' custard to start with. I baked both of mine in the steam girl but with convection and 25º F less.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Katie Meadow said:

Mitch, did you roast the fruit first? I'm sure that would be yummy, but wow have I gotten lazy.

No, but afterward I thought about it. Might be really good with less than ideal fruit.


Edited by weinoo (log)
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Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

mweinstein@eGstaff.org

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

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On 9/15/2018 at 1:37 PM, andiesenji said:

Buttermilk custard, buttermilk pie is an old southern tradition.  I grew up eating the various types of these desserts.

Here is one

Recipe

and another

 

Some that are similar are made with "clabbered" milk  which requires raw milk to start.  A good substitute is, if 

you can find pasteurized milk that is not ultra-pasteurized, like Whole Foods and Trader Joes carry.

Is heated and cooked with lemon juice so it starts to form curds but instead of straining out the curds to make fresh cheese, you stir them back into the whey with a whisk and add 1/4 cup of heavy cream for each quart of milk.

You can hold this for 2-3 days in the fridge before using in your recipe.

 


1. BUTTERMILK ALL THE THINGS

2. da heck do I do with clabbered milk? Sounds interesting; never heard of it.

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22 hours ago, jrshaul said:


1. BUTTERMILK ALL THE THINGS

2. da heck do I do with clabbered milk? Sounds interesting; never heard of it.

If you google it, there are at least a dozen pages.


"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

 

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21 hours ago, andiesenji said:

If you google it, there are at least a dozen pages.

They're mostly hippy nonsense from raw-milk fantatics. I don't trust dessert recipes from websites where everything is made with palm sugar to make it "paleo."

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Prairie Homestead's web site talks about clabbered milk, why it's an unfamiliar concept to many people nowadays, and how it's used. No nonsense, just good old food history: 20 Ways to Use Sour Raw Milk. It has bonus information: finally, I've read a plausible explanation for the brand name of Clabber Girl baking powder.

 

I still remember my grandmother saying things along the lines of "when I saw you up that tree, my guts just clabbered". By the time I came along, milk was pasteurized and clabber was a thing of the past - but it was common during her childhood.

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Nancy Smith, aka "Smithy"
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According to a nutritionist friend, KEFIR is equivalent to clabbered milk and can me made with regular milk.  The nutritional profile is almost identical, with none of the problems of obtaining raw milk and without the possibilities of a pathogen sneaking in.

 

 

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"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

 

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On 9/21/2018 at 4:42 PM, Smithy said:

Prairie Homestead's web site talks about clabbered milk, why it's an unfamiliar concept to many people nowadays, and how it's used. No nonsense, just good old food history: 20 Ways to Use Sour Raw Milk. It has bonus information: finally, I've read a plausible explanation for the brand name of Clabber Girl baking powder.

 


It's also advocating raw milk, something I would dissuade given the dangers. I'll give the Trader Joe's version a shot in a buttermilk pie, though I suspect the stronger fermented flavor of the homemade stuff may require adjustment of the recipe.

 

On 9/21/2018 at 10:53 PM, andiesenji said:

According to a nutritionist friend, KEFIR is equivalent to clabbered milk and can me made with regular milk.  The nutritional profile is almost identical, with none of the problems of obtaining raw milk and without the possibilities of a pathogen sneaking in.

 

 


Commercial kefir has a thin consistency and far less fat than the procedure described by Smithy.  Presumably, homemade stuff is thicker.

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12 hours ago, jrshaul said:


It's also advocating raw milk, something I would dissuade given the dangers. I'll give the Trader Joe's version a shot in a buttermilk pie, though I suspect the stronger fermented flavor of the homemade stuff may require adjustment of the recipe.

 


Commercial kefir has a thin consistency and far less fat than the procedure described by Smithy.  Presumably, homemade stuff is thicker.

Yes, the homemade stuff is much thicker. But there are a couple of commercial brand that are thicker, more like the cultured buttermilk and unsweetened.


"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett

 

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