Competition BBQ

[brucesw]

I know nothing of competition bbq so I have stayed out of this discussion.  However, on the subject of woods, at least in the realm of bbq joints, both mesquite and hickory are widely used in Texas but seldom if ever by critically acclaimed places.  There are lots of ‘hickory pit bbq’ places scattered around Houston.  

There was one short-lived place here (Pierson’s) that used mesquite exclusively and caused raised eyebrows because of it until you tasted their product.  He handled it very well.  I have never used it but I know it can produce a very bitter or acrid taste.  I’ve read that the problem is that mesquite burns very hot and is hard to control but I couldn’t explain what that means.

Pollo asado places around here sometimes use mesquite or mesquite charcoal.  I think mesquite goes well with chicken.

The old line places in Central Texas - Luling, Lockhart, Taylor - all use post oak from what I understand.  I really know nothing of all the newer places in Austin and what they use.  Maybe it’s just ‘something in the water’ up there but I think post oak is the best wood for smoking.

Around Houston and SE Texas you encounter the inclusion of pecan, usually with live oak, the variety of oak that grows here and is probably the variety that is most prolific here.  Some places use pecan exclusively but it has problems similar to mesquite.  It does tend to produce a very thick, beautiful ruby-colored smoke ring.

There is one critically acclaimed place here, Corkscrew in The Woodlands, that uses red oak.  I’ve only had it once.  I didn’t dislike it but wasn’t sure I liked it either.  It was a little reminiscent of mesquite to me and I have had some awful mesquite smoked bbq in the past.

I think some places in Dallas use red oak, too, but I don't think it grows commonly around here.

[rotuts]

thank you for correcting me :  " post oak "

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_stellata

[Jaymes]

I was wondering about the effect of "certified" judges on the shaping taste of BBQ. And you've sort of confirmed it.

 

Knowing well the corrupting influence of grants/funding I have to wonder of the commercial sponsors of KCBS, whoever they might be, influence the  official taste of "good" BBQ by in some way supporting the judges/organization and swaying their taste buds.  Pure speculation of course.

 

I keep thinking about this and the implication that somehow corporate special interests influence the judging.  This is completely nonsensical (in addition to being insulting).  I can't imagine to what end this "influence" might be intended, and I sure can't imagine how it would be implemented.  It convinces me that you don't know much about the process.

 

The first thing of which I suspect you are unaware is that the CBJs at the KCBS cooking competitions receive no compensation.  They do it as a hobby, and for the enjoyment of the camaraderie, and for the barbecue of course.  They are not paid.  Anything.  In fact, it costs them money to judge.  They must pay their own travel expenses, which can be considerable.  So how on earth these "commercial sponsors" might influence the outcome is beyond me.

 

Not to mention that the majority of the cookers are folks with day jobs that just come to these cook-offs to have a good time.  So I don't see how Dr. Johnson, a dentist from Dallas (for example), who loads up his rig and travels to a barbecue competition in, say, Springfield MO, might benefit from his brisket being judged in the top three at the Rock n' Ribs Festival.

 

Nothing in your "pure speculation" makes any sense to me.

 

Whatsoever.

[scubadoo97]

I can attest to the fact that judges are not compensated in any way and pay for their travel and accommodations. They are people that love to eat BBQ and do it as a hobby and for the camaraderie

[dcarch]

What are the rules regarding the use of MSG?

 

dcarch

[joiei]

Certified BBQ judge checking in here. I have been judging bbq for 10 years and getting ready to start my eleventh year. I have judged over 120 events ranging from Florida to Colorado, Missouri to Texas.

Competition bbq is not the stuff you make in your backyard. KCBS has guidelines that cooks and judges follow. It does not effect regional differences. I have tasted really good mustard sauce twice and gave the entry's all 9s. They deserved it. Here In Oklahoma we don't get a lot of eastern style bbq but if a team does it well I celebrate it.

If your interested the rules for judges is posted online at KCBS.US.

Competition bbq is also not restaurant bbq. Here in Oklahoma where I live I have tasted some incredibly good bbq and and some really awful stuff. Most often the stuff falling off the bone or you need no teefe to eat our meat is so overcooked as to be total mush. There a couple of places that have lines out the door and often they sell out. I have no problem with that. There are people here who complain and say they don't like those places. If their bbq is so bad why is there a line every day? My newest favorite is in Springfield, MO. It's called City Butcher and they make their own sausages. They also do fatty brisket with just a salt and pepper rub and a darn good pork belly. The day I was there they didn't have any Oklahoma tenderloin (bologna).

As for judging, I have tasted some bbq I would eat every day if I could. I have had to spit stuff out more often than I wanted to. There is one event here where I live that I do not judge because a lot of the teams compete once a year and their stuff could possibly poison someone. It is not worth it to me to have to judge through all the crap to get one decent entry. That is an event for the once a year judges.

I'm rambling so I will stop. To answer the question do teams cook to the judges yes they do. The ones who win all the time do. Because we are looking for certain things directed by our judging guidelines. Do judges prefer sweet bbq, no we don't. I can't wait for Blues Hog to go away. My personal preference is for something that has a nice balance with a little more spice. Oh btw I have encountered vinegary sauces in Texas. Some of the best stuff I have judged had no sauce, just rub. One thing I don't like is when a team drowns their entry in sauce. It is not about the sauce it is about the meat.

[joiei]

To the msg question I know a lot of teams and none of them use the stuff.

[Norm Matthews]

KCBS has members in every state and several in Europe. There were some in Japan last i heard. They train judges for the purpose of giving boundaries and uniformity to a contest.  I don't think the rules are intended to influence one style over another, just to make sure the playing field is somewhat level. They specify what cuts and types meat are acceptable and what isn't but also leave room for the individual sponsor to include other categories.  About sauces, the rule is you can serve it sauced or without but not on the side.

 

Experienced participants tell me that they cook for contests differently than they would cook at home because the BBQ in a contest the meat has to leave a lasting impression on a judge after only one bite.  I have eaten in several restaurants who are top prize winners at the American Royal and in my heart believe that what they serve the public isn't what won them their awards. 

 

EDIT: Posted before I realized that Joiei had posted on this second page.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Norm Matthews (log)

[Jaymes]

Certified BBQ judge checking in here. I have been judging bbq for 10 years and getting ready to start my eleventh year. I have judged over 120 events ranging from Florida to Colorado, Missouri to Texas.

[dcarch]

To the msg question I know a lot of teams and none of them use the stuff.

[Dave W]

Joiei, thanks for the informative post. Are the KCBS judging guidelines the same as the ones that are read to the teams at the cooks' meeting before each competition?

[chileheadmike]

You could be right. But there is really no way to tell. Those who use MSG, (the secrete ingredient), will they admit it?

 

dcarch

 

Some do use msg, there's no rule against it.  I use this rub for my ribs and pork. This was posted mid-1990's so it's dated.  The rub contains a good amount of sugar but they don't really come out sweet. He uses KC Masterpiece plus honey which is way too sweet for me. If I use a sauce at all it's Arthur Bryant's which is definitely not sweet. 

 

1 Cup Sugar

1 Cup Non-Iodized Table Salt

1/2 Cup Brown Sugar (Dried out lightly by exposing on cookie sheet room temp. several hours, or slightly warmed

5 Tablespoons + 1 Teaspoons Chili Powder

2 Tablespoons + 2 Teaspoons Ground Cumin

4 Teaspoons MSG (Accent)

4 Teaspoons Cayenne Pepper

4 Teaspoons Black Pepper freshly ground (important)

4 Teaspoons Garlic Powder

4 Teaspoons Onion Powder

 

http://www.bbqsearch.com/search/26655.shtm

[kayb]

I've lived most of my adult life around Memphis, and I firmly adhere to the "Memphis is the center of the barbecue universe" school. KC barbecue, that I've tried at least, is generally sweeter, and has a "heavier" taste. I like it, but not as well as Memphis. Texas barbecue is, of course, beef and thus Does Not Count .

 

Memphis 'cue counts strongly on the dry rub (assorted peppers, salt, garlic, allspice, oregano, and so on) and is usually basted during cooking with a vinegar-based sauce, with a different, tomato-based sauce used for serving, if desired.

 

The Memphis in May International Barbecue Cooking Championship is one of the two major barbecue competition sanctioning organizations. You either cook on the "Memphis Circuit" or the "Kansas City Circuit."

[joiei]

Dave, yes the guidelines are the same as the cd. In fact the person who speaks on the cd is a bbq judge and a nice guy.

As for the msg question I have never seen it on the spice racks of my cook team friends. Some of them possibly do use it. There was a rub recipe in the KCBS cookbook calling for it. I don't use it in my rubs.

As for either Memphis in May (they call it something else now) or KCBS I know of a few teams who cook both and I know some judges who judge both. I hear that judging for some Texas organizations is very loose and not very organized. They do not train their judges. I have judged KCBS in Memphis. And it was a bit different and very tasty. Children's Variety the first weekend in June totally rocks. Btw kayb have you ever eaten at Dell Valls Falls? The pie shop across the street is a definite do not miss. And the coconut pie at Germantown Commisary is worth the trip. Great ribs too. Oh and y'all don't have brisket in Memphis. Lol. Just yanking your chain a bit. I have had some excellent restaurant bbq in your neck of the woods.

[kayb]

As for either Memphis in May (they call it something else now) or KCBS I know of a few teams who cook both and I know some judges who judge both. I hear that judging for some Texas organizations is very loose and not very organized. They do not train their judges. I have judged KCBS in Memphis. And it was a bit different and very tasty. Children's Variety the first weekend in June totally rocks. Btw kayb have you ever eaten at Dell Valls Falls? The pie shop across the street is a definite do not miss. And the coconut pie at Germantown Commisary is worth the trip. Great ribs too. Oh and y'all don't have brisket in Memphis. Lol. Just yanking your chain a bit. I have had some excellent restaurant bbq in your neck of the woods.

joiei, I think you're speaking of DeValls Bluff, between Memphis and Little Rock off I-40, and yes, I'm a fan of both Craig's BBQ and the Pie Shop. Craig's is good, but far from the best in a 100-mile radius. You MUST try Jones BBQ in Marianna, if you can find it, and if you can get there before 11 a.m., because he'll sell out shortly after that, and when he does, he's done for the day. They're the recipient of a James Beard American Classic award, and the barbecue is FINE. Would also recommend you go to Blytheville, on I-55 just south of the MO line, where there are several excellent barbecue places; it's about an hour from Memphis.

 

In Memphis, my favorites, in no particular order, are Central, Interstate, Cozy Corner (hopefully they'll soon reopen from the fire!), Payne's and Bar-B-Q shop. Commissary would make my second five. Love their deviled eggs, too. Bar-B-Q shop is the only one of those where I've had decent brisket.

[scubadoo97]

I've lived most of my adult life around Memphis, and I firmly adhere to the "Memphis is the center of the barbecue universe" school. KC barbecue, that I've tried at least, is generally sweeter, and has a "heavier" taste. I like it, but not as well as Memphis. Texas barbecue is, of course, beef and thus Does Not Count .

Memphis 'cue counts strongly on the dry rub (assorted peppers, salt, garlic, allspice, oregano, and so on) and is usually basted during cooking with a vinegar-based sauce, with a different, tomato-based sauce used for serving, if desired.

The Memphis in May International Barbecue Cooking Championship is one of the two major barbecue competition sanctioning organizations. You either cook on the "Memphis Circuit" or the "Kansas City Circuit."

I went to school in Memphis from '78 to '82. Me and a group of buds entered the pork shoulder comp. Surprisingly we placed in the top 10 (don't remember the placing but it was not near the top). There were like 50 teams back then. We were totally wasted and served on a wilted paper plates. Couldn't get in the door today. Boy has it changed. I still have the team tee shirt

[dcarch]

I seem to think that people who has Harley Davidsons are not actually interested in transportation to get from one place to another.

 

Likewise people who are into BBQ competitions are not really into food. It is a life style (obsession?). They spend many thousands of $, thousands of hours for those huge trailer smokers --------------, which takes up 1/2 of their properties, 

 

dcarch

[Dave W]

Dcarch that's part of the crowd but definitely not everyone.

[chileheadmike]

I seem to think that people who has Harley Davidsons are not actually interested in transportation to get from one place to another.

 

Likewise people who are into BBQ competitions are not really into food. It is a life style (obsession?). They spend many thousands of $, thousands of hours for those huge trailer smokers --------------, which takes up 1/2 of their properties, 

 

dcarch

I did a couple of competitions a year for about 10 years.  No trailer, definitely did not spend thousands of dollars.  We were pretty bare bones. It was a lot of fun. We would have friends and family out the night before and have a big party with lots of barbecue and sides and drinks. Lots and lots of drinks. I generally slept in a small tent or in the back of my truck for a couple of hours. 

[Norm Matthews]

Darch, there is an interesting diversity in just about any hobby or avocation.  Some competition BBQers have successful restaurants and/or commercial lines of food and BBQ products. Some are caterers. I am sure some watch collectors are less interested in telling time than they are about trying to impress people. There are fountain pen collectors who have a difficult time constructing a lucid paragraph. 

[dcarch]

It is interesting also that in those big major competition events, creativity is very much discouraged by all kinds of "rules".

 

Same ribs every year, everywhere, by everyone.

 

dcarch

[Dave W]

How do you know that?

[Norm Matthews]

Rules are made to set boundaries, to keep some kind of focus, otherwise someone might think it is OK to submit smoked pies.  If there is a smoked pie contest, then OK but a smoked meat contest needs to define what is going to be judged. One cannot function as a competitor or especially as a judge if there are no definitions of what is within the purview of the situation at hand. 

 

There are rules in chili contests so the subject will stay on chili and not on spaghetti.  There are rules of the road: everyone drive on the same side, yield to kids in a school crosswalk.  Artists have natural boundaries within whatever media they choose, in all cases, creativity still has room to exhibit itself.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Norm Matthews (log)

[dcarch]

"---------Rules are made to set boundaries, to keep some kind of focus, otherwise someone might think it is OK to submit smoked pies.----------"

 

I understand you need some boundaries, but why you must use Styrofoam boxes? only 4 kinds of garnishes and only six sticks of ribs cut in stipulated ways?

 

Why, the judges can't tell true tastes if someone uses a different garnish to look pretty?

 

I much prefer seeing some freedom, like the Masterchef, Ironchef kind of competitions.

 

dcarch

Edited January 29, 2015 by dcarch (log)

[Jaymes]

And, exactly like I said several posts back, the conformity regarding the "presentation box" is, in very large part, to keep the cookers from adding this or that garnish to make their entry easy to identify.

Besides, the uniformity of the presentation helps keep the focus on the meat, as it should be.

Regarding restaurant owners, caterers, etc., it's been my experience that there's usually a separate category for commercial cookers.