Chocolate brands - What's good and bad?

[Rajala]

6 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

For white, I like Callebaut Zephyr.  Again, it has soy, but is moderately priced and not achingly sweet.

 

 

Just got a bag of that. I really enjoy white chocolate, but I'm not sure which of the ones I've tried I like the most. The white one from Michel Cluizel I have might be a favourite, I think it's called Ivoire. 

[Avachocolate]

+1 for Valrhona Opalys for my favorite white...although have not tried Cluizel's white yet...

[Rajala]

The thing with Opalys is that it’s crazy expensive for being a white chocolate. 

[paulraphael]

This thread is full of white chocolate discussion.

[Avachocolate]

17 minutes ago, Rajala said:

The thing with Opalys is that it’s crazy expensive for being a white chocolate. 

Well, I just know that whenever I reach for any Valrhona product that it will cost me an arm and a leg...lol.

But some of their chocolates are worth it for me...

[Rajala]

1 hour ago, Avachocolate said:

Well, I just know that whenever I reach for any Valrhona product that it will cost me an arm and a leg...lol.

But some of their chocolates are worth it for me...

 

Haha, I’m not saying it’s not. White chocolate usually is cheaper than real chocolate from all other brands. I guess Valrhona is going to Valrhona.

[Katie Meadow]

For baking I really do like Valrhona unsweetened cocoa. Admittedly it isn't cheap. However, if you want some plain bittersweet chocolate for eating--or for multipurpses-- Valrhona bars of 71 percent can be had for a very good deal from Trader Joe's, and I think it's excellent.

[Rajala]

I haven't even tried the standard varieties from Valrhona, maybe I should.

 

Will get some Felchlin samples tomorrow!

[chromedome]

On 7/6/2018 at 3:52 PM, Rajala said:

 

Yeah, I don't think it will happen all the time. He mentioned something about soy being dangerous because they use gasoline to get the lecithin out or something, haven't fact checked that yet though. It comes and goes as well, I guess - what people have concerns about.

 

Hexane is the solvent that's used to remove the oil from soybeans, and then everything else is processed from the resulting meal. It's nasty stuff, but it's pretty thoroughly evaporated from the end product.

Whenever I see vegans posting stuff on the order of "Do you know what's *really* in those chicken nuggets?" I'll sometimes counter with "Do you know how your textured soy products are made?" On the rare occasions I care to engage anymore, I'll often encounter someone who was previously unaware that most soybean products are made from GMO beans and processed with industrial solvents (even the organic ones can legally contain up to 10% GMO beans, and it's poorly policed, but organic soy is not processed with hexane). 

But then, I still (unbelievably) run across vegetarians who opt for Jello as the "safe" dessert when dining with omnivores, because it has no milk or eggs. Go figure.

[Rajala]

Thanks for explaining @chromedome

 

So I got seven Felchlin samples today. I tried them all, to much remorse. They're all bloody fantastic. But on a brighter note, they pushed Valrhona off their high horse for me.

 

For anyone who's interested and doesn't know; Original Beans seems to be associated or maybe even owned by Felchlin, the "callets" from Original Beans carry the same logo as the ones from Felchlin.

[chromedome]

22 minutes ago, Rajala said:

Thanks for explaining @chromedome

 

NP. I often write about food and nutrition, so keeping up with food science and the corresponding trends/fads/pseudoscience/anti-science is more or less a job requirement.

[Amintika]

I second the positive comments for Valrhona cocoa, and Valrhona in general. I also find Amadei to be very good for baking, and use a lot of their 70% pistoles as well as their white chocolate pistoles (which correspond to their white and black toscano chocolates in bar form). Somewhat expensive, but the dark chocolate has a wonderfully rich flavour, which I find well suited for things like chocolate tarts - especially if cut with a sprinkle of freeze dried raspberries or something. Perhaps a bit overwhelming if used throughout a cake or the like, in which case I find Valrhona (e.g. Caraibe) suits better. I find Amadei somewhat easier to temper and work with too, but I'm not very skilled in that department.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Amintika (log)

[Rajala]

On 7/6/2018 at 9:07 PM, understandingcocoa said:

Casa Luker was a big no on taste for me, I taste tasted it on a group of friends (after getting free samples of at least 10 varieties) and it was negative feedback all round. It all seemed to have a very smokey/whisky like taste too.

 

Interested to see what you think of them!

 

 

 

So, I've tried around 10 different variations from Casa Luker, and you're right. Almost all of them have some alcohol taste to them, one of my colleagues think so as well. I did find one of their chocolates that I liked. Tumaco 65%, it have nice biscuity taste to it. I think I might use that for cheap things, since the price for 10 KG is good.

 

One colleague thought all the samples were good. This was Casa Luker, Michel Cluizel and Felchlin. So I guess that it is like some of you wrote, people don't really notice a difference. And we can add to that, that the bonbons will be filled with something as well.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Rajala (log)

[Rajala]

Made a blind test with two colleagues just now.

 

1. They liked the most expensive brand the best (Felchlin), 2nd place for Michel Cluizel and 3rd place for Casa Luker (one of the Casa Luker chocolates scored high though).

2. The variations that I liked the most were the ones that they disliked the most.  

3. Takeaway = Sweetness wins over taste with this test with two people.

[paulraphael]

On 7/16/2018 at 9:25 AM, Rajala said:

Made a blind test with two colleagues just now.

 

1. They liked the most expensive brand the best (Felchlin), 2nd place for Michel Cluizel and 3rd place for Casa Luker (one of the Casa Luker chocolates scored high though).

2. The variations that I liked the most were the ones that they disliked the most.  

3. Takeaway = Sweetness wins over taste with this test with two people.

 

I bet you'd find that once you get to the level Cluizel / Felchin / Amadei, etc, you'll find much more difference between the particular varieties than between the brands. Especially when you deal with the fickleness of personal taste ... all of these makers' single-origin chocolates are so distinctive that they're likely to be divisive. 

[Rajala]

33 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

 

I bet you'd find that once you get to the level Cluizel / Felchin / Amadei, etc, you'll find much more difference between the particular varieties than between the brands. Especially when you deal with the fickleness of personal taste ... all of these makers' single-origin chocolates are so distinctive that they're likely to be divisive. 

 

Yeah the single origin ones where really disliked by my colleagues, but I really love Cluizel's Mokaya and Mangaro. Will buy a bit of those when I've cleared out some of my "stock" I have at the moment, and when the temperature is back at normal levels - so that I can work with the chocolate as well.

[pastrygirl]

51 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

 

I bet you'd find that once you get to the level Cluizel / Felchin / Amadei, etc, you'll find much more difference between the particular varieties than between the brands. Especially when you deal with the fickleness of personal taste ... all of these makers' single-origin chocolates are so distinctive that they're likely to be divisive. 

 

Agree that all the single origin chocolates don't always have wide appeal.  We chefs tend to geek out on origins and varietals but how much of the general public does?  How niche do you want to be?  Yes, there are the avid consumers who get excited by high percentages and single origins but there are many more who just want milk chocolate and don't know the difference between truffles and fudge.  I like the Felchlin 60% because it's a good all-around blend that tastes like chocolate.  No raisins, no tobacco, no woodsy notes or berry acidity, just chocolate so it goes with a lot of other flavors.  So I think there's a place for exotic bars, but for a bonbon business I'd pick more neutral chocolates for the shells and focus on fillings and decorations.

 

 

[Amintika]

Single origin chocolates remind me a lot of single origin coffees; once you've developed a palate for them, and have become interested, there's a myriad of tastes that are very enjoyable. However, to the layman they tend to taste quite different to what is generically expected, and they can often exenuate few very specific tastes, whether acidity, or earthiness, or even less usual sweetness (e.g. liquorice flavours) that are a shock to the palate if you just expect 'chocolate' or 'coffee'. Whilst I have won some friends over with the Valrhona single estate tasting boxes, it's not so usual.

[keychris]

5 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

 

I like the Felchlin 60% because it's a good all-around blend that tastes like chocolate.  No raisins, no tobacco, no woodsy notes or berry acidity, just chocolate so it goes with a lot of other flavors.

 

hey, ditto  I was using their 52% but it was a little too sweet for me.

[paulraphael]

7 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

 

Agree that all the single origin chocolates don't always have wide appeal.  We chefs tend to geek out on origins and varietals but how much of the general public does? 

 

I'm also suggesting that even among enthusiasts, if you're doing a tasting of a bunch of SO chocolates, your favorite might be low on another chef's list, and vice versa. It's just the nature of the beast when you're dealing with distinctive flavors. 

[Rajala]

Tried three different varieties from Valrhona I hadn't tried earlier. Nothing amazing to be honest. I've tried four dark chocolates from Valrhona and Manjari is my favorite one out of those four.

 

Did get some samples of the passion fruit, strawberry and almond "chocolate". Really interesting actually, you get that chocolate texture with the fruity flavor. I'll probably grab a bag of passion fruit next time I order something. Now I want to try the yuzu and raspberry ones that come out in September.

[paulraphael]

2 hours ago, Rajala said:

Tried three different varieties from Valrhona I hadn't tried earlier. Nothing amazing to be honest. I've tried four dark chocolates from Valrhona and Manjari is my favorite one out of those four.

 

Did get some samples of the passion fruit, strawberry and almond "chocolate". Really interesting actually, you get that chocolate texture with the fruity flavor. I'll probably grab a bag of passion fruit next time I order something. Now I want to try the yuzu and raspberry ones that come out in September.

 

Did you try any of their Grand Cru single origins? I haven't had these, but suspect that if Valrhona's making anything it amazing, you'd find it there. 

 

Valrhona made its name with blends like manjari and guanaja, which are less amazing than solid and balanced. They make these with complete consistency and predictable functional qualities, so pastry chefs can buy them year after year and know exactly how they'll behave. Artisanal chocolates are getting more like wine from a particular vintage that won't ever be exactly replicated. 

[Rajala]

1 minute ago, paulraphael said:

 

Did you try any of their Grand Cru single origins? I haven't had these, but suspect that if Valrhona's making anything it amazing, you'd find it there. 

  

Valrhona made its name with blends like manjari and guanaja, which are less amazing than solid and balanced. They make these with complete consistency and predictable functional qualities, so pastry chefs can buy them year after year and know exactly how they'll behave. Artisanal chocolates are getting more like wine from a particular vintage that won't ever be exactly replicated. 

 

The ones I got sent to me were Nyangbo, Andoa and Guanaja. Well, I can appreciate always knowing what I will get, so I can understand that part.  

[Amintika]

On 7/20/2018 at 2:32 PM, Rajala said:

 

The ones I got sent to me were Nyangbo, Andoa and Guanaja. Well, I can appreciate always knowing what I will get, so I can understand that part.  

 

They're bad value (and available cheaper elsewhere) but Valrhona do offer these tasting assortments of their Grand Crus: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Valrhona-Grand-Chocolate-Assortment-160g/dp/B00O7Y2BM0/

 

That said, I agree with paul regarding the use of Valrhona, it's not something I use to make chocolates or to eat as they are, they form a consistent part of baked deserts and pastry where I can very confidently predict how they'll behave and taste. I haven't found something like an Amadei Porcelana from Valrhona.