Rick Bayless and Burger King - Part 2

[SobaAddict70]

More seriously, I'm not sure what kind of cooking you do -- and forgive me, I don't at all mean to cause offense through ignorance -- but one of the things I've heard a lot of chefs on this board bitch about is having to have such-and-such an item -- crab cakes or molten chocolate cake or whatever -- on the menu because customers demand it.  If that's not true of you, you must be in a very fortunate position.  But it seems as though a lot of the chefs and professional cooks here do indeed need to spend a fair amount of time churning out food that they don't adore, because those crabcakes pay the damn rent.

You have only to look at her menus on the Dinner thread to know that she never includes anything typically customer driven.

No crab cakes or molten chocolate cupcakes there...heh.

Soba

[hollywood]

More to the point, though, I don't really see that I have the right to judge Bayless' moral standing.  And that's really the heart of my issue here.

Of course, that's why we love doing it.

[tanabutler]

Just waiting for Batali to endorse...Ragu or something now.

Ragu tastes ten times better than the Mario Batali stuff I bought at Trader Joe's. I am not exaggerating when I say his pasta sauce is the worst I've ever had in my life. It was oversalty, flat, dull and just plain dreadful. I had to mix in a whole lot of other tomato paste and real tomatoes to even make it palatable. After one serving, I gave the rest to my stepdaughter, who will eat anything. And even she agreed that it was wretched.

The worst and never again. Trader Joe's should be ashamed. I can't believe Mario Batali would put his name on something so terrible.

[hillbill]

Alls I can say is that, as the average schmo that I am, if I didn't know who this guy was and about all the controversy from reading about it here, when I saw the commercials I'd probably think, "who is this goofy yutz and why is he promoting Burger King" just as I do about other goofy yutzes unknown to me promoting various products.

That's what I thought after seeing commercial #2.

[jhlurie]

Okay, I decided if I'm going to continue to knock on the Crappy Baguettes and Bayless, I had to at least TRY all of the sandwiches (I'd only had Crappy Baguette #1). So I bopped on down to my local Burger King and bought a "Savory Mustard" and a "Smoky BBQ".

Crappy Baguette #2, the Savory Mustard, lacks one of the few good things about Crappy Baguette #1--the onion/pepper mix (hardly fresh as they claim, but at least decent). It consists simply of the too-chewy not-crust-enough bread, the too chewy not-firm enough reconstituted chicken patty, some mushy tomatoes, a smattering of lettuce, and what indeed is actually a reasonably savory mustard sauce.

The fact that the sauce isn't the nightmare that the sauce from the "Santa Fe" is hardly saves the sandwich. The onions and peppers on the Santa Fe at least gave you something to bite through with a slightly different texture. Since the too-chewy bread and the too-chewy "chicken" have almost the exact same texture, its just... weird. Unrelieved chewyness. Ick.

Crappy Baguette #3, the Smoky BBQ, is surprisingly not total shit. The sauce isn't nearly as sweet as I'd feared, and the onions and peppers are basically the same as the Santa Fe. Without the nightmare of that gloppy red sauce from the Santa Fe, the only barrier to this being at least edible is the chewy, chewy chewyness of everything. And as I said before, at least the onions and peppers have a slightly different kind of chewyness to them.

That said, I'm not going to feel even a twinge at continuing to make fun of Bayless' "some of the best BBQ around" statement (in fact, that just gave me an evil idea for the Hot Topics ), because Mr. Bayless, I've served BBQ. I know BBQ. BBQ is a friend of mine. Mr. Bayless, this is no BBQ.

Edited October 31, 2003 by jhlurie (log)

[Fat Guy]

I think it's telling that in Bayless's various letters, at least the ones that have been made public, there didn't seem to be any mention of a second ad. It would be interesting to know if, at the time the Chefs Collaborative people were meeting to decide what to do in response to Bayless's activities, they knew of the forthcoming ad.

[Tess]

Am I the only one who wonders when Bayless made the decision to donate the BK money to the Frontera Foundation?

[Fat Guy]

No, you are one of at least two people who wonders. Although I'm not sure I really wonder. I'm actually pretty damn convinced that it was an after-the-fact PR move and not something he had decided to do in advance -- otherwise, he surely would have announced his intention in his opening missive.

[hjshorter]

No, you are one of at least two people who wonders. Although I'm not sure I really wonder. I'm actually pretty damn convinced that it was an after-the-fact PR move and not something he had decided to do in advance -- otherwise, he surely would have announced his intention in his opening missive.

Convinced by what? Is there any way to know for sure? And how do you know he would have announced it in his opening missive?

[Fat Guy]

Doesn't it seem obvious to you that, in a letter meant to convince the Chefs Collaborative that it was okay for him to do a Burger King ad, he would have mentioned that he planned to donate the proceeds to a charitable foundation if indeed that was his intent at the time? His failure to mention that indicates that it was a decision he made later, after coming under fire.

[pjs]

"If you're going to be a whore, be a high-priced whore"

--Don Siegal

Apparently Bayless' price isn't high enough for him to not give it away after the fact for the sake of damage control.

Fucking amateur.

PJ

[River]

i read over on usenet he did an ad for taco bell too-true?

[Jason Perlow]

Okay, I decided if I'm going to continue to knock on the Crappy Baguettes and Bayless, I had to at least TRY all of the sandwiches (I'd only had Crappy Baguette #1).  So I bopped on down to my local Burger King and bought a "Savory Mustard" and a "Smoky BBQ".

Did you order it Off the Broiler for the best possible experience, or did you order it as is to get the same experience the unwashed masses do?

[Jinmyo]

i read over on usenet he did an ad for taco bell too-true?

No, I don't think so.

[soupkitchen]

How can someone who is a chairman for Chefs Collaborative represent Burger King? I would like to say I sometimes enjoy fast food and have nothing against there product. "It is what it is", but fast food joints are in total confliction with everything to do with sustainable agriculture. How can you represent both groups? $$$$, great, however I think something needs to said about Chefs Collaborative and who represents them.

[hillbill]

I have an insert from a bottle of Tabasco brand Chipotle pepper sauce featuring Rick Bayless promoting Tabasco.

Renowned chef, author and host of Public Television's  "Mexico - One Plate at a time," Rick Bayless shares a few of his favorite recipes using Tabasco.....

Rick is the owner and award-winning chef of Frontera Grill and Topolobampo as well as the creator of Frontera salsas, BBQ sauces, and organic tortilla chips.............

There's a small picture of him on what looks like a book cover "Rick Bayless's Mexican Kitchen" and below that a smaller picture of a jar of Frontera salsa.

On the flip side are two recipes below "Chef Rick Bayless & Tabasco brand Chipotole pepper sauce"

The date on the flyer is 2001 so this predates Burger King.

[mrsadm]

He says 100% of his fee went to some small farmer's coop.

It was the Frontera Foundation, right?

sorry if this has already been posted (I have not read all 33 pages of this thread!)

Here is what is posted on the Frontera Kitchens web site (http://www.fronterakitchens.com/rickbayless/whatsupwbk/):

What's Up With That Burger King Ad?

Dear friends, colleagues and co-workers:

Many of you have asked me why I chose to do that ad for Burger King. It was very seriously thought-through, and here is my reasoning in a nutshell: I decided that it’s time for those of us in the healthy food/sustainable food movement to applaud any positive steps we see in the behemoth quick-service restaurant chains. Seventy-five percent of our fellow Americans nourish themselves in their restaurants at least once a week (an even more serious statistic is that almost 20 percent eat fast food three or more time a week). I can no longer ignore these statistics, and I ask you not to either.

I can’t take responsibility for feeding all those fast food customers in my restaurant. Besides, most of them couldn’t even afford my restaurant. And since our culture has made a wrong turn, several generations now haven’t even learned to cook. So my (or other’s) cooking shows and cookbooks don’t hit their radar screens. These are people who know little beyond processed food flavors. Helping them take steps toward honest, seasonal, natural flavors, means starting with them (accepting them) where they are.

These folks aren’t going to change over night. And the fast food franchises aren’t going to go away. But if my BK ad encourages a few hundred thousand people to experience a tasty, less-processed sandwich of crusty bread with grilled chicken, a sauce made from roasted tomatoes and poblano chiles, plus a topping of grilled fresh bell peppers and onions—that’s huge. What realistic justification could one have for NOT promoting that?

So I choose to work on both ends of the spectrum. At Frontera/Topolobampo, we’ve developed an amazing team of talented chefs a who purchased just under half-million dollars from local, sustainable family farms last year. This year our Frontera Farmer Foundation has raised nearly $300,000 to distribute to small family farms in the form of capital improvement grants. Clearly, we’re committed to promoting local, seasonal, sustainably raised products in the hand-crafted dishes at our fine-dining restaurants. But I refuse to limit myself to just this small-but-fast-growing segment, dismissing millions of Americans who are light-years from knowing the wonders of local organic produce. I want to help them along, too. Starting right where they are.

I know this bridging of categories makes some people uncomfortable. But that’s honestly who I am. I’m both eco-chef and fast-food supporter, if I’m given a voice for positive change in both those camps. And I’m ethnic chef, bringing respect to a little-appreciated cuisine through restaurants, books and television shows. I’m co-author with my teenage daughter of a book out next fall exploring how cooking with folks in other countries develops a unique language of friendship and family. I’m a health writer, encouraging people to embrace the realistic role of fabulous food in healthy living. For me it is unconscionable to limit myself to one camp, since food touches our lives in so many ways.

Most people think I did the BK ad for the money. Well, that’s not me—never has been. Besides, all the money is going to our Foundation to support small, sustainable family farms around Chicago. The Frontera Farmer Foundation is going to have a much bigger impact. And, I also believe, these new offerings at Burger King are, too.

Sincerely,

Rick Bayless

[tanabutler]

How can someone who is a chairman for Chefs Collaborative represent Burger King?  I would like to say I sometimes enjoy fast food and have nothing against there product.  "It is what it is",  but fast food joints are in total confliction with everything to do with sustainable agriculture.  How can you represent both groups?  $$$$, great, however I think something needs to said about Chefs Collaborative and who represents them.

Much has been made of this point, from nearly the beginning of the thread. I wrote Chefs Collaborative and posted their reply to my letter, upthread.

As I have said before, I think the very most generous motives that could be ascribed to Bayless's commercial is that he's hopelessly naïve about what he has done.

[mamster]

Again:

What realistic justification could one have for NOT promoting that?

Because the sandwich tastes absolutely terrible. I tried it. A bunch of you tried it. Did anyone think it was better than merely edible?

Here's the thing. I've tried the Santa Fe baguette and it's much, much worse than a Burger King cheeseburger, which is not very good. If I made a chicken breast sandwich at home on homemade bread with poblano chiles, onions, and bell peppers, it would be insanely better than a Burger King cheeseburger. It also wouldn't cost any more than a Santa Fe baguette, and I don't get any of the economies of scale BK does. The conclusion the average consumer should make from trying the Santa Fe baguette is that healthy food tastes like crap.

What realistic justification could one have for promoting that?

[Jinmyo]

I have an insert from a bottle of Tabasco brand Chipotle pepper sauce featuring  Rick Bayless promoting Tabasco.

Tabasco is a venerable and respected sauce. Bayless supplied recipes using it. I have no problem with that at all.

[jbraynolds]

Tried the so-called/alleged BBQ sandwich and, it is even worse than the first one. The sauce is like that god-awful Bullseye stuff that they've used on their Ranch Burger or whatever it's called. It may even be the Bullseye stuff, I didn't notice. As an Oklahoma boy, Bayless should both know better and be ashamed.

[pjs]

[As I have said before, I think the very most generous motives that could be ascribed to Bayless's commercial is that he's hopelessly naïve about what he has done.

That's also my take on his dumb-ass participation in this campaign. BK's marketing continues to suck as it has since HIYW.

I'd even wager Rachael's fee was bigger than Rick's.

O'Neil's my man, though. I'd bet he gets a million or so a year from the bastards for claiming to eat the crap.

PJ

[tommy]

i had a double whopper "off the broiler" today. i have to say it was in fact much better than usual. i reminded me of what i remember them tasting like years ago. as fat guy reported, the toppings were cool and crisp, and the flavors were distinct. definitely the way to go, if you're going that way to begin with. the ordering didn't pose a problem. i asked the kid if many people ordered it that way, and he said "yeah, sometimes."

[IrishCream]

Personally, I am thrilled that RB has endorsed a very low-fat fast food sandwich. My beloved husband, who is quite overweight and is trying to diet, was impressed by the ad. Before I even noticed this thread he told me about the ad. He was excited that a chef was recommending a BK sandwich. He is avoiding fast food places right now but next time he goes he will only consume 5 grams of fat. And if they are really bundling it with a low-fat salad and water...that is quite a positive change. In fact, it is monumental.

To all of you complaining about the taste....that is NOT what is important. Of course, it does not compare favorably with sandwiches that have 15-20-25-50 grams of fat. We all know fat enhances flavor. What strikes me as important is that BK is spending more than usual to advertise a low-fat sandwich and that is a change in the right direction. And I am glad Rick Bayless recognized that and lent his support.

[Jason Perlow]

Then they should have positioned it as a diet sandwich and with a respected diet authority that would be equally willing to sacrifice their integrity and career. Nothing about that sandwich says "diet" to me.