Home Made Ice Cream (2015– )

[weinoo]

1 hour ago, Shelby said:

😳

You threw away homemade ice cream.

I'm going to have to take a valium.

 

Indeed - there will be more!

You have valiums? Hmmm...

[weinoo]

We're having a heat wave, a tropical heat wave...

 

 

Philadelphia style vanilla ice cream.  Strawberry sherbet with a little of the extra strawberry purée for good measure. Both are an approximation of Dana Cree's "blank slates," with slightly reduced sweetness. This sherbet is so close to ice cream, it's hard to tell, but the strawberry bangs through.

 

Don't worry...

 

 

Significant Eater got her share.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I want that ice cream!  (And I want a couple of those ice cream scooping containers...but i'm too cheap.)

 

Last week in the country I made nectarine ice cream for the grand-kids.   Very simple mix of nectarines, sugar, heavy cream.   it was absolutely divine immediately after a stiff churn, but I imagine the remainder, which they took home, was hard as a rock after time in the freezer.

 

[weinoo]

Go on, spring for them...

 

LOCK & LOCK Small rectangular storage container (eG-friendly Amazon.com link)

 

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Gee, thanks!   The ones I found (Sur la Table) are $14.95!     Yours I can handle.  

[ccp900]

hi. can i ask for some help in verifying an experiment. i made multiple batches of chocolate ice cream with varying amounts and types of sugar. 

 

what i found out is that the type of sugar had a substantial impact on the chocolate taste such that some batches tasted more chocolatey even if they had the exact same chocolate level.

 

ill give you an example. i made a batch that had 10.2 percent butterfat and about 44-45 percent totsl solids. i used 30g of cocoa powder that had 10 percent fat as well as 50g of chocolate couverture that was 85percent graded so 85 percent cocoa solids.

 

now 1 batch i used 180g of sucrose or 18 percent. in another batch i changed that 180g sucrose into 40g sucrose and 140g dextrose.

 

the sucrose version because of the sweet taste seemed to hide the initial taste of chocolate but after a few seconds the chocolate taste seemed bolder and it lasted longer in the mouth. the dextrose version seemed a bit flatter tasting even if they had the same chocolate amount.

 

can i ask if someone has the time to cross verify this? or at least explain why?

 

i know for a fact that dextrose has a more upfront sweetness that lasts a short time versus sucrose that has a longer lasting sweet taste. i am thinking this might be the reason why the chocolate taste seemed to last longer.

 

i am confused though why the sugar version seemed to have a bolder chocolate flavor. i half expected the dextrose to be stronger because of the smaller molecules getting to the taste receptors easier. at the least i expected the taste to be very comparable with just the sweetness level changing but this is not what i experienced from my tasting the dextrose version seemed dull.  to add some complication, yes more confusion, i actually made a batch that only had 6.5 percent milkfat. this batch still had 40g of sucrose and 100g dextrose.  this batch again still has 50g of couverturr 85 percent and 30g cocoa powder.  i expected this to have a stronger flavor given the very low butterfat and lower sugar. guess what. it tasted the least chocolate of the batches! so im stumped why this is.....i was expecting the flavor to come through more given the lower fat and lower sweetness.....

am i going crazy??

 

calling Paul!!!! pls tell me im not going loco 😜😜

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by ccp900 (log)

[David Ross]

A bit of a melted mess since I didn't properly scoop the ice cream, but delicious nonetheless.  Chocolate Malt Ice Cream Sundae.   With Pineapple Caramel, Spiced Pineapple and Macadamia Nut Tuiles. Makes a great shake too.

[David Ross]

1 hour ago, David Ross said:

A bit of a melted mess since I didn't properly scoop the ice cream, but delicious nonetheless.  Chocolate Malt Ice Cream Sundae.   With Pineapple Caramel, Spiced Pineapple and Macadamia Nut Tuiles. Makes a great shake too.

What is the best technique for getting that perfect scoop shape?  So it doesn't have the divots like mine?  Is there such a thing as a non-stick scoop you use?  After forming the scoop do you freeze it to hold the shape?  I need some help with mine.

 

[weinoo]

I think it really helps for the ice cream to be at the proper scooping temperature, if there is such a thing.

 

 

I have so freakin' many scoops, but the Zyliss at 1 o'clock, and the one filled with antifreeze at like 5 o'clock probably do the best job. It helps for the container to be rectangular, in my opinion.

 

And it also helps to not use a finger to get the ice cream out of the scoop...

 

 

I would never refreeze - that's just going to lead to ice crystals.

 

 

 

[Synerge]

Hello everyone. I'm Demian and I would like to participate in this discussion from now on

I'm from Argentina and I love ice cream. Well, here we actually have gelato, not ice cream, but its basically the same, just different fat and air content

I started making ice creams like 4 years ago when I bought the Cuisinart Ice-30, and just a few months ago I replaced it with a Whynter ICM15. Huge improvement, and its a lot easier to do. Anyway I didnt have enough space in the freezer anymore, so I actually needed a compressor machine

I started "studying" all this ice cream science when I got the whynter and by now I pretty much read all the books, surfed all the webs, and watched all the videos and articles

 

I read this thread discussion completely and I loved what you all did here. I like the progress and changes as the years go by aswell

 

Now starting to participate, I believe that in order to scoop properly you need to get your scoop wet before that, maybe even with warm water so the ice cream doesn't really stick to the metal.

The ice cream should also be in the right temperature that you formulated in the PAC before, so the serving temperature is the same as your freezer temperature

There is also the fact, that scoopability depends a lot in how good your ice cream actually is, say the formula and also the procedure you used to make it

[Synerge]

On 11/26/2020 at 5:47 PM, Patrik Svensson said:

This is a great thread!

 

I've made an ice cream calculator software that might be interesting to checkout.

It's totally free and runs on Windows. I use it all the time when making my own ice cream.

I'd love some feedback and a check of how accurate you all think it is.

https://www.icecreamcalc.com

 

/Regards

 

 

This is also the formulating app that I have been using for some months already

Its probably the best app out there, and its free. Yes, better than all the paid ones

So I would recommend it to everyone, specially if you still do everything manually or with some excel table

 

By the way, I'm obsessed with the texture that professional machines accomplish. Its just insane the difference on what I get with my home machine

I've been trying to improve both the flavor and the texture a lot, trying all kind of methods, from the mixing of ingredients, to pasteurization, to the cooldown, aging, homogenization, churning and freezing.

With professional machines its kinda irrelevant how you do those steps, the important thing is to do them, and the result is amazing

But with home made machines, every single adjustment you make, changes a lot in the result, specially because machines are really underpowered, both in churning speed and strength, and in freezing power

 

You can check a really good video of amazing gelato texture here: Gelato slow motion

[Synerge]

On 6/29/2021 at 3:02 PM, ccp900 said:

hi. can i ask for some help in verifying an experiment. i made multiple batches of chocolate ice cream with varying amounts and types of sugar. 

 

what i found out is that the type of sugar had a substantial impact on the chocolate taste such that some batches tasted more chocolatey even if they had the exact same chocolate level.

 

ill give you an example. i made a batch that had 10.2 percent butterfat and about 44-45 percent totsl solids. i used 30g of cocoa powder that had 10 percent fat as well as 50g of chocolate couverture that was 85percent graded so 85 percent cocoa solids.

 

now 1 batch i used 180g of sucrose or 18 percent. in another batch i changed that 180g sucrose into 40g sucrose and 140g dextrose.

 

the sucrose version because of the sweet taste seemed to hide the initial taste of chocolate but after a few seconds the chocolate taste seemed bolder and it lasted longer in the mouth. the dextrose version seemed a bit flatter tasting even if they had the same chocolate amount.

 

can i ask if someone has the time to cross verify this? or at least explain why?

 

i know for a fact that dextrose has a more upfront sweetness that lasts a short time versus sucrose that has a longer lasting sweet taste. i am thinking this might be the reason why the chocolate taste seemed to last longer.

 

i am confused though why the sugar version seemed to have a bolder chocolate flavor. i half expected the dextrose to be stronger because of the smaller molecules getting to the taste receptors easier. at the least i expected the taste to be very comparable with just the sweetness level changing but this is not what i experienced from my tasting the dextrose version seemed dull.  to add some complication, yes more confusion, i actually made a batch that only had 6.5 percent milkfat. this batch still had 40g of sucrose and 100g dextrose.  this batch again still has 50g of couverturr 85 percent and 30g cocoa powder.  i expected this to have a stronger flavor given the very low butterfat and lower sugar. guess what. it tasted the least chocolate of the batches! so im stumped why this is.....i was expecting the flavor to come through more given the lower fat and lower sweetness.....

am i going crazy??

 

calling Paul!!!! pls tell me im not going loco 😜😜

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm asumming that you actually know the POD and PAC differences on all the sugars, because sucrose and dextrose are sugars and have completely different values

Dextrose has more antifreezing properties, but less sweetness. Thats why replacing a part of the sucrose makes it less sweet

About the chocolate, to be honest I dont like it, so I can't really help you with that, as I don't know how it functions with other ingredients and which makes it stand out more than others. There are tons of information in many books and articles, but I avoided them on purpose, as I will never make chocolate gelato :P. But its probably that if the chocolate stands out more with sucrose than with dextrose, that means that its beneficial for it to be sweeter, or maybe thats just your perception

 

There is also the fact that the texture and properties improve a lot when using at least 2 different sugars, or I would say sucrose + a different sugar, be it inverted sugar, glucose, dextrose. There is a synergy between different sugars that was discovered not long ago, thats why all gelatos and ice creams now use dextrose or glucose, when before sucrose was only used. That also makes people say that ice creams are now artificial, because they read dextrose and associate with some chemical additive of some sort and they have no idea that its just a normal sugar. Its not an edulcorant

 

Anyway, thats it. Formulas have changed, if you want better ice creams and gelatos you will need to use at least 2 sugars. With dextrose you will be fine for most ice creams, as glucose DE is a little more difficult to get, well, at least here. By the way, if you get glucose, it should be atomized, meaning powder glucose, and with dextrose equivalent DE of 38 40, for better serving purposes. Glucose 100DE = Dextrose, so be careful with that

[David Ross]

3 hours ago, weinoo said:

I think it really helps for the ice cream to be at the proper scooping temperature, if there is such a thing.

 

 

I have so freakin' many scoops, but the Zyliss at 1 o'clock, and the one filled with antifreeze at like 5 o'clock probably do the best job. It helps for the container to be rectangular, in my opinion.

 

And it also helps to not use a finger to get the ice cream out of the scoop...

 

 

I would never refreeze - that's just going to lead to ice crystals.

 

 

 

Thanks I actually have a Zyliss so will bring that out, and yes, the tell tale finger imprint.

[weinoo]

2 hours ago, David Ross said:

Thanks I actually have a Zyliss so will bring that out, and yes, the tell tale finger imprint.

 

So basically the most important step before scooping:

 

wash your hands.

[weinoo]

You know, @David Ross, many of the places we go to which are more informal...often, they'll scoop ice cream using a spoon (or 2) (like for us, soup spoons) and make a quenelle:

 

 

[Margaret Pilgrim]

24 minutes ago, weinoo said:

You know, @David Ross, many of the places we go to which are more informal...often, they'll scoop ice cream using a spoon (or 2) (like for us, soup spoons) and make a quenelle:

 

 

Was actually thinking about how I kind of use a scoop in the way you make a quenelle, i.e. a toward you, then away from you, then back toward you movement.    Like that makes sense...

[ccp900]

6 hours ago, Synerge said:

 

I'm asumming that you actually know the POD and PAC differences on all the sugars, because sucrose and dextrose are sugars and have completely different values

Dextrose has more antifreezing properties, but less sweetness. Thats why replacing a part of the sucrose makes it less sweet

About the chocolate, to be honest I dont like it, so I can't really help you with that, as I don't know how it functions with other ingredients and which makes it stand out more than others. There are tons of information in many books and articles, but I avoided them on purpose, as I will never make chocolate gelato :P. But its probably that if the chocolate stands out more with sucrose than with dextrose, that means that its beneficial for it to be sweeter, or maybe thats just your perception

 

There is also the fact that the texture and properties improve a lot when using at least 2 different sugars, or I would say sucrose + a different sugar, be it inverted sugar, glucose, dextrose. There is a synergy between different sugars that was discovered not long ago, thats why all gelatos and ice creams now use dextrose or glucose, when before sucrose was only used. That also makes people say that ice creams are now artificial, because they read dextrose and associate with some chemical additive of some sort and they have no idea that its just a normal sugar. Its not an edulcorant

 

Anyway, thats it. Formulas have changed, if you want better ice creams and gelatos you will need to use at least 2 sugars. With dextrose you will be fine for most ice creams, as glucose DE is a little more difficult to get, well, at least here. By the way, if you get glucose, it should be atomized, meaning powder glucose, and with dextrose equivalent DE of 38 40, for better serving purposes. Glucose 100DE = Dextrose, so be careful with that

hi there. yep im aware of pod and pac and this is why i adjusted the formula to be 18 percent sugar as that is way higher than my usual formulations. the experiment was focused on the effects of varying sugars and sugar level on the flavor perception of chocolate and i came out with insights that were contraryto what i expected. for example the formulation with oy 6 percent fat actually had duller chocolate flavor i assumed the flavor would be more pronounced given all the documents supporting that lower butterfat led to a more chocolate taste because you have less fat coating your tongue. 

 

i was also surprised how the change in the sugar type led to a dulling of the chocolate taste. i wasnt expecting that as i thought the change of sugars would simply mean lower fpd and od course sweetness.  i am thinking that chocolate is really carried by sweetness more than anything else. the longer the sweetness lasts in your mouth the longer the chocolate flavor stays. this means using a higher proportion of sucrose would benefit it.

 

now im thinking how do i make an upfront chocolate taste, i was hoping the lower fat is the answer but i havent done a low fat but high sucrose version yet. this is because i dont like super sweet ice cream

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Synerge]

14 minutes ago, ccp900 said:

hi there. yep im aware of pod and pac and this is why i adjusted the formula to be 18 percent sugar as that is way higher than my usual formulations. the experiment was focused on the effects of varying sugars and sugar level on the flavor perception of chocolate and i came out with insights that were contraryto what i expected. for example the formulation with oy 6 percent fat actually had duller chocolate flavor i assumed the flavor would be more pronounced given all the documents supporting that lower butterfat led to a more chocolate taste because you have less fat coating your tongue. 

 

i was also surprised how the change in the sugar type led to a dulling of the chocolate taste. i wasnt expecting that as i thought the change of sugars would simply mean lower fpd and od course sweetness.  i am thinking that chocolate is really carried by sweetness more than anything else. the longer the sweetness lasts in your mouth the longer the chocolate flavor stays. this means using a higher proportion of sucrose would benefit it.

 

now im thinking how do i make an upfront chocolate taste, i was hoping the lower fat is the answer but i havent done a low fat but high sucrose version yet. this is because i dont like super sweet ice cream

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, I think that the fat relation with taste goes the other way around. For example in USA they increased a lot fat content as it gave the ice cream a different texture and flavour

One thing is certain, while more fat you have, more creamy is the ice cream. Because fat does not freeze, so you have less water, so less ice problems

Obviously, on the other side, fat is extremely unhealthy, specially if you are planning to eat ice cream on a regular basis. A 10% fat content is a lot more balanced, and it comes out great. You can also go for italy's gelatos that go from 4% to 8% top. In argentina, the gelatos usually go from 7% to 10%. For me, 6% is a little to low, 8% sounds better in all the cases. I try to get values between 8 and 10

 

Chocolate is probably the most difficult ice cream to do, because the main compontent, that is chocolate, is quite complex, and changes everything in the formula. It has fats, sugars, solids. Everything. Also, the quality and type of chocolate change everything aswell

Your finding is interesting, you say that with a smaller POD, the chocolate taste doesn't stand out too much. In the contrary, if you increase sweetness, the flavour is better. That maybe depends on the chocolate you are using. Also have in mind that chocolate itself is really high on fat.

Post your recipe so we can check what is going on. Although I have no experiene in this, maybe others that do like chocolate can say something about it. I can only say that chocolate is really bitter, specially if you go more to pure chocolate. Milk chocolate on the other half, or maybe even white chocolate, completely different taste

[JoNorvelleWalker]

The best chocolate ice cream I've made is Rose levy Beranbaum's.

 

[Synerge]

1 hour ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

The best chocolate ice cream I've made is Rose levy Beranbaum's.

 

I watched the video link you put before, and it does look good. Although it seems a quite low overrun ice cream

[JoNorvelleWalker]

37 minutes ago, Synerge said:

I watched the video link you put before, and it does look good. Although it seems a quite low overrun ice cream

 

Overrun depends on how ice cream is churned.  I prefer low overrun.

 

[Synerge]

1 minute ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Overrun depends on how ice cream is churned.  I prefer low overrun.

 

 

USA ice creams have really high overrun, maybe 60 70%. We have gelato here in my country, so we have 30 35% overrun

Anyway, we cannot control overrun with our home machines.

Even for gelato, that ice cream seems low overrun, like 15%, its probably the recipe, but well, if it tastes fine

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 minute ago, Synerge said:

 

USA ice creams have really high overrun, maybe 60 70%. We have gelato here in my country, so we have 30 35% overrun

Anyway, we cannot control overrun with our home machines.

Even for gelato, that ice cream seems low overrun, like 15%, its probably the recipe, but well, if it tastes fine

 

My Cuisinart ICE-100 has two dashers.  One for lower overrun and one for higher overrun.  I typically use the dasher for higher overrun but it still gives me the lower overrun I like.  For my ice cream I churn very briefly, about 15 minutes.  Longer than this I find the ice cream texture suffers.

 

[Synerge]

1 minute ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

My Cuisinart ICE-100 has two dashers.  One for lower overrun and one for higher overrun.  I typically use the dasher for higher overrun but it still gives me the lower overrun I like.  For my ice cream I churn very briefly, about 15 minutes.  Longer than this I find the ice cream texture suffers.

 

 

Yeah, I heard about the 2 dashers. Although they seem to pretty much give the same result, as usually the overrun is giving by speed and not so much by the dasher itself. And our machines cannot change speed. Unlucky

If we could increase the speed, to 100 rpm at least, that is the gelato speed, we could finish the ice cream faster. And that means better texture, smaller ice crystals. Although we should also need more freezing power, but our machines are not that bad either, they may be able to handle some of increased speed

 

You are doing the right thing actually at removing it earlier, as while more you leave the ice cream in the machine, less effective is the freezing due to lack of power. Usually you should not remove it by time, but with a digital thermometer check the temperatura, should be about -7 to -10º C when its ready to be taken out, although it depends on the machine itself. Some only reach -7 before starting to go slower

I'm currently leaving the whole process until the machine cannot longer churn, and thats it usually 30 minutes, with good results. I haven't tasted ice crystals for long time, but I will be testing new methods, like putting less mix in the machine, removing it early, leaving it in the machine to try to blast freeze it without churning, etc. There must be a way to somehow simulate the texture that proffesional machines give. If there is one, I will find it. One great thing that would be amazing, is to make a custom blade, to actually scrap the bowl sides instead of getting close, so every single ice cream in the sides is removed, just like pro machines. Metal blades would also be something great

[JoNorvelleWalker]

4 minutes ago, Synerge said:

 

Yeah, I heard about the 2 dashers. Although they seem to pretty much give the same result, as usually the overrun is giving by speed and not so much by the dasher itself. And our machines cannot change speed. Unlucky

If we could increase the speed, to 100 rpm at least, that is the gelato speed, we could finish the ice cream faster. And that means better texture, smaller ice crystals. Although we should also need more freezing power, but our machines are not that bad either, they may be able to handle some of increased speed

 

You are doing the right thing actually at removing it earlier, as while more you leave the ice cream in the machine, less effective is the freezing due to lack of power. Usually you should not remove it by time, but with a digital thermometer check the temperatura, should be about -7 to -10º C when its ready to be taken out, although it depends on the machine itself. Some only reach -7 before starting to go slower

I'm currently leaving the whole process until the machine cannot longer churn, and thats it usually 30 minutes, with good results. I haven't tasted ice crystals for long time, but I will be testing new methods, like putting less mix in the machine, removing it early, leaving it in the machine to try to blast freeze it without churning, etc. There must be a way to somehow simulate the texture that proffesional machines give. If there is one, I will find it. One great thing that would be amazing, is to make a custom blade, to actually scrap the bowl sides instead of getting close, so every single ice cream in the sides is removed, just like pro machines. Metal blades would also be something great

 

I would say slower rotation speed is better for ice cream texture.  But if I were looking for even better texture I'd go out and buy a Pacojet.  Unfortunately I can't afford one.