Methode Rotuts

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I felt there should be a proper home for methode rotuts sparkling wine, perhaps sparkling cider.  (Maybe not sparkling gin just yet, though that is a thought.)

 

Which wines work best?  Which mixtures of gasses?  Has anyone tried nitrogen?

 

How about red wine or rose?  So far all my experiments have been with soave though I have some chardonnay to try.

 

One advantage of methode rotuts is that stainless steel pressure vessels are much less likely to break falling out of the refrigerator than typical glass bottles.  They may, of course, explode.  This is yet to be tested.

[chefmd]

Can we start with the basics please?  Are we talking about SodaStream or Isi siphon?  How many chargers if Isi?  I see Methode Rotuts mentioned in several threads, such as Falling Back on Island Times.  Can't wait to try it!

[Smithy]

On 10/26/2014 at 1:26 PM, chefmd said:

Can we start with the basics please?  Are we talking about SodaStream or Isi siphon?  How many chargers if Isi?  I see Methode Rotuts mentioned in several threads, such as Falling Back on Island Times.  Can't wait to try it!

I'm pretty sure Methode Rotuts uses a PureFizz. This post seems to be where it all starts, in the PureFizz vs SodaStream: your take? topic. 🙂

Edited May 13, 2021 by Smithy
Fixed broken link (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Can we start with the basics please?  Are we talking about SodaStream or Isi siphon?  How many chargers if Isi?  I see Methode Rotuts mentioned in several threads, such as Falling Back on Island Times.  Can't wait to try it!

 

I am using iSi Gourmet Plus (which is not a siphon).  I believe Kerry and our eponymous rotuts are using Purefizz.  I've had best results with three CO2 chargers in the one liter iSi.  One charger applied with the iSi valve open to flush the headspace (as suggested in Modernist Cuisine).  Then two more chargers applied normally.

 

Note the wine and the pressure vessels must be very cold.

[lesliec]

 (Maybe not sparkling gin just yet, though that is a thought.)

 

 

Definitely possible.  I've carbonated a Negroni before today.  Not bad as an experiment, but not really necessary either - it's kinda hard to improve on a proper Negroni.  As the Death & Co book (p41) rightly says, 'without Negronis the world is a far less beautiful place'.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I don't know what has come over me.  For the second time in the past few days I forwent my mai tai in favor of methode rotuts.  Yes, I know, one can have both.  But only so much of both.

 

I began with a tad of leftover zinfandel to which I added a spritz of methode rotuts.  I can't say it was one of my better experiments.  Maybe white zinfandel would do something?  Unfortunately I do not know of any still white pinot noir I could use for carbonation.

 

But soave, now that I have the method down, is so satisfying!  Happiness -- once a liter of methode rotuts runs dry -- is having another liter ready in the freezer.  And with stainless steel there is no remorse watching the level in the bottle going down.

[catdaddy]

I think still white pinot noir is called chardonay.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Chardonnay is a white grape.  Pinot noir is a red grape.

[nickrey]

And pinot noir is used in Champagne. The colour in red wine comes from leaving the clear juice on grape skins. If the juice is removed from the skins after pressing, it makes a white wine.

 

The other grape in champagne, apart from Pinot Noir and Chardonnay is Pinot Meunier, also a red grape. A Blanc de noir champagne is made from the red champagne grapes (Pinot Noir and Pinot Meaner). A Blanc de Blancs is a champagne made exclusively from Chardonnay.

 

White Zinfandel is actually a blush wine (rose) which is made by leaving the juice on the skins for sufficient time to get a bit of colour. I'm not sure of the winemaking technique beyond this but suspect that it is fermented at a lower temperature than red Zinfandel. White wines are often more acidic than reds and Champagne is very acidic so I'd be tempted to commence your experiments with white wines rather than reds and ones that are fruit dominant.

 

Cheap sparkling wines are often made by carbonation, always with carbon dioxide. It's nice to think that rotuts made it up but it's been around for a long while. Portuguese espumosos are always made in this manner.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

For whatever reason the last of my flask of methode rotuts went flat tonight.  Not totally flat but it lost much of it's fizz.  Fortunately the nice thing about methode rotuts is it's only a few CO2 cylinders away.

 

Yes, I know rotuts didn't entirely invent carbonated wine, but to my knowledge he was the first to popularize it on eGullet.  They say Dom Perignon did not invent champagne either.

 

I seem to have gone through about fifteen CO2 cylinders in the past week or so.

[rotuts]

I use white wine, from Tj's

 

the wine does not have to be expensive, but taste to suit you pre-MR.  I like dry, no oak.

 

i love the PureFizz as it seems to be well made and sturdy.   cold cold is key.  one charger / 750 cc works for me.

 

I hope to be a bit less cheeeeeeep and try a TJ's true Chablis from FR some time soon.

 

it used to be 9.99 / bot.  now its 13.99

 

 

I made up a MR from the Tj's chard I use from chile    and took it to Tj's for the wine staff to try.

 

they liked it more or less, but the key is it can be any wine you like 'still'

 

of note : the white wine used for champ. in FR is not a particularly 'good' still wine, hence the bubbles.

 

also of note :  the chargers are cheapest via amazon for 100 to 125 / shipment.

Edited November 1, 2014 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

Ill be trying that Chablis later this afternoon Early Evening  Soon 

 

 

the Markets are Up, its a drizzly day here, etc etc.  BTW its 12.99 not 13.99.

 

Ill be sending a Bill to 

 

 

JoNorvelleWalker

 

later today for starting this thread and driving me crazy :

 

( 12.99 ) - ( 4.49 )  = 8.50 USD, cash

 

its not so much one bottle   ( almost 3 x price !    )

 

its the 30 cases Ill have to order if I like it, as I know I will.

 

Edited November 1, 2014 by rotuts (log)

[catdaddy]

Chardonnay is a white grape.  Pinot noir is a red grape.

Sorry. My weak attempt at humor.

[rotuts]

What a Bummer.

 

can we still say that ?   the Chablis in the past from TJ,  this same producer at 9.99, pre-Epoch M.R. was a decent affordable

 

Chablis that had good Chablis 'palate.' They used to have a 9.99 and a 13.99,  the dif. in price reflecting a bit more Chablis 'profile'

 

a different year of course. I used to get either from time to time and make a nice dinner that reflected these wines.  there were a treat for

 

for me, as Im Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.

 

this wine I charged-up and had a small taste 'still'

 

it had no Chablis 'terroir' at all.  it tasted like a dilute white wine from NoWheresVille.  it had no off nor bad taste.

 

it just tasted like a 'white dilute grape drink'

 

if you do try it

 

1 ) dont get 30 cases as you will take them back

 

2 ) maybe its the year or this one bottle.

 

Ill speak to my Wine Guys (-ettes) and get my $$ back

 

Sooooooooo  disappointed.

 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

A problem with methode rotuts is I cannot make a liter last two meals.  I measure carefully, not sure what I am doing wrong.  This would not be that much of a problem since I've been keeping two pressure vessels chilled at all times, however for best results in my hands methode rotuts must be pressurized at freezer temperatures.  Warmer methode rotuts may be indeed quite potable but the full expression is not realized at refrigerator temperatures. 

 

To date I've been afraid to store the vessels in the freezer.  But in desperation that has changed.

[rotuts]

I make 750 cc at a time, very well chilled first.  cold cold.

 

its does not last long enough in my situation to make any useful observations about your problem.

 

but you are correct, colder is better.  it warms in the glass and on the palate.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Tonight was my finest M.R. to date.  Rather than Soave I employed a bottle of Washington state chardonnay, Ryan Patrick "naked chardonnay" 2012, no oak.  Good stuff.

[rotuts]

""   no oak. ""

 

like that.

[rotuts]

decided to continue my MR studies by trying a new wine:  A Muscadet from TJ's

 

i like Muscadet, the very dry versions, with seafood, and salmon, esp. salmon w a good amount of fat from just behind the Head

 

no tails for me !

 

Mise :

 

 

I followed my usual protocol :  got the wine very cold, the charging container also, etc.

 

let it stay cold in the refrig for the usual time.

 

I was a bit disappointed.  not with the wine, it had Mescadet Terroir, and I liked it.

 

but it had very few bubbles.  I could 'taste' those bubbles, but not really see them so no

 

pic.

 

after my first glass, I went to the extreme of using a second charger for the 3/4 bottle left.

 

this is usually not my policy.  those charger are after all, 45 cents a piece !

 

no real change.

 

Ive thought about it, and perhaps the wine is more acidic than most, and the CO₂ there for

 

did not dissolve 'as usual'  still I enjoyed the experiment and did not take this bottle back.

 

but noted this wine did not Fizz Up enough to justify 45 c / bottle, let alone 90 c.

 

burp.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Cheap sparkling wines are often made by carbonation, always with carbon dioxide. It's nice to think that rotuts made it up but it's been around for a long while. Portuguese espumosos are always made in this manner.

 

I have been reading Dave Arnold's Liquid Intelligence.  He has a whole section on using mixtures of different gasses. (Not that I haven't done my own experiments.)  Because, he says, the technique can be abused he does not offer explicit instructions.  However it is not hard to figure out.

 

Dave also offers a helpful hypothesis as to why carbonated alcohol leaves imbibers on the floor.

[Thanks for the Crepes]

Please, JoNorvelleWalker,

 

You're leaving us hanging.

 

As a fan of vodka and seltzer, I'd love to know this hypothesis.

 

Vodka and plain water doesn't taste very good to me, and I've tried to jazz it up with lemon or other citrus and something sweet, but it doesn't work for me, except as an occasional dessert.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Please, JoNorvelleWalker,

 

You're leaving us hanging.

 

As a fan of vodka and seltzer, I'd love to know this hypothesis.

 

Vodka and plain water doesn't taste very good to me, and I've tried to jazz it up with lemon or other citrus and something sweet, but it doesn't work for me, except as an occasional dessert.

 

According to Dave (the sidebar on page 295 "Carbonating Responsibly"):  "Alcohol is absorbed mainly in your small intestine, not your stomach...The current wisdom is that the CO2 in drinks helps speed gastric emptying into your small intestines, causing a rapid rise in BAC."

 

My own theory as a quondam biochemist is that quantity may have something to do with it.

[Thanks for the Crepes]

JoNorvelleWalker,

 

Thanks for the response.

 

I'm a bit taken aback, however, since I've never perceived the slightest difference between carbonated and non as far as alcholic absorption.

 

Perhaps I wasn't the best observer? Glug, glug, glug?

 

Anyways, had to Google your latin term "quondam". It just means former, so now I grok.

 

Now, unless you are a fan of Heinlein, you may have to Google. 

[rotuts]

take a peek here:

 

http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/4/381

 

my studies are far from completed.

 

BTW  who would de-gass champ. ?

[gfweb]

take a peek here:

 

http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/4/381

 

my studies are far from completed.

 

BTW  who would de-gass champ. ?

 

 

Interesting, and confirms my personal studies.

 

There are some methodological issues that the peer-reviewers seem to have missed.  Degassing was done with a blender, which could also have blown-off the volatile ethanol. They say that ethanol levels were measured but not that they were equivalent, only that the same dose of alcohol was given to each group.  From this I infer that there was a difference in alcohol level after degassing and  the authors gave a larger volume of degassed  champagne to compensate.  If this did involve giving a larger volume of degassed champagne there is then a variable added...the rate of alcohol absorption may vary with volume of overall liquid consumed.  In fact this volume effect could easily account for the slightly delayed absorption of the degassed (diluted)  that eventually catches up to the bubbly levels.  A better method would have been to add EtOH to the degassed and keep volumes equal. Perhaps they did it this way, but the failure to mention it indicates to this reviewer that it wasn't considered. They also don't mention the temperature of the champagne etc.

 

 

Niggling points? Perhaps, but I think Rotuts, Jo and I could have done it better.  Perhaps a road trip is in order.

Edited December 19, 2014 by gfweb (log)