The Bread Topic (2016–)

[andiesenji]

1 hour ago, Smithy said:

 

I know you've posted this trick before, but it bears reiteration anyway. I think it's a great idea.

It certainly makes for a much neater loaf.

I am still surprised that NONE of the bread machine manufacturers have  ever  added this  process to their  instructions.   I have been writing to them and suggesting it for at least 30 years.  I have owned many bread machines.  Currently I still own eleven.  It is especially  important in the horizontal pans with two beaters,  like this 3 pound machine.   I began doing it with my first Zojirushi machine which was a vertical pan but had a "peg" that was inserted through the side of the pan to "catch" the dough and assist in kneading.  It had to be removed before the baked loaf could be extracted from the pan when done.  I began removing both it and the beater at the end of the last knead and  just continued to do it with later machines.

I always put my suggestion in reviews I wrote for machine and in post in the various groups to which I belonged.  The Bread-Baker's digest,  an e-mail group that has existed since before the internet.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

On 11/17/2019 at 7:56 AM, ptw1953 said:

Pain de Mie for my eldest grandson's lunch sandwiches at school - he doesn't like to eat the school dinners. Daft boy!

 

(1) eldest grandson (5 years old) read us a book for the first time, and

 

(2) youngest grandson (1year old) walked for 14 steps for the first time.

 

 

 

 

What great presents you exchanged!

[dtremit]

4 hours ago, andiesenji said:

It certainly makes for a much neater loaf.

I am still surprised that NONE of the bread machine manufacturers have  ever  added this  process to their  instructions.   I have been writing to them and suggesting it for at least 30 years.  I have owned many bread machines.  Currently I still own eleven. 

 

My first bread machine (the Cuisinart CBK-100) actually does have that in the instructions -- and the machine beeps at the appropriate time to remove the paddle. I do miss that feature on the Zo. So maybe someone got your letter!

[andiesenji]

39 minutes ago, dtremit said:

 

My first bread machine (the Cuisinart CBK-100) actually does have that in the instructions -- and the machine beeps at the appropriate time to remove the paddle. I do miss that feature on the Zo. So maybe someone got your letter!

I did have one bread machine,  an  unusual name and only sold here for about a year or less.  It was made in Korea and had a horizontal pan that had twin beaters that were permanently fixed but they  FOLDED DOWN flat which was quite clever.  The pan itself was shallower than I liked so I gave it away.

I have never seen the brand again, at least not the bread machine.  It may have been "Tiger" or something like that.  I seem to recall a  "cat-like" name.

[dtremit]

9 hours ago, andiesenji said:

I did have one bread machine,  an  unusual name and only sold here for about a year or less.  It was made in Korea and had a horizontal pan that had twin beaters that were permanently fixed but they  FOLDED DOWN flat which was quite clever.  The pan itself was shallower than I liked so I gave it away.

I have never seen the brand again, at least not the bread machine.  It may have been "Tiger" or something like that.  I seem to recall a  "cat-like" name.

 

Entirely possible -- Tiger does make bread machines in Japan, though they're better known for rice cookers here.

 

I think the current Breville bread machine has folding paddles.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 6:33 AM, heidih said:

 

Like undesrable mold on cheese - just cut the burned bits off :)i

 

Even with the burned bits cut off the bread suffered a pervasive charcoal note.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

My second batch of bread mixed in the Ankarsrum...

 

 

 

All the world is different.  Tonight's boule proofed even higher than the burned loaf of a couple nights ago.  I steamed the boule in the CSO five minutes or so;  then (carefully) transferred the loaf to the main oven before the top burned.  The aggressive bake was intentional.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

P.S.

 

 

 

[curls]

9 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

P.S.

 

 

 

Looks great. How did it taste?

[dtremit]

9 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

All the world is different.  Tonight's boule proofed even higher than the burned loaf of a couple nights ago.  I steamed the boule in the CSO five minutes or so;  then (carefully) transferred the loaf to the main oven before the top burned.  The aggressive bake was intentional.

 

 

Did you use the "steam" setting in the CSO for this, or "steam bake"? 

 

I have tried some par-baking of boules on "steam bake," but even loaves that are too short for sandwich slices seem to burn on top before they're cooked through. I went way longer than 5 minutes, though.

 

Still trying to figure out the best method to get a deep crust color on top without burning the bottom. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

9 hours ago, curls said:

Looks great. How did it taste?

 

Very good, if I say so myself.  Baguette is gone.  Dinner will be the boule.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

9 hours ago, dtremit said:

 

Did you use the "steam" setting in the CSO for this, or "steam bake"? 

 

I have tried some par-baking of boules on "steam bake," but even loaves that are too short for sandwich slices seem to burn on top before they're cooked through. I went way longer than 5 minutes, though.

 

Still trying to figure out the best method to get a deep crust color on top without burning the bottom. 

 

I used the bread setting.

 

I've never had a problem with burned bottoms, but then I bake on a baking steel.  I suspect half a kg might be a better amount of dough for the CSO.  My boule loaves are typically 600-700 g.  Though if I remember correctly Modernist Bread calls for 850 g in the CSO.

 

 

Edit:  also MB specifies steam bake.

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by JoNorvelleWalker (log)

[dtremit]

1 hour ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I used the bread setting.

 

I've never had a problem with burned bottoms, but then I bake on a baking steel.  I suspect half a kg might be a better amount of dough for the CSO.  My boule loaves are typically 600-700 g.  Though if I remember correctly Modernist Bread calls for 850 g in the CSO.

 

 

Edit:  also MB specifies steam bake.

 

Cool, thank you for the data point! I'll give 5 minutes a try. I'd been doing closer to 20 minutes in the CSO as it's similar to how long I keep the lid on a dutch oven.

 

I don't have any problem getting a normal crust out of my loaves, but they're always pretty dark on the bottom by the time they are cooked through. I'd really like to experiment with a deep mahogany crust, but I know that would leave me with carbon on the bottom.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Last night's boule...

 

 

 

Good, but the baguette baked at the same time was better.  I think my dough still needs more strength.  The best round loaves I've made recently were the ones I'd vacuum sealed and frozen.  If I am not mistaken the vacuum sealing adds considerably to the dough strength.

 

The nice thing is that with the Ankarsrum I can work the dough as much or as little as I please.

 

And not to be negative, the loaf was better than most on the planet and it washed down a considerable quantity of ranch dressing.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

After toast this afternoon my opinion of the boule waxed brighter.  I am blessed to enjoy bread like this.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 5:01 AM, Ann_T said:

Yes I realize that the mill in Illinois was not local. It was just an example of one of many flour mills throughout  the US that sells locally grown milled flour. They also ship. There might be something similar  in your area.

https://www.themillatjaniesfarm.com/

 

 

 

 

 

I just ordered Bay State Milling flour.  Bay State Milling operates a "12,000-cwt modern milling facility" a few miles from here, next county over.  But I had to buy the flour from a dealer @andiesenji recommended in San Diego.  Can't get much less local in the US except the Aleutian islands.  (Or, OK, Hawaii.)

 

[Anna N]

6 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

After toast this afternoon my opinion of the boule waxed brighter.  I am blessed to enjoy bread like this.

 

But you work hard to get it. You have my admiration for all your efforts to perfect your bread. 

[Duvel]

On 11/24/2019 at 7:44 AM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

The nice thing is that with the Ankarsrum I can work the dough as much or as little as I please

 

In my experience time beats mechanical manipulation. Nowadays, I briefly mix my dough, do some stretch & folds with time inbetween (e.g. 30 min apart) and some ling cold rise in the fridge. None of my initial kitchen machine doughs ever had the strenghs of the batches I produce now by hand ...

[Ann_T]

On 11/22/2019 at 10:33 PM, JoNorvelleWalker said:

P.S.

 

 

 

Beautiful crumb.   

[JoNorvelleWalker]

6 hours ago, Duvel said:

 

In my experience time beats mechanical manipulation. Nowadays, I briefly mix my dough, do some stretch & folds with time inbetween (e.g. 30 min apart) and some ling cold rise in the fridge. None of my initial kitchen machine doughs ever had the strenghs of the batches I produce now by hand ...

 

What types of bread are you making?  ...other than pizza.  According to Modernist Bread, Germany has more than 3,000 varieties.

 

[Duvel]

I have posted my „go to“ bread here several times (e.g. this one). It is usually a high hydration wheat base for structure with rye, spelt or whole wheat added for flavour. 

To be honest, I have never counted the bread varieties in Germany, though a regular bakery might carry around 10 plus the same amount of bread rolls ...

Edited November 25, 2019 by Duvel (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

 

 

If this looks a little different, it is my first attempt at 100% rye, 85% hydration.  Unfortunately the flour is not the finely milled European style rye that I would like.

 

 

 

 

 

From the picture the anticipation was not most promising.  However the flavor was excellent and the texture was not half bad.  I am very pleased.

 

[Ann_T]

On 11/25/2019 at 4:23 AM, Duvel said:

 

In my experience time beats mechanical manipulation. Nowadays, I briefly mix my dough, do some stretch & folds with time inbetween (e.g. 30 min apart) and some ling cold rise in the fridge. None of my initial kitchen machine doughs ever had the strenghs of the batches I produce now by hand ...

 

@Duvel, I have to disagree with you on this. Or at least tell you that my experience is different.    For years, (20) I used a Magic Mill (same as the Ankarsrum) do do all my mixing.  

I only started to use the stretch and fold method in 2014.  I went back and looked at the albums  of the breads I made over the years from when I first started to take photos,  2004 to 2013 and I don't see much difference

in them.

The crumb and the shine are pretty much the same.

 

Some examples.

August 2013

 

2007

My first sourdough August 2007

2010

 

 

I actually enjoy the process of making the dough by hand.  BUT, I already

know that there will come a point when my hands aren't going to like this method and when that happens

I'm happy to know that I can go back to using the Magic Mill and still be happy with my breads. 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Ann_T (log)

[Ann_T]

I hadn't baked bread in two weeks so we were out.

Mixed up a biga Sunday night just before going to bed. It had more than doubled in 6 hours. Added it to a batch of dough in the morning.

 

Same day bake. 70% hydration.

Sliced this morning.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Ann_T (log)

[Duvel]

2 hours ago, Ann_T said:

 

@Duvel, I have to disagree with you on this. Or at least tell you that my experience is different.    For years, (20) I used a Magic Mill (same as the Ankarsrum) do do all my mixing.  

I only started to use the stretch and fold method in 2014.  I went back and looked at the albums  of the breads I made over the years from when I first started to take photos,  2004 to 2013 and I don't see much difference

in them.

The crumb and the shine are pretty much the same.

 

Some examples.

August 2013

 

2007

My first sourdough August 2007

2010

 

 

I actually enjoy the process of making the dough by hand.  BUT, I already

know that there will come a point when my hands aren't going to like this method and when that happens

I'm happy to know that I can go back to using the Magic Mill and still be happy with my breads. 

 

 

 

No really a disagreement, just a better kitchen machine on your side 😉