Lasagna Wars

[quiet1]

22 minutes ago, Duvel said:

Thanks, but that would defy the purpose. I usually serve scallop carpaccio with caramelized nuts and a sprinkling of wheat to catch all the allergics, then weed out the rest with my lasagna ...

 

'As someone who has a serious shellfish allergy, it really isn't a joke. Obviously you know the constraints of this particular setting and if people with allergies would know to be cautious, but as a general rule 'secret' ingredients from any of the major allergy contenders (like shellfish and nuts) aren't a great idea unless you enjoy your meal being interrupted by calling an ambulance, and a 'secret' ingredient of shellfish seemed to be being suggested as a general trick, not just for a specialty food competition, which is why I commented.

 

(And even with a competition, I don't know that I'd assume everyone would know to think there might be stealth allergens - depends a lot on the context of the competition. Though hopefully the competition itself would have some kind of CYA 'may contain...' disclaimer to remind people they can't assume they know what will be in things.)

 

To the original topic - perhaps consider noodle replacement alternatives also? There is a place here that does a lasagna with slices zucchini instead of noodles, and while their iteration isn't that great, and I think I'd keep some noodles, that could be something to play with. (I'm thinking something like alternating noodle and noodle-replacement every other noodle layer, something like that. So you have the pasta texture and flavor still and it doesn't seem like a fad 'zoodle' type thing.) Maybe something like thinly sliced mushroom? Zucchini doesn't add much and is far too wet. 

 

(Oh, and further consultation on the tiny meatball thing I mentioned earlier - they were approximately pea-sized. So really quite small. But with a seasoned meat mixture like you'd use for normal meatballs, not just ground meat.)

[jmacnaughtan]

I occasionally like to add black pudding to my bolognese.  It makes it really rich

 

It's also good to cook the meat as a whole piece in the sauce, then shred it and stir it back in.  The texture's different from a standard sauce, but I like it.

[rotuts]

if you are leaning towards ricotta

 

consider cottage cheese.   it is similar to ricotta but has more flavor

 

' process ' until smooth

 

and make sure there is a little fennel seed in the dish

 

not too much , but a decent hint

 

to me , fennel seed and of course the plant tastes like liquorish  

 

and Im not a fan of liquorish    but there needs to be ' not too much '  in lasagna that's ' Italian '

 

if you prefer  noodles you have to boil , of the brand of your choice

 

soak them in hot water  

 

soaking lasagna noodles in hot water

 

some people feel ' boil ' noodles have more flavor and a better chew.

 

best of luck and please report back

 

[Duvel]

6 hours ago, quiet1 said:

 

'As someone who has a serious shellfish allergy, it really isn't a joke. Obviously you know the constraints of this particular setting and if people with allergies would know to be cautious, but as a general rule 'secret' ingredients from any of the major allergy contenders (like shellfish and nuts) aren't a great idea unless you enjoy your meal being interrupted by calling an ambulance, and a 'secret' ingredient of shellfish seemed to be being suggested as a general trick, not just for a specialty food competition, which is why I commented.

 

(And even with a competition, I don't know that I'd assume everyone would know to think there might be stealth allergens - depends a lot on the context of the competition. Though hopefully the competition itself would have some kind of CYA 'may contain...' disclaimer to remind people they can't assume they know what will be in things.)

 

Thanks again for your insight. I think I answered the OPs question and I leave it to the reading eGulleteer to make a concise decision whether to use it and to whom to serve. I personally find it a bit unnecessary to issue a warning when we discuss single ingredients.

 

BTW: I do carry the yellow epipen (0.3 mg) - which color is yours ?

[Chris Hennes]

I’ve made both the spinach and the bechamel lasagnas from Cook’s Illustrated. I liked their treatment of the no-boil pasta, which I thought gave a final product that was much more like fresh pasta. But for a “war”? Go big or go home! Make your own pasta :). Roll it thin, and make all your layers of filling thin. Then you get a lot of layers, which makes for a gorgeous presentation because it will slice very cleanly. Bugiali alternates bechamel, bolognese, cheese layers. I think last time I made it I wound up with twelve layers, it was glorious.

[Chris Hennes]

16 hours ago, catdaddy said:

Is that the one with pepperoni chopped up in the bolonese?

I don’t think so, I feel like I’d remember that. My recollection is that the CI bolognese “secret” was to use milk to make the meat mix more tender. Otherwise I think it was pretty similar to others out there, particularly Bugiali.

[Okanagancook]

@Chris Hennes  This is also my favourite lasagna to make.  

[rotuts]

@catdaddy

 

what i think is most important 

 

is this be the best LS you've ever made

 

by your standards and your taste 

 

that being said :

 

I started making LS based on the TestKitchens Rx probably from their first season

 

it had meat.  perhaps three kinds , and ground.  it had ricotta enriched w eggs and fresh basil

 

etc.

 

it was covered in foil initially

 

and the tip I really enjoyed was that the foil was sprayed w PAM-ish so it didn't stick to the top 

 

and was removed for the final portion in the oven.    their was some cream for a Panade-ish 

 

and the meat was 'grey'd' not browned.

 

what the real point ?

 

My father had many students  all over most of the globe

 

two sets came to visit and they were Italians

 

I made this exact same LS  for each group

 

granted  we had local BayArea sourdough 

 

and some decent Ridge Zinfandel

 

but they said this was the best LS they ever had.

 

before we got to bottle 3.

 

I believe them , as I saw their reaction at first taste

 

LS for Competitions needs Meat.

 

esp if their are Italians involved

 

granted

 

if LS is :

 

a layered experience

 

with flat noodles involved

 

the the sky is the limit.

 

but Italian ?

 

meat. ground. w enough ' white-cheezie '  ( your take on this is fine )

 

between the layers.

 

hope to see your entry

 

ask toi pic the others !

[cakewalk]

5 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

I’ve made both the spinach and the bechamel lasagnas from Cook’s Illustrated. I liked their treatment of the no-boil pasta, which I thought gave a final product that was much more like fresh pasta. But for a “war”? Go big or go home! Make your own pasta :). Roll it thin, and make all your layers of filling thin. Then you get a lot of layers, which makes for a gorgeous presentation because it will slice very cleanly. Bugiali alternates bechamel, bolognese, cheese layers. I think last time I made it I wound up with twelve layers, it was glorious.

I just want to second this idea of having many layers. Several years ago I was at (of all places) a bar mitzvah luncheon. It was a dairy buffet meal, and they had lasagne. The lasagne itself was nothing to write home about taste-wise, but it had about 12-15 layers and I still remember it for that reason. It was beautiful, truly eye-catching. I remember mentioning it (on the order of: "Look at this lasagne! I can't believe how many layers it has!"), but my comments got little by way of response. Not much of a foodie crowd.  But all those layers were really striking. Myself, I always make a veggie lasagne with a bechamel, and I find that dried porcinis do a lion's share of work.

[Lisa Shock]

I'd like to point out that some of the best I've ever made had a couple layers where I used roasted zucchini strips instead of noodles.  I just sprinkled some olive oil and salt on top and roasted on parchment. The roasting got the water out, and the flavor was like artichokes. I used a mandoline to cut thin strips. There was a lot of shrinkage, but it was a nice, concentrated flavor.

 

Another trick I have used in a veggie version was making a layer of artichoke leaf pasta and bechemel. (a very thin layer) I par-cooked the noodles. For the sauce, I used a liberal amount of buerre noisette. Everyone asked what the 'vegetable' was that was so delicious. (I had gotten the pasta a while earlier at a local fancy supermarket when they ran a clearance, and had been waiting to use it)

 

Artichokes themselves are delicious, too. If you can source 6-8 of them for a 9x12 pan, you can break them down to just bottoms, cut into 8 wedges each and saute lightly in butter, or roast/microwave until almost tender to concentrate flavor. I personally would make a bechemel sauce with a little tarragon for this layer. (even though the herb is mostly used in French cooking, I find it brings up 'green' flavors very well)

 

I tend to add roasted garlic to a ricotta layer, if used. And, a little chopped frozen spinach (well drained) adds color and flavor. That said, I agree that a ricotta layer is not necessary.

 

But lots of layers can be good (I tend to use a deep roasting pan for mine) -as long as it sticks together. You want a good presentation, not a collapsing house of cards. I also tend to put low moisture mozzarella on top of filling layers to keep things together and to help prevent color seepage.

 

You know, you can layer green, white, and red like the Italian flag on its side...

[catdaddy]

9 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

I’ve made both the spinach and the bechamel lasagnas from Cook’s Illustrated. I liked their treatment of the no-boil pasta, which I thought gave a final product that was much more like fresh pasta. But for a “war”? Go big or go home! Make your own pasta :). Roll it thin, and make all your layers of filling thin. Then you get a lot of layers, which makes for a gorgeous presentation because it will slice very cleanly. Bugiali alternates bechamel, bolognese, cheese layers. I think last time I made it I wound up with twelve layers, it was glorious.

Many thin layers is brilliant.

[catdaddy]

3 hours ago, Lisa Shock said:

I'd like to point out that some of the best I've ever made had a couple layers where I used roasted zucchini strips instead of noodles.  I just sprinkled some olive oil and salt on top and roasted on parchment. The roasting got the water out, and the flavor was like artichokes. I used a mandoline to cut thin strips. There was a lot of shrinkage, but it was a nice, concentrated flavor.

 

Another trick I have used in a veggie version was making a layer of artichoke leaf pasta and bechemel. (a very thin layer) I par-cooked the noodles. For the sauce, I used a liberal amount of buerre noisette. Everyone asked what the 'vegetable' was that was so delicious. (I had gotten the pasta a while earlier at a local fancy supermarket when they ran a clearance, and had been waiting to use it)

 

Artichokes themselves are delicious, too. If you can source 6-8 of them for a 9x12 pan, you can break them down to just bottoms, cut into 8 wedges each and saute lightly in butter, or roast/microwave until almost tender to concentrate flavor. I personally would make a bechemel sauce with a little tarragon for this layer. (even though the herb is mostly used in French cooking, I find it brings up 'green' flavors very well)

 

I tend to add roasted garlic to a ricotta layer, if used. And, a little chopped frozen spinach (well drained) adds color and flavor. That said, I agree that a ricotta layer is not necessary.

 

But lots of layers can be good (I tend to use a deep roasting pan for mine) -as long as it sticks together. You want a good presentation, not a collapsing house of cards. I also tend to put low moisture mozzarella on top of filling layers to keep things together and to help prevent color seepage.

 

You know, you can layer green, white, and red like the Italian flag on its side...

Love the idea for an artichoke layer and roasted garlic with ricotta. As mentioned above. Go big or go home.

[catdaddy]

Awesome ideas. Thank you!

 

I'm going to do a dress rehersal next week. Will try to post some photos.

[rotuts]

@catdaddy 

 

do the Rules of War say you can only make one ?

 

why not Meat LS  on the Italianish side of things

 

and a Veg version   lets call it the California side of things for no reason what so ever

 

that would would have sliced artichoke bottoms   , spinach    usual cheeses and tomato sauce.  maybe béchamel for that one   but some basil too

[Lisa Shock]

18 hours ago, catdaddy said:

Awesome ideas. Thank you!

 

I'm going to do a dress rehersal next week. Will try to post some photos.

 

As a competitor myself, and occasional judge, I'd plan on doing multiple practice runs, just in case.

 

BTW, one thing you might try, if you are making the noodles from scratch, is to make this into a timpano.  It's impressive looking when served whole, unlike most lasagna which is more about looking at a pan. You can change the shape depending on the type of bucket or bowl used. You can make it very tall, with lots of layers. (you can just use lasagna layers, no need to make all the dishes that go into regular timpano, I think it will be neater with lasagna stuff inside)  I would use the pie-crust style crust, I have tried the noodle crust and it develops hard areas. Inside, you can make the flat noodles for the layers into sheets and cut into big circles so you simply have one circle per layer. (remember, fresh noodles do not need to be cooked in lasagna) I would slice a few vent holes in each circle, and aggressively vent the top by cutting thin shapes out, It can be served upside down, like in the linked thread, or, if you can remove it carefully, right side up and maybe those vent holes could be made into a decoration. Try researching pie tops for this. You might be able to make this in a springform pan, as well.

 

That all said, in most competitions, taste is 60% of the points, so make sure you've got that down. Then, work on appearance. Remember that color and contrast are important.

[catdaddy]

8 hours ago, rotuts said:

@catdaddy 

 

do the Rules of War say you can only make one ?

 

why not Meat LS  on the Italianish side of things

 

and a Veg version   lets call it the California side of things for no reason what so ever

 

that would would have sliced artichoke bottoms   , spinach    usual cheeses and tomato sauce.  maybe béchamel for that one   but some basil too

Great idea but available time will allow for only one. Holiday party the night before, work, and etc.

[catdaddy]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I have made a first run at my competion lasagna. After realizing time was indeed the most limiting factor I decided to use an established recipe. Thanks to an above post I used Bugialli's LASAGNA AL FORNO starting on page 221 of his book THE FINE ART OF ITALIAN COOKING. Knowing I would make changes later I tried to follow the recipe closely. Fish sauce instead of porcinis and all egg pasta instead of egg and spinach were the only concessions I made

 

Wow. The meat sauce was deeply flavored and the pasta worked beautifully. The whole casserole was a little dry so next time, for the Wars, I'll make the meat sauce and the balsamella a little thinner. Love using the first layer of pasta to eventually enclose the whole thing. Also I'll make both pastas next time and make as many layers as possible.

 

I cooked it 5 minutes longer than the 25 called for and it was plenty hot at 180 degreesF. Note in the photo the crispy edges. The entire top layer was crispy and TENDER. YUM. Even my wife who tends to like Italian/American dishes in the traditional style (tomatoes and ricotta here) loved it.

 

I like my chances.

Lasagna.pdf

[TicTac]

Would like to hear about the Bugialli's lasagna al forno recipe - please!

[JoNorvelleWalker]

8 hours ago, TicTac said:

Would like to hear about the Bugialli's lasagna al forno recipe - please!

 

The Fine Art of Italian Cooking: The Classic Cookbook, Updated & Expanded 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Smithy
Adjusted link to be Amazon-friendly (log)

[Lisa Shock]

Thanks for posting the picture. I am noting that your top is dry noodles. For me, one of the highlights of lasagna is a layer of browned cheese on top. I usually spread a little red sauce around and use mozzarella topped with either rows of tiny basil leaves, or a sprinkling of dry oregano, with paper-thin slices of red onion on top of that. (the onion gets a bit crunchy) Others will undoubtedly chime in here, but, I think you definitely need a topper.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

37 minutes ago, Lisa Shock said:

Others will undoubtedly chime in here, but, I think you definitely need a topper.

 

Not for Bugialli's recipe.

 

[chromedome]

It's a personal preference thing. For some people, that crunchy top layer of baked noodle is the whole point, like the crisp skin of a perfectly roasted chicken or turkey. 

 

For others - including myself - it's something to pick off and discard. 

[catdaddy]

2 hours ago, chromedome said:

It's a personal preference thing. For some people, that crunchy top layer of baked noodle is the whole point, like the crisp skin of a perfectly roasted chicken or turkey. 

 

For others - including myself - it's something to pick off and discard. 

Normally I would agree with you on the whole top layer thing. But somehow using fresh pasta and rolling it relatively thin it becomes really good. One of my favorite parts of the dish.

[catdaddy]

6 hours ago, Lisa Shock said:

Thanks for posting the picture. I am noting that your top is dry noodles. For me, one of the highlights of lasagna is a layer of browned cheese on top. I usually spread a little red sauce around and use mozzarella topped with either rows of tiny basil leaves, or a sprinkling of dry oregano, with paper-thin slices of red onion on top of that. (the onion gets a bit crunchy) Others will undoubtedly chime in here, but, I think you definitely need a topper.

Yes, a topper would be excellent. It would however make serving it just a little bit messy. There is plenty of flavor already there and the ease of serving is a big plus.

[catdaddy]

18 hours ago, TicTac said:

Would like to hear about the Bugialli's lasagna al forno recipe - please!

The recipe uses; a meat sauce containing pork, beef, and chicken and only a tablespoon of tomato paste, a thick bechamel, a half'n'half blend of mozz and parm, and fresh thinnly rolled pasta. The result is biggly flavored and easy to serve.