The Bread Topic (2009 – 2014)

[Blether]

Hey, thanks, Smithy.  It's based on a Delia Smith recipe (she credits Doris Grant), and I've adjusted some as I've gone along.  Further back in the Bread Topic I've posted it as I baked it in a 1lb tin (with a pound and a half of flour).  This time I've used a new "2-kin" tin for the first time - a bit bigger than a 2lb tin, I think - and done as below:

 

1kg Tomizawa wholewheat flour

2/3 hydration i.e. 667ml water

3.7tsp salt

1tsp sugar

1tsp Saf Instant yeast

 

Mix, form into a rectangle, fold a third over past the middle, then the other third on top, and lay in the well-buttered tin, fold-up (ETA: this time I floured the tin, too - well, it being new and all).  I gave it a slow-ish rise at a room temperature of15C or so - about 4 hours (one good thing with wholewheat flour is how good a flavour you get even with a quicker rise than this), with an oiled sheet of plastic (read: plastic bag) over the top of the tin.  In the event, the top stayed below the plastic - I could leave out the oil if I did everything else the same again.  Volume was about double-and-a-half, if that makes sense.  The sugar's just for a kick-start for the yeast, it's not strictly necessary if you're not in a hurry.

 

Until now I'd always mixed with a wooden spoon, but this time I just plunged my hands in and went at it.  Very satisfying, but if you've much hair on your arms you want to wash the dough out sooner rather than later.

 

Sprinkle with flour and bake at 190C (375F) for 40mins in the tin, then a further 10 upside-down on a rack.  My last note says "Good!".  I do love this bread.

 

This particular flour is 13.5% gluten, from Canada, so thanks for that, too.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Blether (log)

[Blether]

Too late now to edit, so having realised it'd probably be online, I'm posting the link for the original recipe here.

[Anna N]

White sandwich bread for my granddaughter's Monday munchies. Must do something about my white balance. This truly is white sandwich bread not yellow sandwich bread.

[DianaM]

Spelt and flaxseed levain. I affectionately call it "the armadillo." All stages of fermentation were completed at room temp; it is a moderately sour bread with a very pleasant crunch and toasted-nuttiness provided by the flaxseed garnish.

Before the pics, I have a couple of questions for you bread pros out there:

-what is the best way to apply a seed garnish to the top of a loaf? (I applied this one with water, and although plenty seeds remain on the crust, many fall off when I handle the bread while slicing etc)

-how to get a thicker crust: less steam, more steam, higher/lower temperature, thicker baking stone etc? I start the bread in a 475 F oven, on a crappy pizza stone, with a shallow pan of water on the bottom of the oven. After 15 min remove the water, and reduce temp to 450 F. Oh, and I also remove the pizza stone, because if I don't the bottom of my loaves remains pale. What variable to change to get a "cracklier," thicker crust?

[Isabelle Prescott]

Its incredible how many seeds stayed on you loaf.  Mine never cling that tenaciously.  Just dump the "fallen angels" onto the butter you've spread onto that delicious slice and eat away...

 

As to crust.  Not being a purist I just spray my loaves with water from a spray bottle after I've slashed them and immediately slide them onto the heated pizza stone and bake at 450 degrees for 10 minutes.  Then open the oven and spritz them again with the spray bottle, turn down the temp to 425 and bake for another 20 minutes.  Take a look and decide whether to add another 5-10 minutes or not to the baking.  All depends on how big the loaf is and how I've shaped it.  I gave up on the water in a pan to create steam and nearly destroyed the bottom of the oven of my Viking range throwing ice cubes in as some people suggested.  

 

Bake all the bread I consume from a starter that began over 5 years ago and is still going strong.

[Smithy]

 

Hey, thanks, Smithy.  It's based on a Delia Smith recipe (she credits Doris Grant), and I've adjusted some as I've gone along.  Further back in the Bread Topic I've posted it as I baked it in a 1lb tin (with a pound and a half of flour).  This time I've used a new "2-kin" tin for the first time - a bit bigger than a 2lb tin, I think - and done as below:

 

1kg Tomizawa wholewheat flour

2/3 hydration i.e. 667ml water

3.7tsp salt

1tsp sugar

1tsp Saf Instant yeast

 

Mix, form into a rectangle, fold a third over past the middle, then the other third on top, and lay in the well-buttered tin, fold-up (ETA: this time I floured the tin, too - well, it being new and all).  I gave it a slow-ish rise at a room temperature of15C or so - about 4 hours (one good thing with wholewheat flour is how good a flavour you get even with a quicker rise than this), with an oiled sheet of plastic (read: plastic bag) over the top of the tin.  In the event, the top stayed below the plastic - I could leave out the oil if I did everything else the same again.  Volume was about double-and-a-half, if that makes sense.  The sugar's just for a kick-start for the yeast, it's not strictly necessary if you're not in a hurry.

 

Until now I'd always mixed with a wooden spoon, but this time I just plunged my hands in and went at it.  Very satisfying, but if you've much hair on your arms you want to wash the dough out sooner rather than later.

 

Sprinkle with flour and bake at 190C (375F) for 40mins in the tin, then a further 10 upside-down on a rack.  My last note says "Good!".  I do love this bread.

 

This particular flour is 13.5% gluten, from Canada, so thanks for that, too.

 

 

Blether, thank you for the recipe, as well as the link in your following post.  One question (only one, at the moment):  why does the fold go into the top (exposed part) of the pan?  I'd have been inclined to tuck it into the bottom.

 

Spelt and flaxseed levain. I affectionately call it "the armadillo." All stages of fermentation were completed at room temp; it is a moderately sour bread with a very pleasant crunch and toasted-nuttiness provided by the flaxseed garnish.

Before the pics, I have a couple of questions for you bread pros out there:

-what is the best way to apply a seed garnish to the top of a loaf? (I applied this one with water, and although plenty seeds remain on the crust, many fall off when I handle the bread while slicing etc)

image.jpg

image.jpg

 

I'll let the experts address your questions.  I just want to admire the pattern made by the seed coating and the slashes.  Beautiful!

[Blether]

Blether, thank you for the recipe, as well as the link in your following post.  One question (only one, at the moment):  why does the fold go into the top (exposed part) of the pan?  I'd have been inclined to tuck it into the bottom.

 

 

I'm sure you're right - I think it looks good this way, is all.  The longer rise subdued it and what's left doesn't show from the angle of the photo - here's one of the previous versions.

[Anna N]

Not often is my plain white sandwich bread able to carry a tune but these two are still singing! I blame Blether for my baking task this morning! I just had to look up his recipe on Delia's site and got suckered by her white bread recipe.

[JohnT]

Blether, just out of interest, what type of oven are you using. I ask this as I use a Grandi Forni convection oven and would like to try your recipe but need to know if I need to cut my temperature by 20 degrees. The oven I have is found here http://www.anvilworld.com/product.htm?productID=94

I always have to adjust either the temperature or baking time when doing any baking. John.

[Blether]

Heh heh. Sorry about that, Anna. It does look good, though! Which of Del-bo's recipes is that? How is it different from your usual ?

 

Hi, John. I'm using a National NE-J1. It's a microwave/electric oven combo, that is, it does both, not that I use both for bread. No convection. I bake the wholewheat (and my own white loaves) at 190C. Delia Smith has her "plain and simple white bread" online baking at 230C. There's some leeway there, isn't there?

 

Have you baked much bread ?  You can always protect the top with some baking paper if the colour develops too quickly. Ideally for the wholewheat, to my mind, you want flour that's still a little coarse and retains visible pieces of germ.  I've made bread with Indian atta flour - whole wheat ground fine & uniformly - and it makes a good loaf but not as good.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Blether (log)

[Anna N]

Heh heh. Sorry about that, Anna. It does look good, though! Which of Del-bo's recipes is that? How is it different from your usual ?

 

Hi, John. I'm using a National NE-J1. It's a microwave/electric oven combo, that is, it does both, not that I use both for bread. No convection. I bake the wholewheat (and my own white loaves) at 190C. Delia Smith has her "plain and simple white bread" online baking at 230C. There's some leeway there, isn't there?

 

Have you baked much bread ?  You can always protect the top with some baking paper if the colour develops too quickly. Ideally for the wholewheat, to my mind, you want flour that's still a little coarse and retains visible pieces of germ.  I've made bread with Indian atta flour - whole wheat ground fine & uniformly - and it makes a good loaf but not as good.

It was her plain and simple. It calls for bread flour vs a/p, golden caster sugar and no milk or fat of any kind and is baked at 450F vs 350 F. My son-in-law and granddaughter have just devoured most of a loaf! And when a friend dropped into their home unexpectedly, he finished it off!

[JohnT]

Blether et al, yes, I have been baking for a number of years and do a few loaves a week for own consumption. I normally do a 50/50 loaf of 500g wholewheat and 500g white bread flour @ 70% hydration. this gives me either one large loaf and one small loaf or three small loaves - all pan breads. I have not yet mastered posting on this forum but will attempt now. This one was baked this morning in a 100 x 100 x 300mm pan. There was another that went to the young lady who helps me once a week.

 

The completed loar

Showing the crumb

 

I am not sure if I have to resize photographs here or if it is automatically done when posting. I did a resize before posting, just in case. John

[Blether]

That's a handsome loaf of bread, John.

 

As for photos, over a few years of changing cameras I've posted the different images as they are and the forum seems to have coped.  i may be missing something, but there's always the edit function, and the "preview" option these days, too.

 

I really liked the look of your oven, too.  Do you use the steam function for your bread ?  Any other special facilities that the oven has ?  What's your approach to the rise ?

[JohnT]

That's a handsome loaf of bread, John.

As for photos, over a few years of changing cameras I've posted the different images as they are and the forum seems to have coped. i may be missing something, but there's always the edit function, and the "preview" option these days, too.

I really liked the look of your oven, too. Do you use the steam function for your bread ? Any other special facilities that the oven has ? What's your approach to the rise ?

Thanks for the complement.

The oven has a steam function that is plumbed into the municipal water supply via a charcoal filter to try and eliminate the chlorine in the water. It takes 600 x 400mm commercial trays. I use it mostly for producing desserts, cakes and biscuits for coffee shops and restaurants. I use the steam injection for bread only. We have a very mild climate so I can prove and do my rising naturally almost all year round.

On the 50/50 wholewheat/bread flour loaf I mix the dough for 4 minutes, rest for 10 minutes and then mix again for 4 minutes, all in a bowl mixer with hook. I then remove the hook and let the dough rise for just over an hour in the mixing bowl. I then plonk it onto my counter and stretch it out and roll it up to get an even roll, then cut it for the pans, put it in the pans and let it rise again for half an hour to three quarters of an hour before it is put in the oven and baked for 40 minutes @ 180C. The flour is all stone ground from a small mill up-country. I do add 2 teaspoons of salt, a tablespoon of honey and a tablespoon of sunflower oil to the mix, with 10g instant dry yeast.

I have never tried making a sourdough or breads using a bigga, but will one day when time allows for me to experiment a bit. A few years ago I was given a digital book (PDF) by Daniel T. DiMuzio called Bread Baking, An Artisans Perspective, which I found quite good in solving some of the problems I had when I started baking bread. Happy baking, John.

Edited April 18, 2014 by JohnT (log)

[weinoo]

Yep. We typically bought 1-2 loaves a week but have stopped since I started baking. I can't replicate most stuff, of course, but for daily bread, we're set. 

So here's a question, and it smacks at the heart of why I don't bake much bread any more.

 

In terms of cost - how much do those two loaves cost you at the bakery?

 

And how much do the two loaves cost you to make at home?  Ingredients, mise, actual work, cleanup, opportunity cost, etc.

[Blether]

So here's a question...

 

I'll have a go at answering this.  Of course you can get cheap & easy at KFC, and yet here we are on eGullet.  Hey, you can get cheap & easy at my place, but that's a whole other story.

 

Partly my answer's specific to where I am.  I can't get a square 100% wholewheat loaf here in Japan.  Years ago when I was commuting to a fancy office building, I was a regular enough customer at the bakery/bistro there that they were good enough to bake one especially for me.  They sell a 100% wholewheat loaf that's a boule of about 5-6" diameter.  They were willing to do a pan version to advance order if I bought three batch loaves at once, the length of their standard pan - maybe 18" in total ?  Their rise was bigger than mine in the w/w loaf just upthread, and they charged me JPY420 per loaf, JPY1,260 total.  I'm guessing they used around the same amount of flour as my smaller loaf does, about 1kg.  That 1kg of flour costs me JPY380, so I'm at about 1/3 cost in ingredients, baking it myself.  (In the winter, the oven heat cuts the gas heating bill.  Summer, pay to heat the place up & to cool it down again).

 

Next up, I can get good white breads here, if I go to a proper bakery.  They're expensive, too, but it isn't about price.  If I wanted to eat cheaply it's hard to beat the convenience store / supermarket standard CBP whipped-not-risen expanded-polystyrene foodstuff.  These used to be JPY200-250, IIRC, but since the advent of the 100yen shop, you can get them all over the place now for about that much.

 

Bread is the one thing that's most likely to force me out to go food shopping if I run out of it (next most likely is maybe milk).  There are marginal and opportunity costs there, too - in the time I spend schlepping out to the store, I can make a loaf at home; and flour lasts forever, compared with fresh bread.  Of course the time I need to be present at home for the baking is longer, and I need to co-ordinate the rising time.  Most of all, I get really good bread, I'm not stuck with the 10am-7pm hours of the proper bakeries, and incidentally I beat them on cost.

 

I like making food, same as I like sailing.  I could just as well spend a day at the weekend standing at the dock for all the practical use it is.  Nor can you put a price on filling your home with the smell of bread baking.

 

Light white pan loaf: Yukichikara flour from Iwate prefecture, 11% gluten / 0.48% ash; single in-pan 6-hour rise at room temp of maybe 18-19C, baked at 190C for 40 minutes altogether.  400g of flour in a 2lb loaf tin; 71% hydration:

 

Edited April 20, 2014 by Blether (log)

[rotuts]

weinoo

 

you missed one 'key' item on your 'expense' ledger for home made bread :

 

you can't 'buy' more effective 'psychotherapy', 'physical therapy' 'aroma therapy'  ' #(RY#$ therapy'

 

even if you were a Trazzillon Air

[janeer]

weinoo

 

you missed one 'key' item on your 'expense' ledger for home made bread :

 

you can't 'buy' more effective 'psychotherapy', 'physical therapy' 'aroma therapy'  ' #(RY#$ therapy'

 

even if you were a Trazzillon Air

 

After sitting watching the Twin Tours fall on 9/11 (I was in Philadelphia at the time), I walked into my kitchen and made bread

[Anna N]

4-hour baguettes again. Need to work on my shaping and slashing but my house smells just fine thanks!

[Anna N]

Sandwich bread for Number 2 son. Baked in long 4 1/2" x 13 " bread tin. Just an experiment.

[Anna N]

Just practicing shaping and slashing. Have the loan of a lame. Think I have the confidence down but need lots of work on the skill.

[Anna N]

White sandwich bread for my usual Monday visitor (granddaughter). I will make her salmon salad sandwiches topped with sliced cucumber for her dinner and send her home with the rest of the loaf for her school lunches. Surprising how much joy a simple loaf of bread can bring to both the giver and the recipient.

[rotuts]

""  salmon salad sandwiches topped with sliced cucumber for her dinner ""

 

Yum !

 

"""   Surprising how much joy a simple loaf of bread can bring to both the giver and the recipient.  """

 

[lindag]

image.jpg

Sandwich bread for Number 2 son. Baked in long 4 1/2" x 13 " bread tin. Just an experiment.

Did you, by any chance, use a pan de mie without the lid? I don't run across this size pan anywhere else.

[DianaM]

Sourdough honey and whole grain spelt bread.

To make this, I adapted for sourdough a commercial yeast recipe from Hamelman's book. I figured since I am feeding the culture daily, might as well make good use of it. The whole grain flour is 80% of the total flour in the recipe. It is quite a hearty bread, and I found that I like it better: a) the next day; b) toasted; c) with a strongly-flavored spread or topping, like home-made kumquat marmalade or one of the balcanic vegetable spreads (zacuska, baba ghanouj, adjvar etc).