Baking with Myhrvold's "Modernist Bread: The Art and Science"

[JoNorvelleWalker]

9 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

I thought that the consumer-branded KAF AP was Sir Galahad? I know they don't label it as such, but it has exactly the same protein content (11.7%). It's basically equivalent to the French T55, which is the standard for French lean breads. I just re-read the flour chapter yesterday, what info were you looking for?

 

Just within the King Arthur family we have Sir Galahad, West Coast Artisan (slightly higher ash), Organic Select Artisan (still higher ash, said to be T55 equivalent).  Then in the KAF home flours: AP organic (which is what I generally use), French Style Flour (lower protein, higher ash), and Artisan Bread Flour (11.7% protein with additives).

 

As I recall AP organic compared to Sir Galahad is slightly higher protein and is not enriched.  I must say the Organic Select Artisan calls to me.  Price on amazon is another thing.  Amazon sellers have it re-bagged in five pound packages and in fifty pound bags.  A fifty pound bag I could not get upstairs but I could probably bake through it in six months.

 

In the past I've spoken to KAF about purchasing their professional flours, but it is not for the faint of heart.

 

This is just for King Arthur.  See now why I'm confused?  Plus, actual French T55 is available on amazon...for a price.

 

[Chris Hennes]

2 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

In the past I've spoken to KAF about purchasing their professional flours, but it is not for the faint of heart.

US Foods is one of the local distributors so I was hoping they'd sell it at their "Chef'Store", but no dice.

[Anna N]

7 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

@Anna N what could better than steak and bread?  (Except maybe steak, bread, Boursin, Béarnaise, Bordeaux.)

 

Some wine to accompany it!   Any wine!   I have a single bottle but I am hoarding it for Christmas eve or Christmas day!  

 If you have not yet tried the Modernist lean French bread you don’t know what you’re missing.   

[Anna N]

 

These are the Modernist hamburger buns (the other five are in the oven right now).  Don’t know yet what they taste like but I do know that they smell nothing like hamburger buns I made yesterday. I am suspecting it is the egg in these ones that I am smelling. Yesterday’s buns smelled of fresh bread and I liked that a lot more!   

[Kerry Beal]

Modernist lean - crust is amazing!

 

 

[Chris Hennes]

Last night I made the cinnamon raisin loaf that @Anna N posted about up-topic a few times, but instead of using their cinnamon-raisin filling, I made one of dried cranberries, pecans, brown sugar, and orange zest:

 

Because the filling I used doesn't completely cover the dough, it generally formed a cohesive spiral without too much in the way of big gaps between layers. It also tastes great, if I may say so myself  . I prefer dried cranberries to raisins, to be honest.

[Anna N]

 

Inside the Modernist Bread hamburger buns. 

[Chris Hennes]

Today's project: Modernist Farmer's Bread with three different inclusions...

 

Sprouted Rye

 

Pressure-Caramelized Sprouted Rye

 

Pressure-Caramelized Rye

 

Here goes...

[Chris Hennes]

And the results are in...

 

It turns out it's very difficult to tell the difference between the two pressure-caramelized inclusions, but my wife and I both like both of them better than the plain sprouted grain. That said, all three breads are excellent loaves, even made via the high-temperature final proof method (seven hours at 80°F).

[Chris Hennes]

I wrote to King Arthur and asked them if their AP was identical to their Sir Galahad, or if there was some difference between the two. Here is the response I got:

Quote

These are the same flour.  They are simply labeled differently for consumer use vs. bulk sales.

 

[Chris Hennes]

Just a quick note for anyone considering hand-mixing the pita dough (the books says it's possible) -- don't do it! The step where you need to incorporate almost 14% oil into the already-mixed dough was basically impossible. After five minutes (that felt like twenty!) of trying to get it to incorporate, I tossed the mess into the stand mixer and let it rip: viola! Done. So while I'm a fan of hand-mixing dough, in this case I don't think it's feasible.

[Anna N]

 The team have begun to post corrections and clarifications.

 Here.

[chefmd]

Another Pain Rustique.  The most difficult part of making it is waiting for the bread to cool.  Baked in CSO.

[Chris Hennes]

One of the more fascinating (to me) ideas for inclusions is nixtamalized grains. I've made a lot of Mexican food over the years and have been to Mexico several times, so am reasonably familiar with nixtamalized corn. I have always assumed that the flavor of masa was mostly due to the corn, not the nixtamalization. It turns out that's not the case. In the one non-leavened bread recipe in the books, in the section on nixtamalization, they present a recipe for tortillas made from nixtamalized rye. I have both rye and cal (lime), so I had a go at it this afternoon:

 

Here's the nixtamalized rye:

 

It gets ground in a food processor per the recipe, but I think that obviously a real wet grinder (like an Ultra Pride) would be better. As it was, I actually switched to my Blendtec with the dry foods jar when my food processor didn't seem to make much headway. It's got 2% salt in it, which I think was quite a bit too much: personally I suggest something more like 1% would be better.

 

This was a bit stickier than the corn masa I've worked with so it was difficult to roll onto the griddle, so I went with a sort of "slap" motion. It got the job done.

 

They don't puff up much, presumably due to the size of the grain particles, but the overall texture is quite similar to a corn tortilla.

 

So, along the same lines as what they present in the book, lunch today was pastrami, sauerkraut, swiss cheese, and mustard... on a rye tortilla.

 

Alas, no homemade pastrami in the house at the moment, so that's Boar's Head. Still it was a delicious take on the classic pastrami on rye. The tortilla smelled and tasted quite a lot like a corn tortilla -- I was surprised to discover how much of that flavor turns out to be due to the process, not the grain. You could still taste the rye, so it wasn't a drop-in replacement for corn, but it's definitely interesting to play with.

[Kerry Beal]

Couple more modernist lean french loaves 

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

9 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

I wrote to King Arthur and asked them if their AP was identical to their Sir Galahad, or if there was some difference between the two. Here is the response I got:

 

 

Thanks, Chris!  Do you know if the Organic AP is equivalent?  I'd also love to know which of their flours King Arthur thinks is closest to T55.  The ash in the AP seems far too low from what I see.

 

[Chris Hennes]

9 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Thanks, Chris!  Do you know if the Organic AP is equivalent?  I'd also love to know which of their flours King Arthur thinks is closest to T55.  The ash in the AP seems far too low from what I see.

 

No, I don't know. If I have time maybe I'll give them a call this week.

[Chris Hennes]

42 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

Thanks, Chris!  Do you know if the Organic AP is equivalent?  I'd also love to know which of their flours King Arthur thinks is closest to T55.  The ash in the AP seems far too low from what I see.

 

I take it back, actually their website is quite clear:

Quote

SIR GALAHAD

11.7% Protein • .50% Ash • Malted, Enriched

This is the flour of choice for artisan breads and yeasted pastries. Equivalent to a French Type 55 (milled from premium hard winter wheat), it can best be described as an all-purpose or low-protein bread flour, making it very versatile in a bakery. It yields a dough that handles easily and has great fermentation tolerance. Ideal for artisan breads, laminated dough, and Neapolitan pizza as well as cookies, scones, and quick breads.

50lb. #12050

 

So, if you are OK with only .50% ash, they think this is the closest. If you really want to get up near .55% ash, they offer:

Quote

ORGANIC SELECT ARTISAN

11.7% Protein • .55% Ash • Malted

 

An organic equivalent to a French Type 55 with slightly more ash (milled from premium hard winter wheat) can best be described as an all-purpose or low-protein bread flour making it very versatile in bakery. Yields a dough that handles easily and has great fermentation tolerance. Ideal for artisan breads, laminated dough, and Neapolitan pizza as well as cookies, scones, and quick breads.

50 lb. #23050

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Chris Hennes
Mis-pasted! (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

9 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

I take it back, actually their website is quite clear:

 

 

I have read this, many times.  I suppose it comes down to the Europeans measuring ash and protein by dry weight, whereas in North America ash and protein are measured at 14% hydration.

 

From the tables in The Taste of Bread (p4), T55 flour measured by US standards would have 0.46% ash.

 

I still question what's going on because Sir Galahad is "milled from premium hard winter wheat" whereas Organic AP is "milled from 100% organic hard red winter and spring wheats".

 

[Chris Hennes]

1 minute ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

I suppose it comes down to the Europeans measuring ash and protein by dry weight, whereas in North America ash and protein are measured at 14% hydration.

Ah! Right, I forgot about that difference. Sounds like I might still have to call!

[Chris Hennes]

4 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

T55 flour measured by US standards would have 0.46% ash.

Hmm, I get .47% (0.473%, actually). Maybe I'm doing it wrong. If it's 14% hydration in the US, then only 86% is dry weight. 0.86 * 0.55 is 0.473. Am I thinking about it wrong? It's getting late here...  

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, Chris Hennes said:

Hmm, I get .47% (0.473%, actually). Maybe I'm doing it wrong. If it's 14% hydration in the US, then only 86% is dry weight. 0.86 * 0.55 is 0.473. Am I thinking about it wrong? It's getting late here...  

 

After The Waxman Special Cocktail and a few sips of soave I decided just to quote the tables.

 

[Kerry Beal]

Modernist panettone. Shaping the dough was an exercise in futility - I ended up pouring it into the pan. I made 6/10's of the 2 kg recipe - thermomix handled the smaller quantity admirably.

 

 

 

 

Like slashing water

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Kerry Beal (log)

[Chris Hennes]

@Kerry Beal, did you bake that in the CSO? I wanted to make them, but I don't have a convection oven and reading the recipe it looked like that's a no-go.

[Kerry Beal]

1 hour ago, Chris Hennes said:

@Kerry Beal, did you bake that in the CSO? I wanted to make them, but I don't have a convection oven and reading the recipe it looked like that's a no-go.

Nope - regular convection oven.