Freeze Dryers and Freeze Dried Food (Part 1)

Mr. Mike · September 22, 2014

So everbody seems to be doing different things with the F. dryers...

What influenced you to look at this machine and what was the deciding factor for your "pulling the trigger" and buying one?

Mine was... I was REALLLLLLLY tired of loosing meat to freezers going down and wanted a way to keep it from going bad.

When I saw this machine .. I vetted them pretty good and bought one on the spot and took ot home that weekend.

Practiced on a few things an realized it was "too slow" for what I wanted to do. SInce then I've bought 2 more machines for a total of three.

Yep... spent some money... but compared to how much I've lost in meat.. wild game meat to boot... to me...this machine is priceless.

I'm also using it for my current business making sweet treats for my customers/clients as a "thank you" it's all a "bidness" write off.

And you?

Have my posts on my experiences been helpful or more confusing..? I have tons more to share if needed and a lots of "tips" to help out

I've pretty much hogged the last page or two of this thread and down't want to offend anyone.

Let me know what you want to know and I'll share what I know.

M

Edited September 22, 2014 by Mr. Mike (log)

Kerry Beal · September 22, 2014

Ah for me - it's a gadget. I love my gadgets!

I've used various freeze dried items for my chocolate making - was interested in making things that weren't commercially available that I thought would be good in chocolate.

It is interesting though how I seem to be emptying things out of the freezer and freeze drying them. I've had a few major freezer breakdowns myself.

dbinokc · September 22, 2014

Mike,

I have to say I am blown by how much you use your machines and the things you have tried. I have learned a lot and appreciate your posts so far.

I am definitely a gadget geek and have actually looked many times over the years for a freeze dryer. Everything I had seen, until earlier this year, was either

too big or out of my price range. When I saw the HR freeze dryer, there was no doubt that I was going to order one.

I am still in the experimentation stage, but probably the biggest thing I am trying to do is find ways to use the machine to make my life easier.

Things like freeze drying ingredients such as onions, green peppers, mushrooms, etc help me because I can always be sure I have a ready supply when

I want to cook something.

I am not sure what direction I will take on the meat freeze drying. I do plan on doing up some precooked chicken cubes

that I can throw into a dish when needed.I have a big package of frozen meatballs that do not get used very often that I

may put in the machine as well.

An item that has worked nicely for me is freeze dried salsa. Before I would freeze my salsa into smaller packages to take to work to use for lunch.

The freeze dried salsa I find much more convenient to use. Add a little water and you can have salsa as thick or thin as I like.

Mr. Mike · September 22, 2014

If you are going to do meat balls... if they are over a 1/2 oz - about 1/2-3/4" dia.

TIP Thaw them out, cut them in half and then dry them 1-2 oz m-balls don't dry too well..too thick.

TIP... If your drying cycle is complete and is beeping.. do you know how long it's been done..? Here is a tip to make SURE everything stays dry.

If your cycle is complete and you weren't home to catch it as it finishes. The product will stay in the Frozen state until the machine is shut off and starts to defrost.

So if you take out the dried product ..it still is at a very cold temperatur. When you take out the dried product and go from the garage to the house or from another room...... what happens. FROST starts to appear on the product... .and now you are going to seal that product with Frost on it???? THAT just started to "undo" what you just spent 24-26 hours doing...removing moisture.

Here is how to fix that.. and I do this every time I'm not there at the end of the cycle. I shut the machine to the off position for about 5 min.

TIP You don't want to do a off/on quick switch. You might just blow out the seals on the freezer compressor.

Turn the machine back ON and the units starts to freeze time of about 9 hours. Turn your "freeze time knob" till the freeze time hits "0" and the vac. pump starts up. The heater will kick in on the trays. The heater will heat the trays and the product to above room temp. in about 30 min. Actually, the trays will be quite hot and I use a paper towel to hold the trays while I move them from the garage to the house.

The product will be above the ambient air temp and will not collect frost. (Pretty smart huh.. ?? That's the engineer in me coming out.. lol...) I do that almost every time to insure I have the dryest product possible before I put it into the mylar or vac. bag. It takes VERY little moisture to turn a batch to a moldy or "not crunchy" condition.. ask me how I know THAT one.

THAT tip is a good one... promise.

M

Edited September 22, 2014 by Mr. Mike (log)

teonzo · September 22, 2014

What would you like me to do with the albumin now Teo?

I would try to make a fruit flavoured meringue and then I would try to FD it instead of dehidrating it in the usual way.

I'm pretty sure commercial powdered albumin is FD-ed, so your albumin should work. I would grind it to powder, weigh 20 g of albumin and 180 g of fruit puree (whatever you want), mix a bit and let it rest for about 1 hour. Then make a French meringue adding 200 g of sugar, form some meringues and then try to FD them.

Teo

huiray · September 23, 2014

No whiz-bang gadgets needed for some folks to do this centuries ago. :-)

http://www.mitoku.com/products/driedtofu/history.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=fby2Er0seMMC&pg=PA399&lpg=PA399&dq=%22kori+dofu%22&source=bl&ots=K0_KZrwJ1k&sig=6CzG1gDlAFG3KHZDcNQ2R-A84Zc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Ls8hVIz-K8idyAT--IHoCQ&ved=0CFIQ6AEwCQ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu%C3%B1o

https://www.google.com/search?q=Chu%C3%B1o&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=58ohVPzLN9a3yATRx4HoDg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1216&bih=948

huiray · September 23, 2014

...I'm pretty sure commercial powdered albumin is FD-ed...

Teo

Here's the catalog listing from a well-known supplier of ovalbumin.

Kerry Beal · September 23, 2014

No whiz-bang gadgets needed for some folks to do this centuries ago. :-)

http://www.mitoku.com/products/driedtofu/history.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=fby2Er0seMMC&pg=PA399&lpg=PA399&dq=%22kori+dofu%22&source=bl&ots=K0_KZrwJ1k&sig=6CzG1gDlAFG3KHZDcNQ2R-A84Zc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Ls8hVIz-K8idyAT--IHoCQ&ved=0CFIQ6AEwCQ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu%C3%B1o
https://www.google.com/search?q=Chu%C3%B1o&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=58ohVPzLN9a3yATRx4HoDg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1216&bih=948

Indeed - found the Incan potatoes quite fascinating when I read about them in the past. Sure wouldn't be able to do that around here!

huiray · September 24, 2014

Indeed - found the Incan potatoes quite fascinating when I read about them in the past. Sure wouldn't be able to do that around here!

Lucy stomping grapes. I'm sure she would have been useful with those Incas freeze-drying those potatoes.

Edited September 24, 2014 by huiray (log)

Shalmanese · September 24, 2014

I wonder what coconut cream would be like in the freeze dryer?

Tri2Cook · September 24, 2014

So an envelope from Kerry arrived today. It contained a packet of the hot sauce she freeze dried and a small vial of the sauce she used. I gave the sauce a taste just to be familiar with that particular sauce, cleared things with a cracker and some water and chomped on a nice chunk of the freeze dried stuff. The process itself worked perfectly. Completely dry, crunchy hot sauce. As for the product, it didn't do what I hoped it might. The freeze dried stuff has the components I expected, concentrated heat and a LOT of salt. What it doesn't have is the components I was hoping it might. The vinegar has all but disappeared and the heat has become a more generic heat than a dry representative of the original hot sauce. I then took a portion of the powder and hydrated it in water. This was strictly guesswork, I have no idea how much water was missing from that particular amount of the dried product. Regardless, something about the vinegar didn't seem to do well in the process. Dilution in water took it back to a more balanced saltiness/heat and there are hints of mild vinegar flavor lurking in the corners but it doesn't really seem to immediately make itself known like in the original sauce. The reason I emphasized "immediately" is because, as I'm typing this, the ghost of vinegar past keeps whispering to me. It's kinda like vinegar flavoring or something, a vinegar aftertaste but no real acidity. So it's not really what I was picturing but it's still pretty cool (and I think it'd be tasty on fries and such).

Kerry Beal · September 25, 2014

I wonder what coconut cream would be like in the freeze dryer?

Shall add to the list to try. Not sure how soon though.

**Smithy** · September 25, 2014

Regarding the hot sauce: I wonder whether some things need to be reconstituted with vinegar or another liquid that isn't water? (I had to stop myself from writing 'rehydrating with vinegar' :-D)

Fernwood · September 25, 2014

Regardless, something about the vinegar didn't seem to do well in the process. Dilution in water took it back to a more balanced saltiness/heat and there are hints of mild vinegar flavor lurking in the corners but it doesn't really seem to immediately make itself known like in the original sauce. The reason I emphasized "immediately" is because, as I'm typing this, the ghost of vinegar past keeps whispering to me. It's kinda like vinegar flavoring or something, a vinegar aftertaste but no real acidity. So it's not really what I was picturing but it's still pretty cool (and I think it'd be tasty on fries and such).

I think acetic acid is quite volatile. If you boil down white (distilled) vinegar, you will find there is no residue at all.

That's why potato chip manufacturers have to fix it with maltodextrin or something similar in order to create a dry vinegar-flavor seasoning:

http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/09/the-best-salt-and-vinegar-chips-tasting-brands-most-acidic.html

I have to think it gets sucked away with the water during the freeze-drying.

Tri2Cook · September 25, 2014

Regarding the hot sauce: I wonder whether some things need to be reconstituted with vinegar or another liquid that isn't water? (I had to stop myself from writing 'rehydrating with vinegar' :-D)

I think acetic acid is quite volatile. If you boil down white (distilled) vinegar, you will find there is no residue at all.
That's why potato chip manufacturers have to fix it with maltodextrin or something similar in order to create a dry vinegar-flavor seasoning:
http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/09/the-best-salt-and-vinegar-chips-tasting-brands-most-acidic.html
I have to think it gets sucked away with the water during the freeze-drying.

That makes sense, I'll give it another go using vinegar this evening. Still doesn't accomplish what I'd hoped for though. I wasn't worried about being able to turn it back into a hot sauce, I was hoping to see a dry powder that still tasted like the original sauce, albeit concentrated.

Kerry Beal · September 25, 2014

I think acetic acid is quite volatile. If you boil down white (distilled) vinegar, you will find there is no residue at all.
That's why potato chip manufacturers have to fix it with maltodextrin or something similar in order to create a dry vinegar-flavor seasoning:
http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/09/the-best-salt-and-vinegar-chips-tasting-brands-most-acidic.html
I have to think it gets sucked away with the water during the freeze-drying.

Interesting - I did suspect there is a reason that maltodextrin is used for various liquids. Now - where is my supply of it buried?

huiray · September 25, 2014

I think acetic acid is quite volatile. If you boil down white (distilled) vinegar, you will find there is no residue at all.
That's why potato chip manufacturers have to fix it with maltodextrin or something similar in order to create a dry vinegar-flavor seasoning:
http://www.seriouseats.com/2012/09/the-best-salt-and-vinegar-chips-tasting-brands-most-acidic.html
I have to think it gets sucked away with the water during the freeze-drying.

That makes sense, I'll give it another go using vinegar this evening. Still doesn't accomplish what I'd hoped for though. I wasn't worried about being able to turn it back into a hot sauce, I was hoping to see a dry powder that still tasted like the original sauce, albeit concentrated.

http://forums.egullet.org/topic/145849-how-do-they-get-the-vinegar-taste-in-salt-and-vinegar-potato-chips/

Shalmanese · September 25, 2014

That makes sense, I'll give it another go using vinegar this evening. Still doesn't accomplish what I'd hoped for though. I wasn't worried about being able to turn it back into a hot sauce, I was hoping to see a dry powder that still tasted like the original sauce, albeit concentrated.

Shouldn't a mix of FD hot sauce powder and maltodextrin vinegar produce deliver that effect?

Tri2Cook · September 25, 2014

Shouldn't a mix of FD hot sauce powder and maltodextrin vinegar produce deliver that effect?

Very possibly but I was happy just seeing the result and thrilled that I actually got to try it. Now that I know the result, my curiosity regarding this particular idea is pretty much sated. The machine did exactly what it was supposed to do and did it well, I just didn't pick the best test item.

Kerry Beal · September 26, 2014

This morning's unloading -

The remaining Meyer Lemons and some raw corn. Can't believe how tasty this corn is. It's so much better than the commercial FD brand I bought in the past - pays to start with the best ingredients.

Black current and peach puree. The black current is back in the freezer - way too thick and dense to FD completely. A second run though should finish it off.

This is some Bon Maman cherry preserves that I had pureed for a chocolate center. Lots of sugar - so a very different texture than the unsweetened purees.

A bit of leftover ganache - it has quite a fascinating texture - I think l could roll truffle centres - FD them, then dip in chocolate. Should be interesting.

Big batch of guacamole. Followed Mr Mikes way of dividing the batch - broke into nice squares after it had dried.

Beth Wilson · September 27, 2014

MMMmmm freeze dried ganache :wub: It would certainly increase the shelf life I would think!

Kerry Beal · September 27, 2014

MMMmmm freeze dried ganache It would certainly increase the shelf life I would think!

Suspect it would - should do an aW test on it.

midnight1951 · September 27, 2014

Hello all,

Scott Neville from Harvest Right gave me the link to this forum, I had many questions for him and he knew that a lot of my questions would be answered in your forum. And I agree, Harvest Right should put up their own forum.

I am a retired grandmother, big time canner and jelly maker and novice prepper and devout Christian who studies prophecy. So I have goals for my freeze-drying. I also quilt, crochet, make home made soap and body products, make jewelry, paint, draw and on and on……….the only thing I do not do is scrap book, all my crafts have taught me is that they are very money consuming so I decided to stop at learning how to scrap book.

I have gone through all 7 pages of your posts and am learning quite a lot to say the least. My situation is that I seem to be from a different walk of life than a lot of you. I am definitely not a science person, some of your posts talking about the science went right over my head but that is ok I am still learning the most important thing to me – what will and what will not freeze dry and the pictures are such an added bonus enabling us to see what the food looks like, thank you all very much for the pics.

Some of your posts talked about freeze drying butter and it probably not working. If you would like to know how to preserve your butter just let me know, yes you can "can" butter, I found the instructions on the Internet and did it and it worked, but on the other hand I have not tried the butter yet, lol, definitely need to do that.

I just ordered my Harvest Right Freeze Dryer today. I took advantage of the opportunity to get the Stainless Steel model on special this last week in September. So to say the least I am anxious to get started whenever it gets here. I feel a little intimidated about the technical side of how to work the machine but Scott tells me he has customers much older than me that are using it so hopefully I will figure it out.

My biggest goal is to make meals and freeze dry them, especially my homemade soup after I have made a roast in the crock-pot. Since the homemade soup would be very "liquidy" Scott told me I would probably want to put the soup into the freeze dryer trays, then put the trays into the refrigerator freezer first, then when frozen put the trays into the freeze dryer. So Kerry if you have any home made soup lying around it would really be great if you tried this and posted pics, lol.

I look forward to more of all your posts and pictures, thanks so much to all of you for taking your time to do all this.

thanks to all,

darlene

Kerry Beal · September 27, 2014

Darlene - welcome to eGullet. I agree - stainless is the prettiest!

Not sure what there is in the way of soup in the freezer - might be some scotch broth.

I have a batch going now so it will be a day or so before I can try it. The trays are quite long - you'll want to start clearing out some space in your freezer now for the pre freezing.

It's not a difficult process - don't think age will have any effect on the ability to do anything with the machine (expect perhaps lift it!). You'll get into a rhythm of removing the water from the vacuum oil, filling it up, making sure all your various parts are turned on and valves closed, check the gasket to make sure the door seals properly.

dbinokc · September 27, 2014

Hi Darlene,
I have only had my machine for a few months and have benefited greatly from reading about others experiences with their machine.

I diid up a #10 can of tomato paste earlier in the week. This one was a bit challenging. For starters, there was a power outage that threw off the timer. While it was not off long enough for things for thaw out, through an additional sequence of events that are too complex to explain, I did have some water build up around the door seal. It turns out a wet silicon seal will not seal properly. This resulted in my vacuum pump sucking air for several hours until I got home and discovered the problem. So shut the machine down, dry out the seal and try to start again. However now I had a vacuum pump stall which tripped the breaker! Reset the breaker, cycle vacuum pump off and on a few times to clear out the oil and finally get rolling again!

I did finally get freeze dried tomato paste though. However I was expecting something that I could easily crush into a powder. That turned out to not be the case. It reconstitutes just fine, but I ended up using all my mason jars to store them in. I may move some to mylar bags just free up some jars. All the freeze dried stuff sucks up moisture so fast, I did not want ot try to run it through my food processor. to powderize it.

I currently have 3 pounds of mushrooms in the machine right now. I already did 1 pound of mushrooms a month ago and it was sure was nice to always have mushrooms ready to use. I never could use fresh ingredients before they would spoil and I am really not a fan of making frequent trips to the store.

Edited September 27, 2014 by dbinokc (log)

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