Christmas presents for the cook and the kitchen

[Shel_B]

Toots has just given me some good news. For Christmas I can, more or less, pick my gift. She's given me a mid-three figure budget and told me to have fun.

Well, I've been on a roll with kitchen and cooking things lately, and if I decide to continue in that way, I'd like to get something I wouldn't get for myself. One thing I've always wanted was a great copper pot, and that's certainly something I'd never buy for myself. I.ve given some, but not very much, thought to this. The items I use most in my kitchen are a 4-quart All-Clad saucepan, a 3-quart All-Clad sauté pan, and a 10-inch skillet. They all date to the late 1970s, and are the heavier Master Chef series.

If I were to go for a saucepan, I'd look for either a 6-quart or an 8-quart pot. A copper skillet, perhaps a scosh bigger than the 10-inch might be my second choice, with a similar sized sauté as the last choice.

I think I'd want a SS lined pot.

So, what would you suggest with these choices in mind? Any other types of cookware I should consider? Brands? Quality concerns I should look out for? Pointers to great deals, good sources?

Thanks!

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I bought my Falk from

http://www.copperpans.com/

Very pleased with the company and the dealer. Be aware, they are very heavy!

[Dave Hatfield]

I might be tempted into a really high quality casserole. Staub or similar. With winter approaching they're just the thing for long cooked stews.

My other expensive want is a Kenwood mixer. Their top of range model does it all. They put Kitchen Aid to shame. The sausage grinder & stuffer are just super.

[Shel_B]

I bought my Falk from

http://www.copperpans.com/

Very pleased with the company and the dealer. Be aware, they are very heavy!

From the company's web site:

I regret to report that after 17 years of establishing the Falk brand in the North America (and substantial financial investment) that Falk has signed a new distributor for the US. The legality of this new distribution arrangement will be a matter for the courts to decide, nonetheless, we will no longer be distributing their fine cookware. Please take advantage of our clearance prices while they last!

So, where's my recourse if there's a problem?

Edited October 15, 2013 by Shel_B (log)

[Shel_B]

I might be tempted into a really high quality casserole. Staub or similar. With winter approaching they're just the thing for long cooked stews.

My other expensive want is a Kenwood mixer. Their top of range model does it all. They put Kitchen Aid to shame. The sausage grinder & stuffer are just super.

Already have two Le Creuset. Have no need or desire for a mixer, but, if I did have to use one, I could borrow Toots' KA.

[weinoo]

Go out to dinner. Take Toots.

[rotuts]

"""" Go out to dinner. Take Toots. """"

excellent suggestion.

I'm very lucky and have 16 heavy copper pots and pans from France.

from here:

http://eshop.e-dehillerin.fr/en/copper-cuprinox-extra-thick-xsl-243_270.html

I would not get them now, they were cheap when I got them in the '80's and I loved them for a long time. they are way out of date in a purely practical way, and very expensive now. that's not to say you would not enjoy one: consider then the 'frying pan' :

http://eshop.e-dehillerin.fr/en/round-frying-pan-iron-handle-stainless-steel-interior-26-cm-xml-243_270-1224.html

it gets very hot and gives a nice sear. i still use the two I have. the pots almost never: the sides get hot and heat the room not the contents as such. copper conducts in all directions. takes forever to get to a simmer.

I have two of these:

http://eshop.e-dehillerin.fr/en/stewpan-with-lid-two-bronze-handles-interior-stainless-steel-24-cm-xml-243_270-1201.html

and use them still. but the price is still relatively high. but its one Pot!

I think Sur la Table has an equivalent brand. but to look there. make sure you look at the heaviest ones!

here is what currently interests me:

http://www.amazon.com/DeBuyer-Mineral-Element-Frypan-Round/dp/B00462QP0W/ref=pd_sim_sbs_k_5/192-2274867-2299423

Ive seen them at WmSonoma, and a few people here have them and swear by them. you have to be interested in 'conditioning' them w flax oil. part of the enjoyment.

looking forward to your 'pic's of your pic's'

then there is the whole deal on Japanese knives ..... ( one )

have you tried an induction plate? do you have room for one? i have one and love it.

http://www.amazon.com/Max-Burton-6000-1800-Watt-Induction/dp/B000MVN1M6/ref=sr_1_3/176-3908230-2927616?ie=UTF8&qid=1381844160&sr=8-3&keywords=induction+plate

Edited October 15, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

in looking over your initial thoughts again, you've answered your own question:

Life is Short, The Art is Long:

One Copper Pan/Pot it should be. pleeese get the ones that are 2.5 mm of cooper, not the 1.5 mm

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/de-buyer-prima-matera-copper-fry-pan/?pkey=e|copper%2Bpans|34|best|0|2|24||6&cm_src=PRODUCTSEARCH||NoFacet-_-NoFacet-_-NoMerchRules-_-

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/mauviel-pro-fry-pan/?pkey=e|copper%2Bpans|14|best|4294964826|1|24||13&cm_src=PRODUCTSEARCH||Brand-_-Mauviel-_-NoMerchRules-_-

Pricy:

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/mauviel-pro-5-quart-soup-pot/?pkey=e|copper%2Bpots|21|best|0|1|24||6&cm_src=PRODUCTSEARCH||NoFacet-_-NoFacet-_-NoMerchRules-_-

http://www.surlatable.com/product/PRO-1142553/Mauviel+Mheritage+250c+Skillets;jsessionid=D51C0FEE33F3D8722112FA8C05C8E044.slt-app-01-p-app2

[Smithy]

You mention copper pots but not copper bowls. Julia Child and Lynne Rosetto Kasper, among others, insist that you'll only get the best whipped eggs (for a souffle, for instance) by whipping them in copper. Would that appeal? I have no suggestions for make or model.

As opposed to a sauce pan, what about a stock pot? I'd suggest nothing smaller than 8 quarts, and perhaps going up to 12. Again, no help on type. I adore my Revere Ware aluminum-disk pots for their styling and functionality, but that particular model is no longer made. Partially-clad stock pots (going up the side) or aluminum disk bottoms carry the heat where you need them.

Another thought with regard to stock pots is to get one with a pasta insert for easy rescue and drainage.

What a fun problem to have!

[MelissaH]

Or, if you don't already have one, have you given any thought to a pressure cooker? We like ours because it enables us to not have to plan ahead quite so much.

[Shel_B]

You mention copper pots but not copper bowls. Julia Child and Lynne Rosetto Kasper, among others, insist that you'll only get the best whipped eggs (for a souffle, for instance) by whipping them in copper. Would that appeal? I have no suggestions for make or model.

As opposed to a sauce pan, what about a stock pot? I'd suggest nothing smaller than 8 quarts, and perhaps going up to 12. Again, no help on type. I adore my Revere Ware aluminum-disk pots for their styling and functionality, but that particular model is no longer made. Partially-clad stock pots (going up the side) or aluminum disk bottoms carry the heat where you need them.

Another thought with regard to stock pots is to get one with a pasta insert for easy rescue and drainage.

What a fun problem to have!

Copper bowls are of no interest. We don't eat eggs very much - I still have one egg left from a half-dozen I bought more than a month ago. Toots likes an occasional fried or boiled egg with fried potatoes, but I can't recall the last time we made that. Most of her eggs go into her flan or brownies, usually for potlucks - oh, and for her unique style of deviled eggs.

As for stock pots, well, I've got all that I need, but a nice 8-quart copper stock pot might do the trick. I'd not use a 12-quart size, that's for sure. I do have a decent 8-quart, disk bottom pot which has a pasta insert and a steamer insert. Rarely use either, much preferring to dump the pasta into a colander or a strainer.

Frankly, I'd get more use out of a nice 6-quart pan or pot. Ad I'm concerned that an 8-quart copper pot would be too heavy when full to move around comfortably.

Boy, I sure am fussy ... <LOL>

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I bought my Falk from

http://www.copperpans.com/

Very pleased with the company and the dealer. Be aware, they are very heavy!

From the company's web site:

I regret to report that after 17 years of establishing the Falk brand in the North America (and substantial financial investment) that Falk has signed a new distributor for the US. The legality of this new distribution arrangement will be a matter for the courts to decide, nonetheless, we will no longer be distributing their fine cookware. Please take advantage of our clearance prices while they last!

So, where's my recourse if there's a problem?

Oops. That is unfortunate. But the clearance prices might be attractive. And as to recourse, has anyone ever had a problem with a Falk pot?

I use copper for sauces and risotto, such as hollandaise this past weekend.

[Shel_B]

Or, if you don't already have one, have you given any thought to a pressure cooker? We like ours because it enables us to not have to plan ahead quite so much.

I don't have one, and haven't given it the slightest thought. I believe that I'd not use it. A friend took a pressure cooking class, and mentioned a couple of cookers to me. The next time I'm at her place she said she'd give me a lesson. Maybe that would pique my interest.

[rotuts]

http://www.copperpans.com/facoca.html

my copper 'casserole' is more like 6 qt. their 8 qt is a steal. but Id ask about a lid Id also ask about return policy/ they might have one. but get a lid.

[sigma]

FWIW, a copper skillet is kind of an oddity. Other than as table serving pieces, they were never used, and not really much made. They are kind of a sign of the guy who buys things in a set. The reason, of course, is that as copper became a cookware material, it was lined with tin, and the temperatures you would find being used in a skillet really aren't conducive to tin, which melts. When you started to see cuprinox then you saw more skillets, but it is almost unheard of outside the world of fancy kitchen decoration. Copper, anyway, is best on its natural environment, which is on a coup de feu rather than on gas or electric. That is where you get the best use of the material and avoid its pitfalls. Just my .02 with a little history built in.

If I were to get one copper pan I'd probably get a casserole so that it can double as a nice way to bring food to the table for festive occasions.

[rotuts]

all that you say is more or less true. Copper used to be cheap. Fuel used to be cheap. the French Franc used to be cheap. When I

got my pots & pans in Paris in the mid '80's, you bellied up to the counter and discussed what you were considering with the

Assistant, and the stuff was brought out. No Sets. the 12 or so P&P's I got cost me then $$ 325. I was eye-balling an Asparagus

Pot next. My Father got a little dusky, and that was that. He was fine after leaving the Shop. Interestingly this stuff was used

extensively in NYC higher end restaurants. So much so that the shipping charge from Paris to Kennedy via Air France was free.

By boat anywhere else ( 3 months minimum ) was $ 150. Im sure the restaurants in NYC that used this stuff had the coup d feu,

they also had Slaves dish washers to keep the stuff up. I have 2 'skillets' and 2 Saute pans. I used the skillets more often as it

was easier to use a spatula in them due to the sloping sides. A Home "Chef-ette" who enjoys cooking should have at lease 1

thick copper pan, lined in nickel or SS , "Just Because" in their life if they can afford it. " For History "

thats only 1 1/2 cents worth.

nothing special is going to happen in this Pan, than you cant do just as easily in perhaps a pan you already

have. But that's not the point. there is a hidden Health Value: its a small Gym at Home. Pumping Iron

Copper.

Edited October 15, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[sigma]

OK, that's a nice story. I remember Dehillerin in those days and using those pots in those restaurants. I was just suggesting that if somebody were to buy a single piece of copper it shouldn't be an oddity like a skillet which never had much use outside of crepes suzette. Likewise, I wouldn't suggest a button down shirt with French cuffs or vegetarian bacon, even though they can be had.

Edited October 15, 2013 by sigma (log)

[rotuts]

good points

""" like a skillet which never had much use outside of crepes suzette """

no home Chef-ette makes crepes suzette

we might be thinking of different items:

look here:

no one in there right mind would make crepes in this pan.

It is 2.5 mm copper. it weighs 1962 grams or 4 lbs 5 1/8th or so oz. its 10 1/2 " in diameter.

its stunning.

there it is. this is the ( for its purposes ) the finest pan I have.

it does what it does, perfectly. does not Do Sous Vide

If i had only one heavy copper item it would be this.

It Speaks to Me. I Understand It. It Says " Yum" to me every time I Use It.

Yum.

you don't talk to your Pots and Pans? not of course in conventional 'language'

but I do.

Yum.

Edited October 15, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[Robenco15]

"""" Go out to dinner. Take Toots. """"

excellent suggestion.

I'm very lucky and have 16 heavy copper pots and pans from France.

from here:

http://eshop.e-dehillerin.fr/en/copper-cuprinox-extra-thick-xsl-243_270.html

I would not get them now, they were cheap when I got them in the '80's and I loved them for a long time. they are way out of date in a purely practical way, and very expensive now. that's not to say you would not enjoy one: consider then the 'frying pan' :

http://eshop.e-dehillerin.fr/en/round-frying-pan-iron-handle-stainless-steel-interior-26-cm-xml-243_270-1224.html

it gets very hot and gives a nice sear. i still use the two I have. the pots almost never: the sides get hot and heat the room not the contents as such. copper conducts in all directions. takes forever to get to a simmer.

I have two of these:

http://eshop.e-dehillerin.fr/en/stewpan-with-lid-two-bronze-handles-interior-stainless-steel-24-cm-xml-243_270-1201.html

and use them still. but the price is still relatively high. but its one Pot!

I think Sur la Table has an equivalent brand. but to look there. make sure you look at the heaviest ones!

here is what currently interests me:

http://www.amazon.com/DeBuyer-Mineral-Element-Frypan-Round/dp/B00462QP0W/ref=pd_sim_sbs_k_5/192-2274867-2299423

Ive seen them at WmSonoma, and a few people here have them and swear by them. you have to be interested in 'conditioning' them w flax oil. part of the enjoyment.

looking forward to your 'pic's of your pic's'

then there is the whole deal on Japanese knives ..... ( one )

have you tried an induction plate? do you have room for one? i have one and love it.

http://www.amazon.com/Max-Burton-6000-1800-Watt-Induction/dp/B000MVN1M6/ref=sr_1_3/176-3908230-2927616?ie=UTF8&qid=1381844160&sr=8-3&keywords=induction+plate

I was actually on E.Dehillerin last night looking at things. I put two saucepans (approx. 4qt and 6 qt) and the bigget skillet in my cart and went through the process to find the final price with shipping. It was something like 1,100 dollars (after converting the Euros). Then I found the same pieces on Amazon.com and it ended up being around 1,600 dollars. So while it may not be as cheap as it used to be, if you buy a few pans at a time you can save upwards of 500 dollars.

This post is great and thank you for your insight! I DEFINITELY want their 11.8 cm skillet and two saucepans. This won't be for a year or so, but I can't help and look from time to time! Glad to hear you like it!

Edited October 15, 2013 by Robenco15 (log)

[sigma]

good points

""" like a skillet which never had much use outside of crepes suzette """

no home Chef-ette makes crepes suzette

we might be thinking of different items:

look here:

Pan.jpg

no one in there right mind would make crepes in this pan.

It is 2.5 mm copper. it weighs 1962 grams or 4 lbs 5 1/8th or so oz. its 10 1/2 " in diameter.

its stunning.

there it is. this is the ( for its purposes ) the finest pan I have.

it does what it does, perfectly. does not Do Sous Vide

If i had only one heavy copper item it would be this.

It Speaks to Me. I Understand It. It Says " Yum" to me every time I Use It.

Yum.

you don't talk to your Pots and Pans? not of course in conventional 'language'

but I do.

Yum.

I will attempt one more time to be clear. If you look at the Dehillerin site you will see no skillets in the tin lined copper range. There is a reason for this. When the French batterie de cuisine evolved copper was not used for skillets except for table presentation, hence my reference to crepes suzette. Now that you can get stainless lined copper, you can get stainless lined copper skillets, but as I said before, they are a historical oddity which didn't exist and has never found use outside of interior design. Nothing wrong with that, but nothing right either. It isn't a great material for a skillet since it is very sticky and responds quickly to temperature change, like placing a cold piece of meat in a hot pan. Better off use carbon steel or cast iron, or nonstick. All avoid the pitfalls of the copper skillet, the pan that never was and probably should not be.

[rotuts]

Would you post some pics?

on the sauce pans: I have 8. they will heat up your Kitchen more than what's in the Pot.

Move Large. go back and get one of the Induction ready items.

the get and induction Hob. :

http://eshop.e-dehillerin.fr/en/copper-inox-induction-copper-xsl-243_269.html

get some induction Copper.

[sigma]

Post pics of what?

[HungryC]

Hmm, I'd be tempted to pay for an experience, not for "stuff". Use the dough to take a class at the San Francisco Baking Institute: $598 will get you a mid-November workshop on baking in a wood-fired oven. http://sfbi.com/artisan-breads-wood-fired-oven-baking.html

Or fly all the way to Vermont and take a baking workshop at King Arthur Flour's lovely campus in Norwich, VT: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/visit/school.html?utm_source=kaf&utm_medium=redirect

Or use the $$ to eat your way through a particular cuisine or neighborhood in the Bay area.

Me, I'd probably spend it on the beginnings of an outdoor pizza oven.

[rotuts]

Robenco15

these are the pics we all are interesting in.

[rotuts]

""" no skillets in the tin lined copper ""'

there were NONE in '85, I doubt they Resurected Them Since Then. Of Course I Am Usually Wrong.

My Pots and Pans are lined with Nickel. Not YOur favorite?

so be it.

they are after all, 28 years old. Times Change. not so much for the Better.

the pan Ive showed you has served me well for 35 years.

In my hands. perhaps not in others.

that being said, I would not buy what I have for 4,500 USA $$ now.

times move on.

Not This Pan. it stays With Me.

Edited October 15, 2013 by rotuts (log)