Savory Marshmallows

[gfron1]

HERE in the quite lengthy marshmallow topic, I posed the question of creating a savory marshmallow. That's tough since a marshmallow is typically hot sugar and gelatin, but I'm doing it for the TGRWT challenge (typically I do my experimenting very privately, but in this case I'll do it more publicly).

So, I'm trying to make a smoked salmon marshmallow to go with a historic Parisian hot chocolate recipe. I've learned to trust TGRWT's flavor pairings (for the most part).

I cowardly anonymous eGer sent me a PM suggesting something utilizing egg whites like a salmon gelee mixed in with a salmon mousse. That got me thinking about the pink fluffy stuff we eat at Thanksgiving - jello mixed in with whipped cream. I could do something similar, but stabilize it with extra gelatin. Or I could create something that gets whipped in a turbowhip or something like that. Maybe baking powder comes in to play - I'm thinking of seafoam and how it reacts by aerating before it sets. So many ideas...any thoughts?

[JeanneCake]

OK, OK, I'm the coward who didn't want to risk public flaming for an idea that would fall flat. Literally The last time I made marshmallows, I burned out my KA 5 qt and my trusty older KA 6 qt so it's been a year since I made marshmallows and I am way out of practice. I hate people who are armchair chefs who spout about how something could work with no practical experience as to how it would work.

So let me get into the armchair to continue this post....

I love the idea of a salmon marshmallow. What I love about a marshmallow is the airy feel so I first thought of salmon mousse, but not all that dairy (the whipped cream). Then I thought about how to make a salmon gelee and would adding beaten egg whites make it more billow-y to approximate a marshmallow.

I have no idea what this pink stuff is Rob speaks of. The only pink on our Tday table is the cranberry sauce

[etalanian]

I think you could make a salmon marshmallow. After the marshmallow has finished beating, fold in some pureed salmon (cooked or smoked) that has been lightened with beaten egg whites.

To give more of a punch to the flavor, use a salmon broth instead of water in the cooked portion of the marshmallow (I call this the "base") and in the gelatin-softening mixture (I call this the "bloom").

You have to be careful not to deflate the marshmallow with the fat in the salmon. The more flavor you put into the base and bloom, the less salmon you will have to fold in at the end.

Eileen

Edited February 22, 2009 by etalanian (log)

[sugarseattle]

yes, i think adding a smoked salmon puree in place of a fruit puree during the bloom would do you right. i don't think the fat will interfere, as long as you don't use an egg white marshmallow recipe.

ha ha, imagine saying that same first sentence on the subway to see how folks around you react!

[gfron1]

Great suggestions - what about keeping it savory? That strategy would still involve lots of sugar or isomalt.

[mkayahara]

What do you view as the defining features of a marshmallow? I'm trying to think of whether marshmallows mean anything but spongy + sweet to me. Once you take out the sweet, you're just left with spongy. I wonder whether you could just make a smoked salmon gelee (with gelatin), whipping it as it cools, and produce a similar texture. The only real problem I see with that is that you'd have to serve it cold, but with fish in there, you'd probably want to serve it cold anyway.

Edit:

This is sort of what I had in mind, but of course I'd forgotten that it would simply melt in your mouth, so it probably wouldn't give you the sponginess you'd need. Sorry 'bout that!

Edited February 23, 2009 by mkayahara (log)

[etalanian]

It wouldn't be a marshmallow if it didn't have sugar; that's part of what gives it the great texture it has.

I have made marshmallows using all sorts of veggies: roasted red peppers, caramelized onions, carrots, and so on. I've also made them with savory herbs like rosemary and basil. Think chutney, relish. Salmon is often served with a sweet relish or glaze or side dish. I think, with the right spices and flavors, it could taste really good.

It's a good suggestion to add the salmon to the bloom.

Eileen

[chiantiglace]

whatever you do, if you don't make it from predominately gelatin, its not a marshmallow. Your aeration needs to be from the gelatin. I think trying to create a marshamallow without sugar is as plausible as making a buerre blanc without butter, it just doesn't make much sense.

[CanadianBakin']

I don't see a problem with sugar and salmon. Here in BC, salmon is widely available in many forms. One of those forms is Candied Salmon. Here's a link to a recipe for it that might give you some more ideas. It's the second recipe down. I haven't tried it but it shows just how much honey and brown sugar is used and that said, maybe you could use at least some brown sugar in the marshmallows.

[Tri2Cook]

So Rob, I tried the no-sugar frankenmallow idea I mentioned in the other thread and, nope, not even close. It looks more like a spongecake. It's stable, not sticky, easy to slice, flavorful and not at all a marshmallow. The texture is a tender gel full of bubbles that collapse and disappear in the mouth. I did this test by mixing 200 ml water with 100 ml frank's hot sauce and thickening it with 1.2g (.4%) xanthan. I then sheared in 3.75g (1.25%) SGA16 methylcellulose. I hydrated 14g gelatin powder in 80ml water and started whipping the base mixture in the kitchenaid on high. When it began to thicken enough to mound slightly I melted the gelatin with a couple quick zaps in the microwave and streamed it into the base. I then let it crank on high until it increased about 4x in volume, spread it in a pan and tossed it in the cooler. It lost almost half of its volume before setting and what you see below is the result. Nothing even remotely similar to what you wanted... but I had fun with it and I can think of uses (with different flavors) for what I did end up with. So thanks for inspiring me to play.

[gfron1]

A frankemallow - hah!

Okay, okay, so there's a reason that I titled this marshmallow-like and pulled the discussion out of the marshmallow topic. I don't care if the final creation is actually a marshmallow. What I want is for the diner to pick up an object that feels like a marshmallow, and then to have them drop it into their hot chocolate which would then melt it like a marshmallow. Jeannecake's idea still seems to hold the most viability to me, but I also keep thinking about the seafoam process. And again, I still think an uber stabilized whipped gelatin cube could get me there as long as the gelatin didn't slime up the chocolate.

[Abra]

Amidst all this technical discussion, am I the only one gagging over the idea of salmon with chocolate?

[MikeJ]

Salmon glazed with maple syrup is another popular combination in the Pacific NW, maybe you could substitute some maple syrup for the sugar in the recipe.

[Lior]

Amidst all this technical discussion, am I the only one gagging over the idea of salmon with chocolate?

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no!!!

[LittleIsland]

Amidst all this technical discussion, am I the only one gagging over the idea of salmon with chocolate?

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no!!!

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nothing like a nice mug of fishy hot chocolate just before bed (no disrespect intended Rob... just that I am not a huge salmon fan and the thought of this... erm... well...) Very interested to see how it turns out!

[gfron1]

No disrespect taken. I know how disgusting it sounds, but I can't tell you how many TGRWT challenges have resulted in really surprisingly good combos. My guess is that most participants in this month's challenge will do a salmon with some form of savory chocolate. When I participate in the challenges I try to push in the least obvious way because I really want to test the theory behind the challenges...hence salmon marshmallow hot chocolate.

[abooja]

Salmon glazed with maple syrup is another popular combination in the Pacific NW, maybe you could substitute some maple syrup for the sugar in the recipe.

I was just going to suggest this myself.

[chiantiglace]

maybe salmon and chocolate isn't the worst combo, but liquid salmon is just plain bad.

[Sethro]

Since gelatin+agar gels are stable at ambient temperatures, I think that may be the best synthesis for the job. You would probably want some locust bean in there too to temper give elasticity to the agar and block the "brittle" effect.

I really think what make it complicated is the inclusion of a fat base. I think using a salmon "water" would be much easier. Maybe infuse the smoked salmon into water,then par-freeze and skim off the fat. The combine the water with agar at 1% and LBG at .5%. Boil, cool slightly, add the gelatin (not sure on the %, I don't ever do gelatin foams) and whip. It will definitely set immediately once it cools below 80 degrees. I have no idea if it will be properly spongy, but you can obtain a wide variety of textures and gelling strengths with agar and LBG.

[Adamsm83]

Interesting idea you have here.

What if you were to make a thick salmon flavored cream and bloom gelatin in to that, From there you could put it into a foamer and just fill a half pan with salmon foam and place in the fridge. Once it sets you might be able to cut the desired shapes. This is just thinking out loud though, but good luck.

PS. On el bulli's textures site you can buy a gelatin that you can hold hot which could make for any number of great ideas.

[Mr Ryan Santos]

or maybe you could also take some influnce from this:

idea in foods peeps create a szechuan pepper corn

http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2008-11/...omy-marshmallow

R.

[pastrygirl]

I ate parmesan marshmallows at el bulli in 2005 that were really light and melt-in-the-mouth and way cool. They might be in the cookbook.

Otherwise, I'm thinking a foam (via isi NO2 canister) might be a good direction, maybe with dry ice involved? If you have a reasonable amount of gelatin, you can get a moderately stable foam, but then you'll have to set it quickly. Too much gelatin and it sets up in the canister, or you can play with the canister temp I guess.

Chocolate goes with almost everything, haven't tried it with salmon but now of course I have to. First thing Monday morning! I did make a salmon ice cream once, served with candied salmon skin and a bit of roe. The guy I made it for liked it, but then again, he'll eat anything.

[mkayahara]

I ate parmesan marshmallows at el bulli in 2005 that were really light and melt-in-the-mouth and way cool.  They might be in the cookbook.

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I don't know why I didn't think of this. There's a recipe for pine nut marshmallows in A Day at El Bulli that have no sugar in them at all, just milk, gelatin and pine nut oil. I'm sure the actual El Bulli cookbooks could offer similar inspiration.

[gfron1]

I gave in due to time constraints and made a traditional salmon marshmallow tonight that is setting up right now. I'd appreciate the el bulli recipe if someone wouldn't mind PMing me. I'll post the sweet results this weekend.

[MikeJ]

Oddly enough, before I joined these forums I don't think I'd ever heard the phrase "traditional salmon marshmallow."