Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2011

[PedroG]

In not a technical person but I would love it if my SVP had a place to plug in a probe that could be inserted into the bagged product with a readout on the display so I could easily keep track of the internal temp of what I am cooking. Does that make sense to any of the techno-geeks?

You might as well get a separate digital thermometer with a needle probe, preferably a NIST or ISO calibrated one, allowing you to check the accuracy of your SVP and SVS and other thermometers.

[liliumdavidii]

My first PID-controller was a 6-segment-programmable Model 1500A from FreshMealsSolutions, which makes turbo-aging easy. I guess FMS have discontinued this model, but the Auber WS-1500ELPM seems to be similar. I doubt whether it is worthwhile spending more money for this multi-step-programmability feature, you may as well step up manually.

I agree, basic PID controllers cost much less.

Why do you never use the built-in timer of your circulator? Do you prefer a manual approach?

[dcarch]

Many temperature controllers use mechanical relays. Mechanical relays have two positions, i.e. normally on and normally off.

You can use the off position to trigger a second temperature controller with a different cooking program.

dcarch

[PedroG]

My first PID-controller was a 6-segment-programmable Model 1500A from FreshMealsSolutions, which makes turbo-aging easy. I guess FMS have discontinued this model, but the Auber WS-1500ELPM seems to be similar. I doubt whether it is worthwhile spending more money for this multi-step-programmability feature, you may as well step up manually.

I agree, basic PID controllers cost much less.

Why do you never use the built-in timer of your circulator? Do you prefer a manual approach?

My SV rigs (a SVM/FMM and a SVM with a VEGA stockpot) reside downstairs in the air-raid-shelter for lack of room in the kitchen. So I would not hear an alarm-timer built into the PID-controller. For a 48h cooking I do not need a timer, it does not matter if it's 46h or 52h. And for short-time cooking it's not needed either, I always label my bags with the thickness and the time needed according to Douglas Baldwin's tables which I integrated into my thickness ruler (see somewhere upthread), and I drop the food into the bath sufficiently in advance, an hour more will not matter.

A timer that would shut off your bath would be dangerous, it would let your food drift down into the danger zone for an uncontrolled time.

[Anna N]

So I have been doing a lot of S-V meat over the past couple of weeks. I have had some great successes and some not so great. Some of the less than successful I can fix by increasing/decreasing the time/temp but one of the things that seems to defeat me is sirloin steak. I know it is not one of the "top" choices for steak but it is a bargain in terms of price. I have been using Douglas Baldwin's charts based on measured depth of steak. The steak is cooked rare to medium rare but remains pretty darn chewy. Anyone have any better success with this particular steak and if so, what time/temp do you recommend. Thanks very much.

[Merridith]

So I have been doing a lot of S-V meat over the past couple of weeks. I have had some great successes and some not so great. Some of the less than successful I can fix by increasing/decreasing the time/temp but one of the things that seems to defeat me is sirloin steak. I know it is not one of the "top" choices for steak but it is a bargain in terms of price. I have been using Douglas Baldwin's charts based on measured depth of steak. The steak is cooked rare to medium rare but remains pretty darn chewy. Anyone have any better success with this particular steak and if so, what time/temp do you recommend. Thanks very much.

Problem is that you want it rare (as do I) and it is not safe to cook it for long enough to tenderize it while at the same time keeping it truly rare. You must be willing to cook it at 55C or above (which is, in my book, not rare enough) for a longer period of time, say 12 hours or more, to get it to break down a bit. I tried sirloin once at 53.5 C for 3 hours and it was unchanged in texture. I decided that I would just use the SV for this cut as a method of getting it even and that I would put up with the toughness. Others have suggested the jacquard but I don't have one. Still others use marinade which I don't feel really tenderizes at all. Ultimately, I think the flavor of the sirloin makes the toughness worthwhile. I just cut is across the grain and very thinly for serving. Also, I find that it is a little more tender when cold, so I use it for salads, too.

[nickrey]

So I have been doing a lot of S-V meat over the past couple of weeks. I have had some great successes and some not so great. Some of the less than successful I can fix by increasing/decreasing the time/temp but one of the things that seems to defeat me is sirloin steak. I know it is not one of the "top" choices for steak but it is a bargain in terms of price. I have been using Douglas Baldwin's charts based on measured depth of steak. The steak is cooked rare to medium rare but remains pretty darn chewy. Anyone have any better success with this particular steak and if so, what time/temp do you recommend. Thanks very much.

Hi Anna,

Nice to see that you're getting some success with sous vide.

Your US cuts are different from the Australian/UK cuts. Sirloin here is a tender cut of meat. Apparently yours is less so.

With less tender cuts, I tend to go long and slow. I'd try 12 hours at 55C (131F). If it's too mushy at the end of this, cut the cooking time down to six hours.

[lstrelau]

Regular 3 mil chamber vacuum bags versus boilable bags.

Hi, is there a substantial difference between these? Are regular vacuum bags okay to use for short time cooking but would boilable bags be best to use for long time proteins like short ribs or shanks? When I bought my Vacmaster (and bags from same company) they just suggested regular vacuum bags. I have some boilable ones coming soon so will have both.

Thanks for any info

[DouglasBaldwin]

It's been awhile since I cooked sirloin but I seem to recall liking 6--8 hours at 130°F (55°C) for tri-tip steaks and sirloin tip steaks and 1--2 days for top sirloin steaks. If you've carefully calibrated your bath, you can drop the temperature down to 126°F (52.5°C) since Clostridium perfringens was shown not grow at that temperature (even when held at that temperature for three weeks).

[Anna N]

.....

Problem is that you want it rare (as do I) and it is not safe to cook it for long enough to tenderize it while at the same time keeping it truly rare. You must be willing to cook it at 55C or above (which is, in my book, not rare enough) for a longer period of time, say 12 hours or more, to get it to break down a bit. I tried sirloin once at 53.5 C for 3 hours and it was unchanged in texture. I decided that I would just use the SV for this cut as a method of getting it even and that I would put up with the toughness. Others have suggested the jacquard but I don't have one. Still others use marinade which I don't feel really tenderizes at all. Ultimately, I think the flavor of the sirloin makes the toughness worthwhile. I just cut is across the grain and very thinly for serving. Also, I find that it is a little more tender when cold, so I use it for salads, too.

I do have a jaccard and not sure why it didn't occur to me to use it. Will try that next time around. Thanks.

[Anna N]

....

Hi Anna,

Nice to see that you're getting some success with sous vide.

Your US cuts are different from the Australian/UK cuts. Sirloin here is a tender cut of meat. Apparently yours is less so.

With less tender cuts, I tend to go long and slow. I'd try 12 hours at 55C (131F). If it's too mushy at the end of this, cut the cooking time down to six hours.

I consider sirloin steak to be a relatively tender cut - nowhere near as tender as a rib eye but nothing I would ever consider braising either. Perhaps in the end sirloin and S-V are not a good match. Thanks.

[Anna N]

It's been awhile since I cooked sirloin but I seem to recall liking 6--8 hours at 130°F (55°C) for tri-tip steaks and sirloin tip steaks and 1--2 days for top sirloin steaks. If you've carefully calibrated your bath, you can drop the temperature down to 126°F (52.5°C) since Clostridium perfringens was shown not grow at that temperature (even when held at that temperature for three weeks).

I have one of the original SV Magic beta PIDs and it is extremely reliable and holds the temp on the button so I would not be afraid of dropping the temp but 1-2 days for sirloin just doesn't sound right somehow. When I have cooked a 1 1/2 to 2" sirloin on the grill until rare (125F) it has produced a very acceptable "cheap" steak with some chewiness but not what I would consider unacceptable toughness. I was hoping that S-V would give it that overall even doneness. Perhaps it was a less than superb grade of sirloin that I used. Will have to source an AAA grade sirloin and repeat my experiments. Thanks for the advice.

[Chris Amirault]

I consider sirloin steak to be a relatively tender cut - nowhere near as tender as a rib eye but nothing I would ever consider braising either. Perhaps in the end sirloin and S-V are not a good match. Thanks.

Anna, I think that's right: US sirloin and SV don't quite work, in my experience. It doesn't work cooked just to temperature and then seared quickly, and it doesn't benefit from the long cooking that transforms, say, flank steak into a remarkable piece of meat.

[gfweb]

Hmmm. Filet is a tender cut and it SVs very nicely. Might be more an issue of fiber structure.

[Mikels]

If I remember correctly, the final temperature determines if the meat is rare, etc. If the temperature can not get above that for rare meat, it will be rare if left in the water bath 3 hours or 30 hours. The consistency is a function of how long it is left in the water bath. The longer it stays in, the more connective tissue is converted into gelatin.

So, when I cook brisket at 131F for 48 hours, it is rare and tender.

[Kerry Beal]

Made some 36 hour short ribs (actually 42 hours given that I didn't want to get up at 2 am).

Wasn't paying attention or I would have caught this amazing jelly surrounding the ribs, froze it, and used it as a flavour boost for stews etc.

Browned them up on my Big Green Egg - wasn't as hot as I would have liked.

56º C - next time they will be a degree or two cooler for the colour - but OMG - meltingly tender, moist and so beefy!

[Merridith]

Made some 36 hour short ribs (actually 42 hours given that I didn't want to get up at 2 am).

Wasn't paying attention or I would have caught this amazing jelly surrounding the ribs, froze it, and used it as a flavour boost for stews etc.

Browned them up on my Big Green Egg - wasn't as hot as I would have liked.

56º C - next time they will be a degree or two cooler for the colour - but OMG - meltingly tender, moist and so beefy!

I recently did some according to David Chang (Momofuku) which were INCREDIBLE. I did them at 55C and they were perfectly pink. His method for browning is to toss them in some very hot oil and deep fry. I think that this method is perfect for short ribs because the outside gets a little crunchy but since you put them in to the hot oil right out of the fridge, they only warm up inside and do not get more done. Since I use a Food Saver, I froze the Momofuku marinade first before I bagged up the ribs. Then I tossed it all in to the water bath for 48 hours. Sumptuous!

[Anna N]

....

I recently did some according to David Chang (Momofuku) which were INCREDIBLE. I did them at 55C and they were perfectly pink.

....

Those Momofuku ribs are high on my list of "must do". Glad to hear they worked so well for you.

[e_monster]

....

Hi Anna,

Nice to see that you're getting some success with sous vide.

Your US cuts are different from the Australian/UK cuts. Sirloin here is a tender cut of meat. Apparently yours is less so.

With less tender cuts, I tend to go long and slow. I'd try 12 hours at 55C (131F). If it's too mushy at the end of this, cut the cooking time down to six hours.

I consider sirloin steak to be a relatively tender cut - nowhere near as tender as a rib eye but nothing I would ever consider braising either. Perhaps in the end sirloin and S-V are not a good match. Thanks.

It depends on which part of the sirloin. Tri-tip used to be called bottom sirloin. And, in my opinion, 7 to 9 hours at 133 to 135F gives you a very flavorful and non-chewy steak. Whenever I cook one up, I cook 2 because it is so popular.

I have tried various other sirloin cuts and I am just not a big fan of the texture. When cooked long enough to be truly tender, the mouth-feel is just not as pleasing to me as truly tender cuts like rib-eye. I have tried everything from a few hours to 24 and eventually gave up because the result were not tempting enough to find the magic combination. But that is just my personal preference.

[Rob Babcock]

I've gotten uniformly superb results with sirloin in my SVS, but I start with very good beef.

[Chris Amirault]

Time & temp?

[coz]

Here are my first SV attempts. I waited a couple of months to get a Henkelman sealer. The results were fantastic. I SV'd the shrimp with some olive oil and garlic for 1/2 hour at 138F and the strip at 132.8F for 2 hrs per Nathan's charts (2"). Eveything was terrific. I can't wait to do this again!

[BillyBon]

Kerry, I also have a Green Egg but I prefer to use a charcoal chimney starter to sear small quantities of SV meat. You can set the grid shown in you photo right on top of the chimney can. The chimney also works well for seared tuna.

[rmillman]

If you want a really hot fast sear using a charcoal chimney try leaving the coals in the chimney and using it from above the meat like a salamander. Alston Brown has a video of this technique being used to cook a steak (not with sous vide)

[e_monster]

Browned them up on my Big Green Egg - wasn't as hot as I would have liked.

You will get much better searing with either a torch or a superhot pan (i.e. a pan that has been on high for 10 minutes before putting the meat in. It will take just 30 to 45 to get a nice crust and it won't cook the interior). It is hard to get develop a crust evenly and very quickly over coals. At least that has been my experience.