Wine & Spirits Bargains at the PLCB (Part 2)

[CherieV]

isn't the alcohol content on the label?

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I would guess the poster was referring to the "balance" of the alcohol in the wine vs sugar/acidity etc. Not necessarily the percentage listed on the bottle which is probably a normal 13.5%

The wine was drinking "hot" because it was out of balance with relation to the sugar and acidity levels. Not that the alcohol was actually any higher than usual.

[dagordon]

isn't the alcohol content on the label?

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I would guess the poster was referring to the "balance" of the alcohol in the wine vs sugar/acidity etc. Not necessarily the percentage listed on the bottle which is probably a normal 13.5%

The wine was drinking "hot" because it was out of balance with relation to the sugar and acidity levels. Not that the alcohol was actually any higher than usual.

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That's right, but I was also curious about what the stated alcohol content is, which I normally don't pay attention to, but feel like I should perhaps start looking at...

[KitchenMom]

I actually happen to have an empty bottle of the CS Whitehall Lane cab lingering around, and the label says the acohol content is 14.5%. FWIW, I actually enjoyed this wine, given that I started out with low expectations. I didn't notice the alcohol content in particular, just found it to be a pleasant, if not striking, cab.

[mike volker]

CS Whitehall Lane cab: I got to try this at a friends house last week, and its just as kitchenmom said, not terrible, but not great. Certainly not worth $45.

Best,

Mike

[Capaneus]

Who says the PLCB bureaucracy doesn't listen? The Forthcoming CS site just listed a number of small Bordeaux Chateaux. Nice enough. But what caught my attention is that, instead of "Suggested Retail", or "Quoted At", they now mention an "Average Web Retail". How 'bout that? Wonder how accurate those are? Hope they don't screw up. They'd be crucified by the Usual Suspects.

On the downside, there are still a number of "CS Special Cuvee" releases in the pipeline - and they still have "Suggested Retail" prices quoted. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that that program will be allowed to die, though.

[shacke]

Who says the PLCB bureaucracy doesn't listen? The Forthcoming CS site just listed a number of small Bordeaux Chateaux. Nice enough. But what caught my attention is that, instead of "Suggested Retail", or "Quoted At", they now mention an "Average Web Retail". How 'bout that? Wonder how accurate those are? Hope they don't screw up. They'd be crucified by the Usual Suspects.

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FWIW....

"Average web retail" CS wines using winesearcher pro:

$21.99 Chateau Citran 2003 - 1 retailer in US has it - $29.99

$29.99 Chateau de Veyres 2003 - 2 retailers in US have it - $44.99 and $59.99

$19.99 Chateau Haut Barrail 2003 - 1 retailer in US has it - $19.99

$19.99 Chateau Lalande Borie - 0 retailers

With more widely available CS, I have found mixed pricing in my experience - some better some not and occassionally a very good deal. granted, many abnormally low prices on WSpro are bait and switch or non existent wines.

[Jeff L]

The controversy continues...

Today's Inky has an article entitled "State's wine deals: Beyond Compare? Suggested prices for PA only Chairman's Selections can be difficult to judge"

The article goes on to mention specifically the Whitehall Lane cab fiasco along with the privately blended Silverado Cab. The jist of it is 1 or 2 misteps in a 500 bottle program is a pretty good track record. I tend to agree with this but misleading consumers is a breach of public trust if done intentionally. I have no doubt that it was not done intentionally.

[Rich Pawlak]

The controversy continues...

Today's Inky has an article entitled "State's wine deals: Beyond Compare? Suggested prices for PA only Chairman's Selections can be difficult to judge"

The article goes on to mention specifically the Whitehall Lane cab fiasco along with the privately blended Silverado Cab. The jist of it is 1 or 2 misteps in a 500 bottle program is a pretty good track record. I tend to agree with this but misleading consumers is a breach of public trust if done intentionally. I have no doubt that it was not done intentionally.

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I wonder where the writer got the "inspiration" to write the piece? Makes ya wonder....

[wkl]

what do you mean, rich? (not being snarky, i'm not sure i understand what your suggesting)

i just reread this article and maybe i have too much time on my hands, but it piques my inteserst on a couple levels.

anyone find the back pedaling by the gm at silverado, ummm, interesting? we are to believe the guy who is the broker knows the wine better than the general manager at the winery?

anyone else notice the quotes around napa valley in the descriptions of the whitehall lane wines?

"Regarding Weis' $26 figure, Newman said, "Suppose out of 500 products in your program, someone gave you inaccurate information on one of them?"

wouldn't mr newman's comment be more accurate if he said "Suppose out of ____ products i had a hand in blending, someone gave you inaccurate information on one of them?"

or did he actually have a hand in creating 500 special blends? the wines created only for the pa market are the wines with the pricing discrepencies.

why would whitehall lane take maybe $8/bottle (just a guess, but maybe not that far off) for a wine the broker and the plcb claim they could get 3 to 4 times more for (at a minimum) ?

just some random thoughts. not meant to disparage the plcb (who i am actually looking at little differently lately) or mr newmans work.

[guzzirider]

why would whitehall lane take maybe $8/bottle (just a guess, but maybe not that far off) for a wine the broker and the plcb claim they could get 3 to 4 times more for (at a minimum) ?

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Because it's not the only product that Whitehall Lane sells, and if they have any hopes of selling any of the other labels in PA, they take what the PLCB gives them on the CS. Its PA's famous "buying power" in action.

__Jason

[lancastermike]

The controversy continues...

Today's Inky has an article entitled "State's wine deals: Beyond Compare? Suggested prices for PA only Chairman's Selections can be difficult to judge"

The article goes on to mention specifically the Whitehall Lane cab fiasco along with the privately blended Silverado Cab. The jist of it is 1 or 2 misteps in a 500 bottle program is a pretty good track record. I tend to agree with this but misleading consumers is a breach of public trust if done intentionally. I have no doubt that it was not done intentionally.

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I wonder where the writer got the "inspiration" to write the piece? Makes ya wonder....

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I was thinking the same thing. Mr. Newman was very aggressive in promoting his side of the story and getting maximum ink out of the whole deal. Politics on the level that Mr. Newman chooses to engage on is a tough business. Does not come as a shock to me to see some stuff that may be considered as less than flattering to Mr. Newman published.

[KatieLoeb]

why would whitehall lane take maybe $8/bottle (just a guess, but maybe not that far off) for a wine the broker and the plcb claim they could get 3 to 4 times more for (at a minimum) ?

Because they can sell 800-1200 cases in one shot at a guaranteed price and free up their warehouse inventory space for the incoming vintage.

It's a no brainer for them. No having to carry the inventory or have to mark it down later and sell it piecemeal if it doesn't sell. Now it's someone else's headache to sell it off. Not theirs.

[Tim Dolan]

Can anybody recommend a nice red that would be ideal for drinking in front of a fireplace up in the Poconos? Preferably in the $20-$30 range (or less, of course) if possible. Thanks.

[Capaneus]

why would whitehall lane take maybe $8/bottle (just a guess, but maybe not that far off) for a wine the broker and the plcb claim they could get 3 to 4 times more for (at a minimum) ?

Because they can sell 800-1200 cases in one shot at a guaranteed price and free up their warehouse inventory space for the incoming vintage.

It's a no brainer for them. Not having to carry the inventory or have to mark it down later and sell it piecemeal if it doesn't sell. Now it's someone else's headache to sell it off. Not theirs.

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True, but in addition to that you have to factor in the fact that the '05 Californina vintage was just huge, and fairly high-quality in spite of that. Many producers are going to have a great deal of juice left over, unless they want to up bottlings to dangerous numbers. Making a special bottling for the PLCB is bound to be a better option than selling it in bulk to negociants.

And if you read carefully, it is pretty obvious (at least to me) that this is not a "different take" on their premier release. It's referred as coming from "young vines" (which usually yield inferior grapes) in several descriptions, and in any case I think it would be idiotic for the winery not to hold onto the best juice for themselves.

Finally, when you put all the various statements together, I think what happened is simply that the various parties decided to put the best spin on the releases, for the sake of marketing, without realising that there was such a deep pool of ill-will towards the LCB in some quarters that this would draw the disproportionate response it has.

[KatieLoeb]

All valid points as well, mon frere.

I particularly agree with you about the ill will that's been directed at the Whitehall Lane CS releases. If you're marketing a product that has never existed before, you will undoubtedly use a Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price as your baseline. No different than any other industry. If you were unhappy with your $12.99 bottle of cabernet then don't buy another one. If you only bought it because you thought it was a $55 bottle then you shouldn't believe everything you read. I'm certain there are some consumers that thought it was worth every penny. I hardly see this as a conspiracy on the part of the LCB.

[cdh]

Perfect analysis, Katie. MSRPs are bunk in every industry. And value, particularly in something like wine, is subjective. I still feel had for getting suckered into paying like $20 for a tasting pour of Opus One at the winery last time I was in Napa. Don't like it, not worth what they're asking for it. If the PLCB landed a truckload of Opus and flogged it for $20 I'd still not buy it depsite the ungodly MSRP. I don't like it. That doesn't make the PLCB fraudsters for selling a bottle of wine I'd value as worthess for $20.

Edited January 19, 2007 by cdh (log)

[philadining]

Sorry to divert our attention from Whitehallgate, but anybody else got anything to say about that EXP Late Harvest Viognier? I thought it rocked, and, ahem, thanks to the (former) Chairman, it's a good deal: $9.99 for a 375 ml. split. (Yes, I did some searching, haven't seen it much under $15.) (Code # 17800)

[KatieLoeb]

Phil:

I haven't tried the late harvest, but the EXP dry viognier bottling is always pretty good and a good value, FWIW.

[Dennis]

Has anyone tried the Nozzole Chianti Classico Riserva La Forra 2001 ($15.99)? I checked the pricing on-line and it's selling between $35 & $50. And Robert Parker rated the 2001 vintage a 94! Looks like another great deal by the former Chairman.

[HD73]

Has anyone tried the Nozzole Chianti Classico Riserva La Forra 2001 ($15.99)? I checked the pricing on-line and it's selling between $35 & $50. And Robert Parker rated the 2001 vintage a 94! Looks like another great deal by the former Chairman.

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It was a while ago, I had it at a boisterous dinner, and I'm not much of a wine expert - but those disclaimers aside, I thought it was great. Don't remember enough to give you specifics, but I liked it enough that I grabbed a couple bottles the next time I was at a wine and spirits store. In a city with so many Italian BYO's, having a few good Chianti Classicos in reserve is handy.

[Capaneus]

Has anyone tried the Nozzole Chianti Classico Riserva La Forra 2001 ($15.99)? I checked the pricing on-line and it's selling between $35 & $50. And Robert Parker rated the 2001 vintage a 94! Looks like another great deal by the former Chairman.

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I thought it was very good: a fair bit riper and more extracted than I expect Chianti to be, seemed almost like a Cal sangiovese, but having said that it had more than enough fruit and acidity to balance out, and was very tasty with Melograno's papardelle tartuffato.

Bought a half-case myself.

[Capaneus]

All valid points as well, mon frere.

I particularly agree with you about the ill will that's been directed at the Whitehall Lane CS releases.  If you're marketing a product that has never existed before, you will undoubtedly use a Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price as your baseline.  No different than any other industry.  If you were unhappy with your $12.99 bottle of cabernet then don't buy another one.  If you only bought it because you thought it was a $55 bottle then you shouldn't believe everything you read.  I'm certain there are some consumers that thought it was worth every penny.  I hardly see this as a conspiracy on the part of the LCB.

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Exactly. That's the most maddening aspect of the whole kerfuffle: one ot the very first things I was warned about, when I started venturing into vinous matters, was to never trust the little printed shelftalkers and posters. Misquoting reviews, mentioning scores given other vintages, generally misleading the unwary, are all practices endemic in the industry, I was told.

Against this, we might put the LCB's ill-advised - but to all appearances not deliberately malicious - MSRPs on the CS bottlings. MSRPs that furthermore seem to have been arrived at with input from the wineries. And now the rabid weasels in Others Forums act as if this is a perversion, a debauchery, an atrocity unheard of in our unsullied profession. They are shocked!, shocked! to find there is gambling going on here.

Feh.

Edited January 20, 2007 by Capaneus (log)

[dagordon]

I also finally had the bottle of Modus that I bought awhile back which was even better, but unfortunately, long gone.

Brought a botlte of the Modus to Pif recently, turns out it was pretty badly corked. Does anyone know the PLCB's policy about this? Can one get at least a partial refund? Unfortunately I forgot to bring the bottle with us when we left, but it'd be good to know for future reference.

I guess I'll have to start bringing a backup bottle, in case this should happen. I have to say I'm a big fan of the screw tops. Nearly pulled a muscle last night trying to remove a synthetic cork.

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My third and last bottle of the Modus was very badly corked too! Particularly distressing because the first was so good. Thankfully, I now always bring a backup.

This time I did save the bottle, I'm off to see what the store will do...

Beware: if you're bringing a bottle of Modus somewhere, bring a backup.

[dagordon]

Has anyone tried the Nozzole Chianti Classico Riserva La Forra 2001 ($15.99)? I checked the pricing on-line and it's selling between $35 & $50. And Robert Parker rated the 2001 vintage a 94! Looks like another great deal by the former Chairman.

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Not that it really matters, but parker gave this particular one a 90. To the extent that I have a grip on what his numbers mean, this sounds about right. I liked it very much.

[Misha]

Has anyone tried the Nozzole Chianti Classico Riserva La Forra 2001 ($15.99)? I checked the pricing on-line and it's selling between $35 & $50. And Robert Parker rated the 2001 vintage a 94! Looks like another great deal by the former Chairman.

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Not that it really matters, but parker gave this particular one a 90. To the extent that I have a grip on what his numbers mean, this sounds about right. I liked it very much.

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WS also gave it a 90 rating. I, too, liked it and now have 1/2 case in my cellar.