Can Chefs Cook?

[weinoo]

Who else but the minimalist himself. would make the following statement...

Not surprisingly, Adrià can cook. (What’s surprising is the increasing number of chefs who can’t.)

Yes indeedy, in a recent piece in the Sunday NY Times magazine section, Mark Bittman wrote the above line.

Now, I know quite a few chefs; most of them don't necessarily cook in their restaurants, but they can surely cook. And the chefs he's lucky enough to work with, for instance Ferran, Jean Georges, et.al. can all definitely cook. So about whom must Mr. Bittman be referring? Anyone willing to make any guesses?

[Tri2Cook]

All chefs worthy of the title can cook... not all cooks, even among the good ones, can chef.

[Norm Matthews]

I suppose it would help if they defined "chef" James Beard would bristle if someone called him a chef. At one time the only ones entitled to be called chef were graduates from the Cordon Bleu. It was the title bestowed by them upon graduation as I understand it. Now the term is applied to a head of a commercial kitchen. Even some graduates of any cooking school think of themselves as chefs even though they may not even have a job yet. I know some people who consider themselves as a chef if they teach cooking classes.

I don't know what the state of some culinary institutions are today but I see some signs that make me wonder about the credentials of their graduates. I also wonder how many go to a cooking school thinking the job the get will be glamorous and make them wealthy. What are the motivations of those people?

I know reality cooking shows are unreal but if some of those contestants are really chefs, I wonder at their level of training too.

Perhaps totally unrelated but I was an art teacher. When I got my degree, I had to get a degree in art before I could get certification as a teacher. Now days teachers have to major in education and pick up art classes here and there. Have cooking schools watered down their cooking emphasis for classes in management and nutrition? I don't know.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Norm Matthews (log)

[weinoo]

All chefs worthy of the title can cook... not all cooks, even among the good ones, can chef.

Not according to Bittman, as is the premise of my first post.

I suppose it would help if they defined "chef" James Beard would bristle if someone called him a chef. At one time the only ones entitled to be called chef were graduates from the Cordon Bleu. It was the title bestowed by them upon graduation as I understand it. Now the term is applied to a head of a commercial kitchen.

Yes, I think that defines the term as Bittman would have us understand it.

[gfweb]

Who knows what he meant? It was a cynical line that appealed to his snark-i-tude.

How could one be a leader of a restaurant without having the ability to cook? Oxymoronic.

[GordonCooks]

Considering Chefs in general, there are a few CMC's and CEC's in town working figurehead positions in various food companies and country clubs where this would apply.

I have plenty of first hand experience unfortunately.

Edited July 11, 2011 by GordonCooks (log)

[Honkman]

He gets a lot of praise for his cookbooks which I find very underwhelming and too basic. Reading some interviews/articles with him it sometimes sounds as he sees "real" cooking just on focusing on the basic of cooking like it is described in his books and so for him chefs are getting to elaborate and refined in his cooking definition and are missing or neglect key qualities for him.

[weinoo]

Who knows what he meant? It was a cynical line that appealed to his snark-i-tude.

How could one be a leader of a restaurant without having the ability to cook? Oxymoronic.

Let's see - he cooks with Ferran Adria, Jean Georges, Mario Batali, and a host of others... I think he knows what the term chef means. As do I.

[TheTInCook]

I suppose it depends on what you mean by cook.

If he means working the line, then he may have a point.

[Lisa Shock]

I was always taught that Chef meant Chief, the head of a brigade, like a Fire Department Chief. Generally, one gets to a command position by rising through the ranks and in a kitchen that would mean that the Chef can cook.

I have met people who started their own places and ran around calling themselves chefs while not really having a clue as to what they were doing, but, then again, they were in charge of the team. So, while they may have been incompetent, until the business imploded they were the Head Chef.

[Tri2Cook]

All chefs worthy of the title can cook... not all cooks, even among the good ones, can chef.

Not according to Bittman, as is the premise of my first post.

That's why I included the bit about "worthy of the title". If someone says they are a chef and they truly can't cook then they are incorrect... they are not a chef. A person in charge in a professional kitchen with great leadership skills but no cooking skills would be a train wreck waiting to happen (and it wouldn't take long). I think the Bittman bit is more on the personal end of the spectrum. Maybe he's referring to chefs that don't cook up to his particular standards. That's an entirely different thing than "they can't cook" but maybe he decided to throw that blanket over it for more impact.

[violetfox]

I can't think of a single chef I know who "can't cook." It sounds ridiculous to me. Even if he means working the line - I still can't think of one. I'd be curious to see anyone name a chef who can't cook. Hope you've got a good lawyer, too!

[gfweb]

Who knows what he meant? It was a cynical line that appealed to his snark-i-tude.

How could one be a leader of a restaurant without having the ability to cook? Oxymoronic.

Let's see - he cooks with Ferran Adria, Jean Georges, Mario Batali, and a host of others... I think he knows what the term chef means. As do I.

Ahem.

I too know what he meant by the word "chef".

Lets be civil.

I was questioning what he meant by "can't cook"; as you might have discerned by reading the whole post.

[Tri2Cook]

I was questioning what he meant by "can't cook";

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. I think maybe he's throwing the label "can't cook" on anyone who doesn't cook like he thinks they should.

[weinoo]

The way I read it is that he feels there are any number of chefs who would not be able to cook him a decent meal.

[violetfox]

Well, that's a very different thing than the question you posed of if some chefs "can cook." Someone's opinion of whether anyone, chef or not, can cook them a meal to their standards is not anything like whether somone is capable of professional cooking, is it?

[Edward J]

What's the big fuss?

Listen, this is N. America, we have no standards as to what constitutes a "Cook" and what constitutes a "Chef". No stnadards for education, trade qualifications or even standardized text books for the multitude of Culinary Schools. Media would have us believe that only "Chefs" can prepare good food, while only "cooks" are deemed fit to work in greasy spoons or in fast food kitchens.

What we need is a Judge.

And I have one for you, this Judge is called "Life"

His Honour "Life" decrees the following:

A "Cook" shall be judged by what they put on a plate. In other words, a cook is one who prepares food.

A "Chef" shall be judged by how they run a kitchen. If the food is good, the kithcen clean and organized, and most importantly, the kitchen turns a profit, the "Chef" stays. If not, the "Chef" is out the door fast.

I have worked for many Chefs. Some can really cook well, others not so well, yet they stay. Why? Because they can lead, delegate, and most importantly, turn a profit.

[Shalmanese]

Not surprisingly, Adrià can cook. (What’s surprising is the increasing number of chefs who can’t.)

Yes indeedy, in a recent piece in the Sunday NY Times magazine section, Mark Bittman wrote the above line.

It appears this sentence has been removed from the online version of the article...

[weinoo]

Not surprisingly, Adrià can cook. (What’s surprising is the increasing number of chefs who can’t.)

Yes indeedy, in a recent piece in the Sunday NY Times magazine section, Mark Bittman wrote the above line.

It appears this sentence has been removed from the online version of the article...

I just clicked the link and it's right there - page 2, 3rd to last paragraph.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Just read the article (thanks for the link, Mitch), and I think "increasing" is the key word here.

The article is mainly about Ferran Adrià and how all the experimentation and avantgarde technique is grounded in a basic love and feel for food and good ingredients, and the implication about "the increasing number of chefs who can't" cook, is maybe that the celebrity culture of cuisine, the proliferation of culinary academies, the (perhaps necessary) emphasis on management, marketing and business over food, and the fascination with the whiz-bang science of modernist cuisine, is turning out people in the food industry (I don't think this is about the semantics of "chef" vs. "cook") who lack that basic aesthetic sense and love for food, and all the science in the world isn't going to help them. It's the ol' Platonic knowledge vs. inspiration gambit.

[djyee100]

Not surprisingly, Adrià can cook. (What’s surprising is the increasing number of chefs who can’t.)

I have no idea what that line means. Nor is Bittman forthcoming with his definitions, either for his meaning of "chef" or "cooking." Sometimes people say real cooking involves the creative improvisation with food, not just mechanically following techniques or recipes. Maybe that's what Bittman means. It's impossible to say from the article, though. The Minimalist has been too minimalist with his explanations.

From my own experience, every professional cook and chef I've known can cook, whether that means mastery of technique or creativity with ingredients. When I had a hobby job assisting chefs in cooking classes, sometimes teenagers (15 or 16 years old) showed up for class. They enjoyed working with food and had an intuitive grasp of what to do with ingredients. It was fascinating to observe. Maybe these kids didn't have much learned technique, but if you put some raw ingredients in front of them, they could make something tasty with it. I suspect many professional cooks and chefs start that way at a young age.

[paulraphael]

Bourdain talks about this as a perennial conversation among chefs. As in, "yeah, he's a good chef, but can he cook?"

The idea being, I think, that cooking involves skills that take continued practice, and that too many years in offices, at construction sites, at fund raisers, and on t.v. can dull those skills.

Chefing and cooking are remarkably different skill sets, after all. One has to be a good cook in order to become a chef, but not to remain one.

[heidih]

Bourdain talks about this as a perennial conversation among chefs. As in, "yeah, he's a good chef, but can he cook?"

The idea being, I think, that cooking involves skills that take continued practice, and that too many years in offices, at construction sites, at fund raisers, and on t.v. can dull those skills.

Chefing and cooking are remarkably different skill sets, after all. One has to be a good cook in order to become a chef, but not to remain one.

That makes a lot of sense to me.

[threestars]

Maybe it's a standard thing? That what he mean about that 'can cook' thing is the standard or level of how a chef cook? Just my thoughts.